Former Tory peer calls Conservative manifesto 'the mother of all lies'

[blacksunday]

He says the Tories austerity policies have damaged the economy and slowed down the recovery

---

Former Conservative peer Lord Skidelsky launched a ferocious attack on the Tory manifesto today.

He said his former party's claim that they had rescued the country from 'Labour's great recession' was "the mother of all lies."

In a post on his website, Lord Skidelsky said: "The Great Recession was caused by the banks. Governments, the Labour government included, by bailing out the banks and continuing to spend, stopped the Great Recession from turning into a Great Depression.

"Yet practically everyone seems to believe that the Great Recession was manufactured by Gordon Brown."

He went on to say that while the Coalition's austerity strategy had reduced the deficit, most economists agree the economy would have grown between 5 and 10% more in the past five years with "more sensible policies."

Lord Skidelsky was made a peer in 1991 and joined the Conservative party in 1992. He served as chief opposition spokesperson for Culture and for Treasury before being removed from his position by William Hague in 1997 for opposing the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia.

He left the Conservative party in 2001, and currently sits as a crossbench member of the House of Lords.

Lord Skidelsky said the Conservative narrative on deficit reduction and austerity had been so successful all alternatives were seen as "unthinkable."

"But sooner or later reality will break in" he said. "And what is now unthinkable will become sensible again. But not in this election."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/former-tory-peer-calls-conservative-5525765

[Isitmebut]

Blacksunday … and you have the front to accuse me of political propaganda; why do you assume that the readers on here are all stupid, or don’t have the ability to think beyond a Daily Mirror article? Lol

This Lord Robert Skidley-diddley geezer, is this the SAME “former Tory peer” that was originally in the Labour Party, then joined as a founder of the Social Democratic Party (SDP), was made a peer in 1991, and THEN joining the Conservative Party in 1992 – and then this Chairman of the Social Market Foundation who previously wrote a biography of Osward Mossley, was ejected from the Tories by William Hague in 2001 – where he became a Cross Bencher (person, dresser, whatever).

Hardly yer typical Conservative, or unbiased opinion on the Conservative Party, now is it?

One more time, the theory of increasing government debt responsibly, depends on what debt figure you start from and the countries ability to service that debt interest and pay it down in the future – and unlike 2001/2 when we went into a budget surplus, by 2010 we had a £157 billion budget deficit, our largest in peace time history and far ££££ larger than ANY country in Europe, including the bailed out countries.

This ‘any government spending is good spending’ in a recession only works at all if a government has a balanced economy, the increased debt is used to stimulate the private sector through tax cuts etc, and/or infrastructure to provide current/future growth – THEREBY giving you the means to build a sustainable economy, and ability to first service that debt (without needing spending cuts), and then PAY THAT DEBT DOWN.

If as in 2010 the UK was unbalancing its economy BEFORE the financial crash and racking up budget deficit debt, when it should have been paying down our National Debt, as other countries were doing.

Gordon Brown may not manufactured the Great Recession, but his policies from 1997 to 2010 in growing a UK economy/spending on the proceeds of a financial bubble that burst, unbalancing the economy (public sector employment had grown by 18% and the private sector paying for it had fallen back to 7%)


Any fool of a government can spend money the country doesn’t have, but in the UK politicians only get thanks and a State Funeral for FIXING the UK, not breaking it.

So as to this “5-10% of extra growth over the past 5-years we could have had with more sensible policies” - I will agree that as government spending and consumption are components of GDP, so if Labour in 2010 had formed more quangos, hired another million public sector workers, doubled public sector salaries, we might have had 11% of growth – but if the private sector left in a recession cannot SUPPORT that spending, IT IS UNSUSTAINABLE, the national debt will double, and interest charges become unbearable e.g. Greece.

The UK in 2010 was already unbalance, debt was trending up and to SUPPORT this public sector imbalance already in the economy, Labour took away the 10p tax rate and was putting up National Insurance and Fuel Duties PRIOR to the election for after – clearly with this Greek growth economic model, and Labour told us more tax rises to the masses were to follow – how was any of this ever going to be sustainable????

