'Cut the green c**p'. Has Cameron had a Damascene moment?

(117 Posts)
claig Thu 21-Nov-13 09:35:11

"David Cameron has ordered ministers to ditch the ‘green c**p’ blamed for driving up energy bills and making business uncompetitive, it is claimed.

...

The source said: ‘He’s telling everyone, “We’ve got to get rid of all this green c**p.” He’s absolutely focused on it.’

[[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510936/Cut-green-c-p-Camerons-private-view-energy-taxation-horrify-environmental-campaigners.html]

Some of us have been saying this for years. But there is always praise in Heaven and among the public for a politician who repenteth and seeth the light!

claig Fri 22-Nov-13 01:15:30

Very good analysis in the Guardian. Seems to think that Cameron has said something similar to this and that teh Sun and the Daily Mail are right about their story. I'm not surprised about the BBC reporting that Cameron had denied it. My guess is that they want to do damage limitation to their green agenda.

"That said, Downing Street did not actually deny that Cameron had said this this morning (and I was surprised to see the BBC and others reporting that he had ). A Downing Street spokesman put out a statement saying: "We do not recognise this phrase." This is a piece of spin doctor lingo (that may have originated with New Labour) that normally means: "We did not put this out ourselves, we want to distance ourselves from it, but we cannot say for certain that the words in the story were never actually used." Subsequently Sky's Joey Jones reported a slightly stronger denial:"

"Cameron and 'green crap' - what should we believe?

1. Generally, although not everything that appears in newspapers is true, most of it. This story appears in two newspapers, the Sun (where it is the splash) and the Daily Mail (where it is on page two). Both papers attribute the key quote to a "senior Tory source". The Sun says:

A senior Tory source said: "The prime minister is going round Number 10 saying: 'We have got to get rid of all this green crap'. He is totally focussed on it.

"We used to say 'Vote Blue, Go Green', now it's 'Vote Blue, Get Real'."

And the Mail says:

The source said: ‘He’s telling everyone, “We’ve got to get rid of all this green crap.” He’s absolutely focused on it.’

Tory high command has also privately abandoned Mr Cameron’s pre-election mantra ‘vote blue, go green’. ‘It’s vote blue, get real, now – and woe betide anyone who doesn’t get the memo,’ the source said.

Both stories were written by lobby correspondents. It is common for lobby correspondents from rival papers to team up to invite contacts out for lunch, where the conversation is normally conducted on "lobby terms" (ie, nothing reported will be attributed to a named source). This seems to have happened on this occasions. Sometimes you will hear aggrieved politicians claims that lobby journalists on these occasions distort quotes, but in my experience these complaints are rarely justified and, if the Sun and the Daily Mail are saying a "senior Tory source" said this, I'm happy to accept that he or she did.

2. But was the source quoting Cameron verbatim, or was he/she paraphrasing? In other words, is it Cameron himself saying: "We've got to get rid of all this green crap." Or was the source using his own phrase to paraphrase the gist of what Cameron has been saying? Both are possible, although the second explanation was more likely. The source does not seem to have been referring to a specific conversation. Instead, he was summarising a message that Cameron has supposedly being giving out generally.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/21/call-clegg-live-politics-blog

claig Fri 22-Nov-13 00:37:24

'The deputy prime minister, Nick Clegg, inflamed the row on Thursday by saying the green cost on bills " isn't all crap ".

www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/21/no-10-cold-water-david-cameron-green-crap

Who needs the return of Monty Python? This is better entertainment than the spam sketch. An investigative journalist should ask Nick Clegg to explain which bits are crap

And now we have David Davies, Tory MP for Monmouth, saying that 'cut the green crap' would make a great election manifesto slogan

A GWENT Tory MP has waded into the row over whether the Prime Minister said “cut the green crap” – saying it would make a great election manifesto slogan.

....

He later told the Argus: “I do not think the science is settled. It is far from clear that CO2 has been responsible for the minor increase in temperature over the last 100 years.

“However even if you believe it has it makes no sense for the UK alone to levy green taxes onto home owners and businesses.

“These taxes have pushed up prices for householders and damaged business without having any impact on global carbon emissions.

“Despite all the doom mongering predictions there has been no increase in temperature for 15 years. It is the economic climate we should be worrying about which is why I think the time has come to repeal green taxes.”

www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/10825957.Tory_Monmouth_MP_says__quot_cut_the_green_crap_quot__should_be_election_slogan/

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 23:32:31

Stalin and Lenin called the progressives in the West "useful idiots".
I think Russell Brand is the 1%'s "useful idiot" par excellence.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 23:29:35

This is what Prince Charles said in an ironic kind of sense, dismissing it

"The implication, he said, was that those who accept the evidence of hundreds of scientists around the world are "secretly conspiring to undermine and deliberately destroy the entire market-based capitalist system which now dominates the world"

Sounds pretty close to the truth. But he doesn't explain why.

