Holly s**t - Germany reinstates controls at Austrian border

[antimatter]

"The decision means that Germany has effectively exited temporarily from the Schengen system."

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/13/germany-to-close-borders-exit-schengen-emergency-measures

[PigletJohn]

IIRC, the Schengen scheme includes the right to suspend free travel if circumstances demand it.

Which they probably do.

[IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou]

Well, that tallies well with the "Refugees Welcome" banners and statements from the German Government.

Maybe the UK stance isn't as unrealistic as Merkel & many MNers would like to think.

Uncontrolled immigration is a mistake....

[PigletJohn]

I have heard they went for it because so many other countries refused to take a share.

[Lweji]

It makes sense to me, actually.
They have declared they are prepared to receive many thousands, but do they really want tens of thousands going in at the same time when they are not ready to support refugees properly?

I hope the border control is mostly to register and properly deal with incoming people.

There is another important factor. Germany is likely (haven't checked) to be receiving families, young people, possibly elderly people. In summary, most of the vulnerable, which would just be trampled by fit men (and women) through an open border.

[Lweji]

Also, the difference in relation to the UK is the number of people each government is prepared to accept.

[shoelovingfinn]

No country can take refugees endlessly. Germany has done better than many (!!) . Slightly worried where this all is going to end.

[antimatter]

Try to control impact of thousands of people arriving at your borders!

Had they not accepted them there would have been close to 100000 people on the border somewhere. I can't even fathom where they would be today (and that's just last weeks numbers).

The problem is that those issues weren't looked into months ago.
I haven't found the answer what started migration via Kos/Lesvos this summer in large numbers .

[antimatter]

I just found this quoted on FB:

www.euractiv.de/sections/eu-innenpolitik/bayern-ruft-bundeslaender-fluechtlingskrise-um-hilfe-317260

[DadWasHere]

Their ability to reinstate border controls depends markedly on the attitudes of people to be so 'controlled'. The only way you stop people walking right past your 'control' is to either convince them they should not by reason, of their own free will, by blockade if that fails and you are able to, or by force as last resort.

[Igneococcus]

I'm not at all surprised. I follow the German media and a few German talkboards closely and all my three siblings are in some way job-related involved in the current crisis and it was clear that Germany would have to stop letting people in in those numbers in such a short time.
I really wouldn't want to be the one of the Bundespolizei who has to try to enforce this now. It is going to be a terrible mess, I fear.

[Idefix]

It was my understanding that they can slow the flow if they are not able to process the refugees safely.

Locally to me is a refugee processing station (I am based in NRW) it a huge centre. When I have been to drop off clothing the bulk of the refugees seem to be family groups.

The place was literally heaving with people and it is only meant to be 2-3 day stop before more permanent accommodation is allocated.

[ender]

Germany is likely (haven't checked) to be receiving families, young people, possibly elderly people. In summary, most of the vulnerable, which would just be trampled by fit men (and women) through an open border.
Lweji - why do you think this?
My understanding is that those that reach Germany after the long trek through Greece, Hungary etc are likely to be the strongest.
The more vulnerable/those who can't physically manage the journey stay behind in the refugee camps.

[Lweji]

Exactly, I don't think Germany wants to receive necessarily those who can reach their borders. But those who need the most to be supported.

[Igneococcus]

I don't think Germany has any control who is coming into the country at the moment despite the border controls or where people are going. Today, about 180 refugees disappeared from a train heading to Berlin, someone pulled the emergency brake and they left the train, presumed to be trying to go to Sweden.

[PatrickPolarBear]

The news I read in the German language media suggests the decision is down to a combination of security concerns, as it appeared some refugees were not eligible for asylum but because of the overwhelming numbers were not being checked and processed correctly. Also the Bavarian Ministerpräsident who is CSU and thus supposed to be an ally of Merkel's CDU party was getting irate at the lack of coordination and resources offered to his state to deal with the influx. They are running out of beds and temporary accommodation already in Bavaria and got 13,000 refugees in one day recently.

It's just not sustainable to have an open border policy. Long term what needs to happen is humanitarian intervention in Syria to improve conditions there and in the neighboring refugee camps.