Below is the Labour Party’s 2010 General Election Manifesto written by Ed Miliband, please SHOW ME where these “sensible policies” are, where either the UK never needed to rebalance the UK economy or get our National Debt down; and start with their never detailed “halve the Budget Deficit” within.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8615297.stm

So “the lies” are those pretending that “the better way”, is any different to their 1997-2010 way that failed so miserably, despite the best economic/financial decade in over a century, to make a progressive difference

[blacksunday]

Isitmebut-

Please remain calm.

I had no idea what the history of this Tory peer was. So, yes, he may have a motivation to say what he said.

Nonetheless, what he says is true. The Tory party have tried to build up a this narrative that excessive public spending was the cause of the financial crisis and recession, which is of course absurd.

I agree that financialisation of Western economies has made us more vulnerable to financial crises. This is especially true of the UK economy, whereby a huge portion of our tax receipts comes from finance.

[Isitmebut]

blacksunday .... Re your 'not us guv' head-up-red-bum economic agenda and;

"The Tory party have tried to build up a this narrative that excessive public spending was the cause of the financial crisis and recession, which is of course absurd."

I have explained above what happened e.g. the tax receipts Brown spent on a bloated government PLUS £30 bil plus extra via an annual budget deficit, was built on a financial bubble economy of speculation, consumption and bank/government/business/personal debt - and was to burst on the first recession, never mind a financially induced great recession.

Please tell the board what you challenge from what I've wrote earlier, and the confirmation link below - and if you can tell us where all that 'kin money went e.g. social/any homes, we'd appreciate it.


www.economicshelp.org/blog/5509/economics/government-spending-under-labour/

“During the years 2001-2007, there was a sharp rise in government spending. In real terms, government spending increased from just over £400bn (2009 prices) to £618bn in 2008-09.”

“This increase in government spending contributed to budget deficits and higher public sector debt.”

”However, the budget situation was also improved by impressive tax revenues from the housing and financial boom. When the credit crunch hit, tax revenues rapidly dwindled causing a marked deterioration in public finances.”

• “If the government had entered the credit crunch with a budget surplus and lower public sector debt, the government would have had much more room to pursue a real and sustained economic stimulus.”

• “A great failure of spending decisions of the 2000s, was to allow budget deficits during rapid economic expansion. A budget deficit of 3% of GDP may have sounded relatively low. But, in hindsight, this exaggerated the underlying deficit because tax revenues were boosted by tax revenues which evaporated during the credit crunch.”

[Anniegetyourgun]

Osward Mossley? Who the fuck is that?

[blacksunday]

So, again, you're blaming New Labour for the neo-liberalism which you're currently doing your best on these talkboards to promote?

You see, as I explained many times, the UK has been transforming it's economy in to the neo-liberal model of privitisation, deregulation, and financialisation.

This has occurred around the world, but especially in developed Western economies, and especially the US and UK.

These are the same policies which you spend endless hours on here promoting: deregulation, privitisation, sucking corporate cock, etc.

So no, it wasn't public spending which caused the financial crisis. If we had had a sensible economy actually making things instead of relying on finance and the City of London for the majority of our tax receipts, we would not have been hit harder than most countries.

[Isitmebut]

Blacksunday ..... yet another nice speech using fancy words for Labour's economic incompetence; so lets look at Labour's last record of "making things" after inheriting an economy where manufacturing was around 23% of our economy, and handing back to the Conservatives an economy where it had dropped to around 12%.


1997 to 2005; 'Million factory jobs lost' under Labour’

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/million-factory-jobs-lost-under-labour-6150418.html

“Gordon Brown's reputation for economic management will suffer a blow today from official figures showing that 1 million manufacturing jobs have been lost since Labour won power in May 1997.”

“Business organisations blamed red tape, rising taxes, a strong pound and the burgeoning public sector for the wave of redundancies. They urged Mr Brown to use his Budget to slash costs facing industry and do more to boost skills.”

“The number of workforce jobs in manufacturing - employees, self-employed and owner managers - has declined from 4.52 million in spring 1997 to 3.53 million at the end of September last year. Figures from the Office for National Statistics today are expected to show the decline, to the end of December, has broken the 1 million mark.”

