'Cut the green c**p'. Has Cameron had a Damascene moment?

(117 Posts)
claig Thu 21-Nov-13 09:35:11

"David Cameron has ordered ministers to ditch the ‘green c**p’ blamed for driving up energy bills and making business uncompetitive, it is claimed.

...

The source said: ‘He’s telling everyone, “We’ve got to get rid of all this green c**p.” He’s absolutely focused on it.’

[[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510936/Cut-green-c-p-Camerons-private-view-energy-taxation-horrify-environmental-campaigners.html]

Some of us have been saying this for years. But there is always praise in Heaven and among the public for a politician who repenteth and seeth the light!

hopskipandthump Thu 21-Nov-13 09:37:49

I believe in protecting the environment - but I think that the research around global warming is flawed, and the measures that have been introduced because of it are ruinous. So I think it's the right course of action.

But I suspect you're looking for people to disagree vehemently rather than agree with you!

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 09:42:18

hopskipandthump, I agree with you about wanting to protect the environment and that global warming "research" is flawed.

I think that this shows that not only has Cameron had a Damascene moment, but that the talk of him being an out-of-touch toff is a lie, because he has expressed himself in the forthright language used by the people on this issue.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 09:46:05

‘He’s telling everyone, “We’ve got to get rid of all this green c**p.”'

Has he told Ed Davey?

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 09:50:44
GeekLovesANYFUCKER Thu 21-Nov-13 09:50:56

I am curious as to what sort of scientific experience and training you have had claig?. I recall that one of the issues in having a rational debate about climate change is that there are so few climate change deniers that have a solid scientific background or do not have ulterior motives in denying climate change.

I'm waiting for proof either way of global warming. I don't have a preference. But in the meantime we are 'saving the planet' by making sure poor people can't afford heating.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Thu 21-Nov-13 09:54:17

talk of him being an out-of-touch toff is a lie, because he has expressed himself in the forthright language used by the people on this issue

Though talk of him being a cynical devious manipulative liar with no principles beyond letting the market wreak what havoc it will, might be slightly closer to the mark?

Yes, Geek, I do wonder about the qualifications of those who breezily state that the research and findings of so many reputable scientists in peer-reviewed publications is 'flawed'!

Geek, we have had people on both sides creating evidence to save wasting time actually finding any and both sides are collecting faithful fans like they are football teams or religions.

But whichever way it turns out this isn't the way to deal with it.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 10:04:32

"Tory high command has also privately abandoned Mr Cameron’s pre-election mantra ‘vote blue, go green’. ‘It’s vote blue, get real, now – and woe betide anyone who doesn’t get the memo,’ the source said."

'Vote blue, get real'

Excellent. Is this the work of that master strategist Lynton Crosby?
Did he get the Tories in a room, knock a few heads together, ignore their wailing, and explain to them in words of one syllable, how to win an election?

He's worth every penny!

He has established clear blue water between the public and Tories on one side and the progressives on the other.

He has kicked the ball into their court. If they now change their position and agree to 'cut the c**p', then they will be discredited, and if they don't then their hopes of success will be blighted. So, I urge Cameron to remain firm in resolve and remain with the people united.

TheOriginalSteamingNit Thu 21-Nov-13 10:06:56

Do you not have a problem with the fact that it was he who was spouting what he now admits he thinks was 'crap' in the first place, Claig? Does that not make you wonder about the guy's probity?

Beehatch Thu 21-Nov-13 10:10:25

Sorry, you lost me at the Daily Fail link [Hmm]

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 10:14:55

"Does that not make you wonder about the guy's probity?"

No I don't question his probity. I questioned his common sense to be taken in by the progrssives. But it now looks like he has finally got the message, has had a Damascene conversion on the road to the election and has probably listened to a real master Conservative strategist and tactician such as Lynton Crosby.

I think Luke said it best. I paraphrase what he said

"I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repenteth than over ninety-nine righteous Conservatives who need no repentance.”

TheOriginalSteamingNit Thu 21-Nov-13 10:18:30

Ah, so you think at the time he genuinely believed it but has now seen the light? And it was just lucky that saying he believed it might have broadened his appeal, pre-General Election?

TheOriginalSteamingNit Thu 21-Nov-13 10:19:21

And yes, I'm sure Jesus is rejoicing at this news!

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 21-Nov-13 10:23:16

Nit it is perfectly possible to change your mind about something you know, genuinely change your mind.

I used to be all for 'green' taxes and levies, believing that they might a) drive changes in behaviour, and b) raise money that could be used to develop more ecological ways of living.

