ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Meriam Ibrahim to be released!!!!(77 Posts)
Thank goodness. She refused to renounce Christianity, gave birth shackled in a filthy jail and was sentenced to hang for apostasy against Islam, despite never having been muslim. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27651483
'The husband of a woman on death row in Sudan for abandoning the Islamic faith tells the BBC he has been told nothing about her possible release.'
This is reported by the BBC. So yes - it doesn't look like she's not out of the woods yet and we need to be sceptical.
I agree we should stop foreign aid to Sudan.
I think times are a changing and that the international communities are becoming increasingly intolerant of these excuses and pathetic attempts to blame religion. Man's inhumanity to women is a man's responsibility and and these men have to stop doing it and stop getting away with it.
The Telegraph article doesn't really make a lot of sense. Crilly writes:
"Islamic law is being abused by the impious and the hypocritical. To these pseudo-believers, it is simply another tool to be used to keep women in their place or foreigners in line.
"That is exactly what happened to Meriam. A half-brother apparently furious that she had gone her own way, choosing her own husband and planning to emigrate to America, was simply not going to allow it. Never mind that Meriam had never practised as a Muslim, he cried “apostasy” and accused her of converting to Christianity.
"So while it is tempting to blame the government in Sudan, the mullahs, or Islam itself for Meriam’s terrible fate, the real problem is the abuse of such laws by her half-brother and all those people who want to use religion for personal gain. The problem is not Islam – but bad Muslims and the mad men prepared to take its name in vain."
But in a sensible country, it wouldn't have mattered whether her half-brother had a grudge against Meriam. The authorities would have laughed at him and told him to piss off. In Sudan, it was taken seriously. If you didn't have authorities willing to act on this sort of grudge, then the grudge itself wouldn't matter.
In any case, the logical conclusion to Crilly's argument is that if Meriam had genuinely been an apostate (as opposed to someone who had always been Christian), the punishment would have been justified.
Yes the fact that these Islamic laws actually are enforceable, and almost exclusively enforced against women is the fault of the Sudanese government. If she had converted to Christianity, would stoning to death be acceptable?
I understand she isn't going to be freed, unless there is a successful appeal.
JaneParker I completely agree with you here. You can blame Sharia law or blame her half-brother. Either way, it is still being allowed to take place which is the horrifying thing.
It may not be the end of it for now, but perhaps with our support this is a start (hopeful)?
If she isn't freed then spending years or her life in a Sudanese prison could be worse than being executed. Given how women are treated generally we can imagine what they will do to her.
We are rightly horrified at her treatment, but it is based on the laws of the land. You have to assume that those laws are widely accepted or they would not exist. A despotic government can impose laws, but that only lasts for for so long. Eventually either the government changes or the people make it part of their culture and upbringing and want to keep it that way.
It's why we should be wary of Sharia law becoming accepted here. Not because of a few extremists waving signs saying 'death to infidels' - we can deal with them, but because the ordinary people in the street can lead us there one small step at a time.
Ordinary respectable, working class people who grow up in countries with laws like that naturally regard them as sensible and necessary to keep the streets safe. They will tend to vote for MPs who promise stricter laws and promise to cut crime. Hell, I'd vote for that too up to a point, we are too easy on criminals.
It doesn't require that we be overwhelmed by Muslim fanatics or anything dramatic and Daily Mail-ish, it just takes enough people who were brought up to believe governments should 'crack down' on crime and immorality to change the balance and start a slow slide in that direction.
We are already saying that 'some Sharia law is ok' as long as it only applies to Muslim women who live here. That is 'voluntary' of course, but in the real world we know what that means to a woman surrounded by her family.
Gradually we can become accustomed to small changes and our children will regard them as normal.
Or... every time someone says Sharia Law is harmless we can point to a picture of this woman and say "NO!".
Backonlybriefly, that youtube video scared the hell out of me. Maybe people excuse bcs they don't want to believe it.
The ironic thing about that video is that they think they are winning an argument by assuring us that ordinary Muslims approve of the punishments and abuse and not just extremists.
There are posters on MN who, like Crilly in that Telegraph article, will assure us that it's just a handful of bad Muslims doing it. Clearly that's not the case at all and we can't address it properly if we don't understand it.
People have trouble imagining how different a culture can be. They try to pretend that everyone is British and the only difference is that we carry umbrellas. Biologically they are right. There is no physical difference between us. All it is is upbringing, but that is a big difference.
The average Muslim isn't evil in their own eyes. They will probably see themselves as staunch defenders of justice and decency while seeing us as weak and immoral. They'd probably argue that if they didn't stone or hang people then they'd end up with a culture like ours where anything goes.
No matter how unpleasant I find it they have as much right to that opinion as we do to ours. Still I don't plan to go and live in the Sudan (or any Islamic country) and I don't want us taking on any aspect of that culture. I don't want to be told to respect it and I don't want us to meet it half way.
Thank heavens for this. I re-read this terrible news story again over the weekend and couldn't comprehend how I could be enjoying life in a sunny European city whilst some woman is shackled like this in a horrendous prison with this sentence looming. I also signed the petition but felt so helpless. What must she have been telling her toddler to comfort him?
This new has just made my day.
Unfortunately, as I understand things eg. from William Hague webchat yesterday, things are still uncertain for Meriam Writergirl - but much work continuing in the campaign for her release to a place of safety.
Will those calling for an end to aid in Sudan please differentiate between Sudan and South Sudan which is a different and super impoverished country. Dafur for instance is in South Sudan.
According to amnesty international the sentence still stands!!!
That is terrible are you sure?
*The Court of Appeal has just ordered her release. Hurrah!
Guardian story here
Thank-goodness - I am so pleased!!!
But I am also so surprised that this is not more prominent on Mumsnet!
Just searched and found this....anyone else seen anything more recent?
Oops just seen on BBC that it's certain so good!
Shit - it's just been reported that she's been arrested again!! Detained at the airport as she was leaving with her husband and 2 children for the US - surrounded by 40 security staff.
I've just seen the email from Change, as I'd signed the petition. I do hope this will be the start of a new and happy life for her. Great, great news.
Hadn't read the thread before posting, so this latest news is dispiriting.
International pressure needs to get back on this Sudanese government - what they playing at!!
It sounded really sinister - according to the BBC, up to 40 plain clothed security agents detained her and her family as she tried to board a plane at Khartoum's airport. I don't get why they can't see this is a massive own goal - quite aside from the injustice of it.
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