• Is 'neo-liberalism' losing 1 million tax paying manufacturing jobs BEFORE the crash began and replacing them with 1 million higher salaried tax funded government quangoocrats and 'non job's of newly made up titles - or is a perfect example of my 'unbalancing' of the economy?
  
  

• As that first bullet point further above stated “If the government had entered the credit crunch with a budget surplus and lower public sector debt, the government would have had much more room to pursue a real and sustained economic stimulus.”
  

In other words, back then, as now (and in the future), due to Labour running a budget deficit economy in the good times, a Labour economy is far less able to GIVE TAX CUTS to help the masses through the bad times, especially as 'real' earnings began fulling in 2008.

A Labour budget deficit economy is exactly why under Labour from 2008, taxes were going UP and not DOWN, as in a Conservative budget reducing economy, trying to balance cuts,spending and taxes.

And that is exactly why every time I see a Labour muppet BLAME the Conservative for the fall in living standards I want to put my control through the TV, as the fall of living standards began under them and their only solution when kept ramping up the deficit/debt, was to put taxes UP, reducing living standards further.

[blacksunday]

Dear Isitmebut-

Your posts are tedious.

UK governments haven't maintainted a surplus current account for more than a couple of years since 1979.

www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data

Secondly, calm down.

Thirdly, tax rises don't necessarily reduce living standards. See Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Germany, etc. They have some of the highest taxes and highest living standards in the world.

Fourthly, this isn't about Labour. Labour continued the neo-liberal economic policies of its predecessors. The process started in 1979 and continues to this day.

When the Tories are kicked out in May, whichever government - barring a progressive, anti-austerity coalition - takes their place will most likely continue the same destructive policies.

Hope this helps.

[Isitmebut]

Dearest blacksunday .... you have not responded to this Labour version of neo liberalism - where Labour incompetently dump tax PAYING private sector jobs and replace them with tax FUNDED public sector quangos/non jobs - and then proclaim "the end of boom and bust", as we have the biggest financial bubble boom, right before the bust.

As for taxes and living standards, the plebs don't mind paying higher taxes if they need to for FRONT LINE SERVICES, the problem is when taxes keep rising via a government that can't be trusted with them;

”New Labour ‘blew £230bn on errors, fraud and inefficiency’
www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4368120.ece

"The hundreds of billions of pounds of public money wasted through errors, inefficiency and fraud under Tony Blair’s New Labour government have been revealed in a book (The Elephant in the Room by E. Hamilton)."

”A retired businessman who spent three years examining where taxpayers’ money had gone found that by 2005 the (Labour) government had wasted more than £230 billion, much of which was lavished on projects started under New Labour.”

”Nearly 57% of the overall amount was lost by the Inland Revenue, no HM Revenue and Customs.”

[Isitmebut]

P.S. And just as the Conservatives are rebalancing the economy back towards the private sector, what are Labour offering the BOOST Businesses/investment/jobs - you have to search for the odd policy, which I believe includes putting up Corporation tax for big businesses, because they are big.

Feb 2015; ”Growth map of the UK: How the North West is catching up with London despite capital's economy growing 3.7% in a year”

www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-2956127/North-West-s-growth-catching-London-capital-s-production-output-grows-3-7-12-months.html
”London was the fastest-growing region of Britain last year as the UK economy clocked up its best performance since the financial crisis struck, according to latest figures.”

”Output in the capital rose by 0.7 per cent between October and December and by 3.7 per cent in 2014 as businesses in the City of London and at Silicon Roundabout thrived.”

”But the report by Royal Bank of Scotland shows there was no ‘North-South divide’ with the North West and East Midlands the second and third strongest regions with growth of 3.1 per cent and 3 per cent respectively.”


”‘Growth over the past year for many regions has been at or above the historical average,’ writes RBS economist Rupert Seggins in the report.”


”‘With labour markets continuing to heal across the UK, 2014 should be chalked up as a success for the regional economies.’”


*Under 'Democracy', Labour look to REVERSE the recovery and spend all their time and energy, creating new rules and regs and EVEN MORE 'jobs for the red card carrying boys' - including replacing the Lords, when last time Labour had the police in Downing Street investigating 'Cash for Lordships'.