Neither of those things have really happened, but energy costs have risen to the point that people are struggling to heat their homes and turn the lights on. That is unacceptable IMO so the taxes need to go.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 10:24:20

Yes, I think he either believed it then or did what the elite wanted him to do by following their global warming, green line.

But, I think now, a man from outside, an outsider, a wise man bearing gifts has come from Australia and has read the tea leaves and the mind of the British public and has told Cameron that he has to change his position and defy the elite and their green agenda if he wishes to win over the public.

Will Cameron have the courage and conviction to see it through, to face the brickbats thrown at him by the progressives on the Parliament benches and by the elite? Only time will tell?

But the public and the angels in Heaven all wish him Godspeed.

SteamWisher Thu 21-Nov-13 10:26:01

Global warming makes people think that we will get hot summers and less rain etc. which is why the climate change argument faces an uphill battle.

I think we should all be encouraged to take better care of the environments through reducing use of resources, wasting less food etc etc. not by blanket taxes etc which just get people's backs up and allow energy companies to blame the taxes for price increase, when actually they're fleecing us.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 10:43:03

Although, the news may not be as rosy as it seems. This may just be a story to cheer up the Daily Mail reader in the Season of Cheer and an attempt to spread some goodwill and hope to the Tory faithful as they read their energy bills in a bleak midwinter.

Maybe it is not for real, maybe the elite got to Cameron when he was abroad and away from the wise counsel of Lynton Crosby

"David Cameron Issues Stark Warning To Tory Climate Change Sceptics"

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/16/david-cameron-climate-change-tory_n_4286357.html

Only a strong leader with courage and conviction will be able to face down the pressure from the elite and their newspapers such as the Guardian over this issue.

Maybe Cameon is not that man. Maybe the task will fall to a man called Nigel Farage.

DontmindifIdo Thu 21-Nov-13 10:54:39

I read this earlier in the telegraph. I think it's actually rather a clever move by Cameron.

High energy prices are unpopular, and people are starting to get angry at the energy companies, and Labour's policies around price limits are proving popular. This way he can do something that has the effect of bringing down prices via lowering costs, without actually reducing the energy companies profits (win win). He gets to take credit for prices falling, rather than if the companies themselves lowered prices (which either the companies would take credit for, or the Labour party for "scaring them into proving htey don't need more regulation").

Calling green policies "crap" also is a very clever move, it suits the Telegraph reader/the traditional Tory voter who a) has a natural distrust for all government intervention and b) are more likely to not care about the environment/put caring for the environment in the same category as "Health and Safety" of being maddness.

The language also makes Cameron look more common, more "one of us" in a way calling it Green Nonesense or green rubbish wouldn't. By publicising him swearing, they are making him seem like a more normal person.

It also has the effect of causing a headache for the Labour party. They have to decide if they would put green policies back in place. They rely on an alliance of traditional working classes and socially concious middle classes for their vote. The socially concious middle classes are more likely to care about the environment and will want something done by a Labour government. However, by framing the green policies in terms of adding costs to poorer people, it'll be hard to put them back without the Tories claiming Labour will push up energy prices, not lower them.

It's a clever move for a variety of ways. If it will actually work and steal from the Labour party the mantal of being the party to suggest ways to sort out the high energy prices will come down to the actual cost effect - I don't think the green policies are enough to lower prices dramatically, which is what the public wants and what the Tories need to avoid Labour being able to have their "lower energy prices" attention/vote grabbing policy.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 10:55:57

"Tory high command has also privately abandoned Mr Cameron’s pre-election mantra ‘vote blue, go green’"

Maybe it is "Tory high command", whoever they are, who have changed this policy and maybe the skipper, Cameron, has to take account of the orders of the Admiralty.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 11:00:07

Very good analysis, DontmindifIdo. Spot on.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 12:18:59

The Daily Mail story has been updated already, sadly.

Daily Mail readers were going wild in the Comments section, green arrows were reaching stratospheric levels as the Daily Mail reader wished to regsiter approval of the 'cut the green c**p' message.

But it looks like the elite advisers, like the ones who advised Cameron to have a photo op with huskies in the Arctic Circle, may have stepped in to try and stem the Gadarene rush of the Daily Mail reader to click on green arrows.

'Downing Street source says they 'do not recognise' the green crap phrase'

What a shame!

OhYouBadBadKaleds Thu 21-Nov-13 12:23:34

Claig - please can you outline your reasons for agreeing with Cameron on this.

claig Thu 21-Nov-13 12:29:12

Because I believe that the green 'ecotaxes' on energy are a means of the elite to try and price ordinary people out of the necessities of life, such as fuel and heat and electricity, in order to curtail their standard of living, while simultaneously redistributing taxpayer money to rich landed aristocrats who profit by erecting inefficient windmills on their large estates.

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