Even the Occupy movement and the BBC's, the New Statesman's and the Guardian's favourite, Russell Brand, think that there is a 1% elite. The difference is that they don't understand what the 1% are doing and why they are doing it.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 23:20:46

Branson. He's a joke. He gets involved in campaigns. The elite don't, they tell others to. They knight pop stars and others for spreading the word to the public.

I haven't mentioned religion, because the elite aren't religious. If they were, then they woudn't be trying to screw the rest of humanity, because their global warming scam is only the first small step in what they have planned for humanity.

HomeHelpMeGawd Thu 21-Nov-13 22:54:29

Claig, if you find it easier to believe that a group of anonymous people exist who have dramatically more money and influence than people such as the Kochs, Branson, oil sheikhs, et al, and that they are in cahoots with the Guardian, the royal family and the BBC, to promote climate change policy, then you are clearly happier on the wildest shores of conspiracy theory. Enjoy your time there. Just don't start spouting stuff about my co-religionists, please. We had a bad enough time with those kind of conspiracies in the 30s, we don't need any more today.

ohtanmybum Thu 21-Nov-13 20:36:44

grin

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 20:34:31

We'll find out what Hell thinks about it tomorrow. They don't get the Daily Mail there, only the Guardian. Apparently that is one of their punishments.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 20:32:08

'What was it that DC said again?'

Apparently, a "source" said that it was 'cut the green c**' and there has been much rejoicing in Heaven when they read the Daily Mail there this morning.

'And thanks for the tip about recognising 'the elite', a group of them just shot past my house on their skateboards.'

The giveaway is if a large limousine with a taxpayer funded chauffeur is following their skateboards in order to carry their shoes and papers.

ohtanmybum Thu 21-Nov-13 20:23:11

Claig - What was it that DC said again? And thanks for the tip about recognising 'the elite', a group of them just shot past my house on their skateboards.wink

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 20:14:58

Was Russell Brand there or is he going soon and will BBC Newsnight do a special on him in Hudson Bay or the Arctic Circle now that Cameron appears to have broken ranks and bolted for freedom with his cry of 'cut the green c**p'?

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 20:11:51

Did you see any former or current pop stars over there? The elite usually tell them to get involved and spread the climate catastrophe message to a disbelieving public.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 20:05:27

ohtanmybum, glad to see you back from Hudson Bay. Hope you had a great time. Did you have to fight past six deep BBC film crews preparing more of their polar bear and ethical planet, climate catastrophe specials for the public? Did you see any members of the elite there, dressed in hoodies and baseball caps, trying to get a photo shoot with the polar bear?

'"You need to stop shiting where you eat and sleep." was her message as she posed on her ice floe'
So she wants the people to have bigger houses rather than the 'sustainable' ones that the elite want them to have?

Did she also explain that polar bears are thriving and growing in number and that the elite have miscounted them when flying past in their private jets and looking out of the window?

ohtanmybum Thu 21-Nov-13 19:47:35

I don't take much notice of what DC says; he's a a rather weedy reed that bends with the faintest waft of wind. He will do or say anything that he thinks, or is told to think, will keep him in No 10. Advice from the Aussie Oracle may help or hinder, we shall see.

Claig I am fresh back from Hudson Bay, where I managed to have a quick word with the polar bear, in between her photo' calls. She sends her regards. Her view is that, as the 'intelligent' species, humans should take better care of their home territory -"You need to stop shiting where you eat and sleep." was her message as she posed on her ice floe.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 19:32:36

OhYou, I don't think we will ever agree until the real facts are one day revealed, but it has been interesting discussing with you and your opposite opinions to mine.

OhYouBadBadKaleds Thu 21-Nov-13 19:28:11

I think Claig, that you and I will never agree on this issue but it has been interesting chatting with you.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 19:12:18

Prince Charles is not a scientist, but he is all in favour of "sustainable living" and he sometimes addresses politicians.

'The Prince of Wales has condemned climate change sceptics for their "corrosive" impact on public opinion and accused them of playing a "reckless game of roulette" with the planet.

In a speech at a European parliament climate conference in Brussels, he also warned environmentalists they needed to do much more to convince people to adopt a greener lifestyle.

He challenged the green lobby to start selling the benefits of sustainable living instead of focusing on what people should give up.

Questioning why the public had not eagerly embraced sustainable living'

....