Election 2015: Labour manifesto at-a-glance
www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32284159

Democracy
The party promises to devolve powers from Westminster and lower the voting age to 16. It says it will:
? Establish a "people-led constitutional convention" to look at governance across the UK
? Replace the House of Lords with a senate of nations and regions
? Devolve £30bn of resources and powers to English cities and counties
? Fulfil pledges to devolve further powers to Scotland and Wales
? Give more power to local communities to "shape their high street"
? Ban MPs from holding paid directorships and consultancies
? Require large companies to publish details of their gender pay gap

[blacksunday]

Nobody cares.

[Isitmebut]

I wish you did, as if you either took in my 'pearls', or showed where I'm going wrong, you wouldn't write so much woolabra wonga (sheep dip).

[Kampeki]

isitmebut, Ken Clarke is a Tory, is probably one of the party's most famous and experienced politicians. Served in Thatcher's cabinet as well as David Cameron's. I don't think you can argue that he isn't a Tory.

Yet he said the other day that the Tory party had become "too right wing" and he warned against the blank cheque spending promised that they have been making.

Interesting that even some of DC's own party find his current approach unpalatable.

[Pangurban]

Question time the week before last (i think) with Michael Gove and Christopher Hitchens was very good and addressed some of this . When MG spouted a whole load of propaganda rubbish about Britain practically being in the same boat as Greece when they inherited it, Peter Hitchens was able to cut through his spiel beautifully.

I think PH was wrong on the first past the post ensuring you won't get the same coalition in again. If it did it before, it can repeat it. STV for me.

[Pangurban]

Sorry, said Christopher not Peter. Christopher of course would have pulled up blatant false propaganda too. I will not say deliberately misleading lies.

[Isitmebut]

Pangurban ..... I did not hear what Peter Hichens said, but I'd like to know, as the facts speak for themselves - we have similar problems to Greece, in that they had gone on a borrowing/spending splurge as all of a sudden in the EU they could borrow at similar levels to France etc, the public sector (non front line jobs) had got too expensive/large/inefficient - and the private sector, held page by red tape/regs, could not support the economy.

Next Mr Hitchens can not argue that the £153 bil UK deficit/overspend was far larger than ANY country in Europe, including Greece, but the argument against the similarity would be that the UK was a far larger economy and able to support that debt - but ONLY if the UK both realized that our economy was unbalance, worked out they were sustaining the unsustainable, and that the UK was going to do something about it - otherwise we WERE on the road to Greece, via France.

But Labour in 2010 neither had plans to trim back the size/cost of fat government that had grown at a bigger percentage than the private sector, OR STIMULATE business investment/job growth, or help the masses who had seen real earning falling from 2008 - so how would there have been a UK recovery under Labour, with similar policies to 'fat State, penal taxes' France, who until recently had 11% unemployment and flat GDP growth?

Either Labour were stuck like a rabbit in headlights not knowing what to do with the financial/economic 'monster' they created, or were political cowards trying to limit their electoral damage in the election - and neither should give the UK confidence that Labour won't reverse what the Coalition achieved.

Don't take my word for it, here was their 2010 manifesto (as vague on spending cut details as the 2015 one) - can you spot ANY solutions to their own problems, including 5 million needing social homes?

At-a-glance: Labour (2010) election manifesto
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8615297.stm

[Isitmebut]

Kampeki ... are you suggesting better to be 'left wing' and be like France, rather than be 'right wing' with solutions Labour never had and be in far better shape than we were?

Is that 'left' label so important for this country, we'd rather revisit the 1970's than acknowledge what has been actually achieved after what was inherited, away from Labour talking down the recovery daily for 5-years, for their own agenda, a light year better than Europes?

There are always 'Ken Clarkes' throughout the Conservative Party who speak their mind; isn't that better than a half a brain parliamentary Labour Party who had a majority of 166 at one stage to MOULD the UK for the better in the best decade to do so in over 100-years (thanks to the tax receipts of the financial bubble), who mainly sat in parliament and didn't make a peep no matter what Blair & Brown did?