[Idefix]

What I have seen locally are a mix of ages and gender, however many of them appear to have been on the wealthier end of the spectrum lots of I phone 6s expensive clothing/footwear and huge wads of cash when they are in our local lidl. I get the impression to get out they have needed a fair bit of cash.
This image seems to be causing a lot of bad feeling as according to my cleaner "it shows they don't need our help/less deserving of help".
Tried to discuss with her that if she had to leave in a rush she would undoubtedly want to take what she could...think it falls on deaf ears.

There continues to be many clashes between Kurds and Turks in many cities, I think on the radio they a Kurdish young man had had his throat cut on Saturday.

Feels very unsettled here.

[BMW6]

I think Germany was well-meaning but very foolish to issue the open invitation.

Wel, they are taking up your offer - not just Syrians, and hundreds of thousands of them - I believe it will be millions actually.

Now borders are being reinstated, but where are those in Hungary supposed to go? If they are allowed to progress to Germany, of course more will start the journey (and many will die on the way).

The more Europe absorb, the more will come.

[Igneococcus]

I agree it was foolish but I don't think many people outside Germany understand just how much many Germans worry about what the rest of the world thinks of them. I believe this has at least played some part in some decisions during the last few weeks.
I have no idea how this situation could be resolved. I see there are even tents on the Odeons Platz in Munich, the Octoberfest is starting soon. I pity the people who have to police Munich in the next weeks, or anywhere near the borders.

[BMW6]

I understand completely why Germany is so worried about their Humanitarian stance.

On the other hand it seems Germany is now telling other EU member states what they should do - and are threatening to withdraw EU subsidies if they don't do as they are told........

I have wondered for years - who voted Germany as "boss" of the EU??? That's a really good way of pissing off other member states with memories of the last time Germany wanted to govern "New Europe" (and I can't help but notice France is up their ass again)

[Igneococcus]

I'm not defending the German politics of the last weeks (or even wrt Europe over the last years) just trying to explain some of it.
I can understand why the other European countries are pissed off, I would be too and I'm very worried about what is going to happen now.
The mood in the various talkboards has changed very quickly during the last couple of days, there have been fights between posters who live in different European countries on a parenting board where I have been a member for more than 10 years, not differences of opinions but personal attacks which I haven't seen there like this before.
We are going to Germany for half term in October, Bavaria but the very North of it, it will be an interesting visit.

[PatrickPolarBear]

There needs to be proper international multilateral decision-making here. Germany / Merkel made a unilateral decision on the refugee crisis, throwing it out there that they would take possibly 800,000 migrants this year alone. This only encouraged more people to chance the dangerous journey across the Mediterranean so there are more and more people building up trying to find new routes to Germany all the time.

The response to something as complex as the refugee crisis has to be coordinated across national govts because the decision of one country affects all the others bordering it. To me, the utter chaos in response to the refugee crisis is a sign that the EU is falling apart at the seams with no real leadership. Germany is doing what it wants but so is everyone else.

[TheNewStatesman]

Spot on, Patrick.

" understand completely why Germany is so worried about their Humanitarian stance.

On the other hand it seems Germany is now telling other EU member states what they should do - and are threatening to withdraw EU subsidies if they don't do as they are told........

I have wondered for years - who voted Germany as "boss" of the EU??? That's a really good way of pissing off other member states with memories of the last time Germany wanted to govern "New Europe" (and I can't help but notice France is up their ass again)"

It's the "German Problem" again. Ever since Germany was created as a united nation in 1870 or whenever it was, there has been an awkwardness caused by the fact that Germany is just big enough to kinda dominate Europe, BUT not so very much bigger that it can completely and utterly dominate. So there is always this odd tension.

Germany itself is a nice country for the most part, but I don't know if the rest of Europe is going to take kindly to its instructions about the migrants/refugees, however kindly Germany's intentions are.

[ender]

Merkel has really messed up. She made a unilateral decision by inviting refugees/migrants in without consulting the rest of the EU or considering how it might affect the German population.
People are understandably worried about what is happening but afraid to speak out in case they're accused of being right wing/Nazis
I think this is happening with the UK media as well, especially BBC and Ch4 news.

[hiddenhome2]

SIL lives in Munich and she says there are dozens of groups of young men going around. She says it's quite intimidating and it no longer feels as safe as it did.

There was also an outcry by the incomers because they didn't have internet access when they arrived at their place - a sports hall I think she said. I thought refugees would just be glad that they'd reached a safe place.