"climate change sceptics who deny the vast body of scientific evidence that shows beyond any reasonable doubt that global warming has been exacerbated by human industrialised activity."

The implication, he said, was that those who accept the evidence of hundreds of scientists around the world are "secretly conspiring to undermine and deliberately destroy the entire market-based capitalist system which now dominates the world".

www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/feb/10/prince-charles-climate-change-sceptics

'exacerbated by human industrialised activity'
That is what the climate lobby wants to limit in order to provide what the rich privileged elite call 'sustainable living', which boils down to a cut in living standards. low-growth, low consumption, high energy and water prices, a higher cost of living and a proliferation of financial fat cats ripping off the public and prospering from carbon emission trading whle ordinary people's carbon emissions will probably end up being regulated and restricted either by price or government decree. They think they can convince the public to go along with it by showing them pictures of the polar bear and by saying that the planet will be destroyed if they don't go along with it.

But, today, we are told that our own Prime Minister, has allegedly said
'cut the green c**p'

We can only wish him luck, strength and Godspeed.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 18:53:11

"If you cut out the politicians and listen to the climate scientists"

But you can't do that. The IPCC report of 2007 had errors in it. People like Gordon Brown use the IPCC reports when they have their global conferences.

The taxes, the regulations, the policies are set by poticians and puppets, not by scientists, and the puppets tend to ignore scientists who disagree with them and call them "mavericks", "deniers" and Gordon Brown called some people who didn't believe in manmade climate change 'flat-earthers'.

But. today, we read reports that Cameron, in it together at last with the public, has had the guts to express what millions of people across the world have been saying while he was hugging hoodies, eating pasties and dancing on ice with huskies

'cut the green c**p'

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 18:41:23

"for the benefit of rapidly propagating mankind"

That is diametrically opposed to the wishes of the elite and the message of their puppets.

OhYouBadBadKaleds Thu 21-Nov-13 18:41:14

If you cut out the politicians and listen to the climate scientists: people from different nations who actually work in the field the message is climate change is urgent. I know you don't differentiate between politicians and scientists and I realise that there is nothing I could say to change your mind on that.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 18:38:53

Thanks for the interesting info about Arrhenius. Just looked him up on wikipedia. He thought that warming would be good for the planet and would mean more crop growth and that the population could be fed better. That is of course, the exact opposite of what the current elite want to hear.

This is what he said

"By the influence of the increasing percentage of carbonic acid in the atmosphere, we may hope to enjoy ages with more equable and better climates, especially as regards the colder regions of the earth, ages when the earth will bring forth much more abundant crops than at present, for the benefit of rapidly propagating mankind." (p63)

Arrhenius clearly believed that a warmer world would be a positive change. His ideas remained in circulation, but until about 1960 most scientists doubted that global warming would occur (believing the oceans would absorb CO2 faster than humanity emitted the gas). Most scientists also dismissed the greenhouse effect as implausible for the cause of ice ages, as Milutin Milankovitch had presented a mechanism using orbital changes of the earth (Milankovitch cycles).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svante_Arrhenius

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 18:29:39

"The other problem is, that climate change is so urgent, that action has to be taken before we have fully understood the problem."

They told us that a strike on Syria was so urgent that it had to be taken before the UN inspectors reported on who had used chemical weapons.

The public has got wise to their claims of urgency, catastrophe and doom. We've heard it all before, they keep playing the same ol score, what do they take us for?

By the sound of it, even the Rt Hon David Cameron, Old Etonian and Bullingdon Club member, has had enough and has apparently cried out in exasperation 'cut the green c**p'

OhYouBadBadKaleds Thu 21-Nov-13 18:21:57

Interestingly the first realisation that increasing CO2 in the atmosphere would lead to a temp rise was in the 1890s, long before politicians etc got involved. Chap called Arrhenius.

It is an incredibly complex and emerging science and thats something that climatologists have struggled to get over to the media. Science is about making errors and having the work peer reviewed so that it becomes more correct as time goes on. The problem is that every error in climate science is scrutinised and held up as an example of which climate science is wrong by those who disbelieve it - it is not.

The other problem is, that climate change is so urgent, that action has to be taken before we have fully understood the problem. We know that it is happening - what is impossible to quantify accurately is how quickly it is happening and exactly what the effects will be. It is an ongoing live experiment on a global scale.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 18:10:13

'Is the Daily Mail your sole source of information?'

No. I read the Guardian to see what the elite think and I read the Daily Mail to see what the people think.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 18:04:17

Polls will go through the roof, Tories will be celebrating in jubilation and progressive think tanks will be at a loss about what to do.

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