Pope on climate change, clash with GOP, elite ecstatic, huge implications

(8 Posts)
claig Mon 15-Jun-15 23:50:16

The Pope has really put the cat among the pigeons. Where this will lead is anyone's guess. How will American Republican Conservatives see this? They have accepted a lot, but is "climate change" the straw that will break the camel's back?

The elite is ecstatic, think tanks are toasting the elite, modernisers are doing the mambo, charidees are celebrating, liberals are laughing, the Guardian is galloping with joy and meanwhile there is stunned silence among traditionalists and many US Republicans. What on earth is going on and where could this all lead?

"Angry US Republicans tell Pope Francis to ‘stick with his job and we’ll stick with ours’

The US right will launch pre-emptive attacks on the pope’s stance on climate change

Leading figures on the American right are launching a series of pre-emptive attacks on the pope before this week’s encyclical, hoping to prevent a mass conversion of the climate change deniers who have powered the corps of the conservative movement for more than a decade.
...
A majority of Republicans in Congress deny the existence of climate change and oppose regulations to cut greenhouse gas emissions. Among the ultra-conservative Tea Party set, climate change scepticism reaches epidemic proportions, about 80% of those on the far right, according to the Pew research centre. Only one of the nearly 20 Republicans running for president will acknowledge the danger of climate change, another long-shot contender, Lindsey Graham.
...
“I think it is very hard to discredit the pope,” he said. “This completely destroys most of their arguments that climate change is not real, that it is funded by a “mass UN conspiracy”, that it is all to do with Al Gore and not to do with people of world.”

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/13/climate-change-conservatives-catholic-teaching

This has huge implications.

This is from a magazine back in January.

"The Republican Party's war with Pope Francis has finally started"
...
It looks like 2015 is shaping up to be the year when Catholic conservatives declare war on Pope Francis.
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But most Catholic conservatives have held their tongues, working to put a positive spin on papal pronouncements that many of them find increasingly alarming. (Sure the pope’s denunciations of capitalism are galling, but listen to his passionate attacks on abortion! Yes, Francis is far too nice to gays, but he gave such an inspiring speech on the last day of the Synod!)

So far, the tactic has worked — at least until now.

Interestingly, the decisive provocation appears to be the pope’s forthcoming encyclical on the environment."

theweek.com/articles/532784/republican-partys-warwith-pope-francishas-finally-started

The author says

"Looks like the honeymoon is finally over.

The question is why now — and why over the environment of all things?

The answer, I think, is that the environment, in itself, has very little to do with it. The problem is simply that Francis has broken from too many elements in the Republican Party platform."

....

I think that climate change is absolutely fundamental. Lots of traditional conservatives don't believe the elite on climate change. This could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. This is about belief and whether traditionalists believe the elite.

claig Mon 15-Jun-15 23:53:39

"Only one of the nearly 20 Republicans running for president will acknowledge the danger of climate change, another long-shot contender, Lindsey Graham."

grin

He doesn't stand a chance. The people don't believe the elite.

claig Mon 15-Jun-15 23:55:51

“This completely destroys most of their arguments that climate change is not real, that it is funded by a “mass UN conspiracy”, that it is all to do with Al Gore and not to do with people of world.”

What on earth is the Pope thinking? This is fundamental. This is about belief. This is about the elite.

DougalTheCheshireCat Mon 15-Jun-15 23:59:47

I bloody love Pope Francis. He's a proper radical and hallelujah fir that.

You put it, though, like he was some Republican Party nominee who's turned out to be a disappointment? Which I'm fairly sure he isn't.

I don't know a lot about American denominational differences either, but I gathered that your average Tea Party-er was an evangelical and thus pretty skeptical of Catholics anyway.

I'm sure the Pope doesn't give two hoots what his views on climate change do to the Republican Party. If it shakes them up: great. But there's plenty of other audiences to address to, in Europe, China, BRICS etc.

It's a bit like calling the U.S. Baseball league the World Series. Very myopic. There's a whole world out there. The GOP is just one small part of the POpe's audience, even if they think they're the be all and end all.

claig Tue 16-Jun-15 00:12:08

I don't know a lot about American denominational differences either, but I gathered that your average Tea Party-er was an evangelical and thus pretty skeptical of Catholics anyway.'

I don't know, you may be right there.

"I'm sure the Pope doesn't give two hoots what his views on climate change do to the Republican Party. If it shakes them up: great. But there's plenty of other audiences to address to, in Europe, China, BRICS etc."

I think you are wrong there. I think this is a huge political mistake. The people who really believe in the traditional values of the Church etc are mainly traditional conservatives. To go against their beliefs is amazing in its implications. Liberals and lefties and luvvies and modernisers do not believe in the Church as much as conservatives and to alienate conservatives is a disaster. It is a dream ome true for the elite and their modernisers, but its implications are enormous for the Church.

Pat Buchanan, a US real conservative, is a Catholic and he will represent the views of many influential conservative Catholics.

This is Pat before this bombshell news on the elite's pet project of "catastrophic climate change". What Pat will have to say about this latest news doesn't bear thinking about.

buchanan.org/blog/price-papal-popularity-7042

claig Tue 16-Jun-15 00:28:37

The issue of climate change is core to the beliefs of many conservatives. they just don't believe the elite, the Establishment, the great and the good, the politicians and the paid for puppets. That is why itis "climate change" that could be the issue that breaks the camel's back. No amount of handwringing philanthrpoists like Tony Blair or charidee chuggers can change the minds of millions of conservative voters on the issue because it is now part of teh culture wars since it is about belief and core values.

Here is an article by someone who believes in climate change and the elite's story, but he unserstands how core a concept it really is in the culture wars.

"Climate Science as Culture War

The public debate around climate change is no longer about science—it’s about values, culture, and ideology.
...
Today, there is no doubt that a scientific consensus exists on the issue of climate change.
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And yet a social consensus on climate change does not exist. Surveys show that the American public’s belief in the science of climate change has mostly declined over the past five years, with large percentages of the population remaining skeptical of the science
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To understand the processes by which a social consensus can emerge on climate change, we must understand that people’s opinions on this and other complex scientific issues are based on their prior ideological preferences, personal experience, and values—all of which are heavily influenced by their referent groups and their individual psychology. Physical scientists may set the parameters for understanding the technical aspects of the climate debate, but they do not have the final word on whether society accepts or even understands their conclusions. The constituency that is relevant in the social debate goes beyond scientific experts. And the processes by which this constituency understands and assesses the science of climate change go far beyond its technical merits. We must acknowledge that the debate over climate change, like almost all environmental issues, is a debate over culture, worldviews, and ideology."

www.ssireview.org/articles/entry/climate_science_as_culture_war

It seems as if the Pope has left the worldview of the conservative masses and gone with the worldview of the elite. I think this may end up having enormous implications for the Church itself because it is about core culture and core belief.

Think tanks are over the moon, the elite is in ecstasy, the people are perplexed and stunned.

claig Tue 16-Jun-15 00:35:58

"This fact can be seen most vividly in the growing partisan divide over the issue. Political affiliation is one of the strongest correlates with individual uncertainty about climate change, not scientific knowledge.1 The percentage of conservatives and Republicans who believe that the effects of global warming have already begun declined from roughly 50 percent in 2001 to about 30 percent in 2010, while the corresponding percentage for liberals and Democrats increased from roughly 60 percent in 2001 to about 70 percent in 2010.2 (See “The Growing Partisan Divide over Climate Change,” below.)
growing_partisan_divide_climate_change_chart_social_change_organizations

Climate change has become enmeshed in the so-called culture wars. Acceptance of the scientific consensus is now seen as an alignment with liberal views consistent with other “cultural” issues that divide the country"

"Acceptance of the scientific consensus is now seen as an alignment with liberal views"

The Pope has goe with the liberals and yet it is conservatives who in general most profess belief in what the Church stands for. This may end u having epic consequences for the Church.

It is OK to call the Tory voters the "nasty party" as the modernisers do, the conservative masses will let that go, but when it comes to "climate change", the conservative masses will never believe the elite because this is part of core beliefs and culture wars and what they see as liberal lies.

cdtaylornats Tue 16-Jun-15 07:18:10

If the Pope really wanted to help prevent climate change all he needs to do is state that contraception is allowed and encouraged by the Catholic Church.

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