If you're at all worried by damage to the environment...

(55 Posts)
PuzzledBear Sun 29-Sep-13 23:09:52

You might be interested in this campaign I've come across. They're trying to make the destruction of ecosystems a crime - ecocide - like genocide. If the proposal gets enough votes, it gets to be considered by the European Parliament. Have a look: [http://www.endecocide.eu/]

PuzzledBear Sun 29-Sep-13 23:11:24

Oh bugger, messed the link up. does this work?

WillPenn Mon 30-Sep-13 10:23:58

done!

Damnautocorrect Mon 30-Sep-13 10:28:15

Done

PuzzledBear Mon 30-Sep-13 11:52:23

Yay! Anyone else? I think this is a brilliant idea, could really transform the way people think.

flatpackhamster Mon 30-Sep-13 19:42:37

Have you actually read the act?

http://eradicatingecocide.com/overview/ecocide-act/

Just look at part 14. If you run a company, and someone who works for you does something that contravenes this act, you are guilty of the crime that the person who works for you carried out, regardless of whether or not you knew about it. How bonkers is that?

PuzzledBear Mon 30-Sep-13 20:02:06

As I understand it though, the signatures are just in order to have the idea discussed by the European Parliament, the next step is to try and make it law. The concept is new and so important, I think everyone should be trying to get this discussed seriously.

flatpackhamster Mon 30-Sep-13 20:05:19

I don't want it discussed by the European Parliament. It's a wicked plan.

Have you read the act? Did you know that it would be illegal to operate a nuclear power station under the act as it stands? It would also be illegal to operate many mining techniques and metal extraction techniques.

PuzzledBear Mon 30-Sep-13 20:11:03

A wicked plan? You don't want something even discussed? I am genuinely shocked. There are big problems with the way that we are currently exploiting the planet's resources, and unless people can intelligently discuss some alternative ways of approaching it, our children are basically fucked.

Slipshodsibyl Mon 30-Sep-13 20:15:03

Are there not already laws in place to deal with companies which pollute or otherwise break current environmental laws?

flatpackhamster Mon 30-Sep-13 20:22:15

PuzzledBear

A wicked plan?

Yes.

You don't want something even discussed? I am genuinely shocked.

No, I don't want this wicked 'act' discussed in parliament. I ask again, for a third time - have you read it? Please answer because I don't think you have.

There are big problems with the way that we are currently exploiting the planet's resources, and unless people can intelligently discuss some alternative ways of approaching it, our children are basically fucked.

This act wouldn't approach alternative ways of exploiting resources. It would essentially ban resource exploitation.

PuzzledBear Mon 30-Sep-13 20:24:20

Slipshodsibyl, I watched the clip of a talk given by the barrister spearheading this campaign, in which she raises this exact question. She points out that the existing legislation is clearly not working - you just have to look at what is happening to the Amazon to see that it is not working. We need a different approach, which is what this is intended to do.

flatpackhamster Mon 30-Sep-13 20:25:21

PuzzledBear

Slipshodsibyl, I watched the clip of a talk given by the barrister spearheading this campaign, in which she raises this exact question. She points out that the existing legislation is clearly not working - you just have to look at what is happening to the Amazon to see that it is not working. We need a different approach, which is what this is intended to do.

How do you propose to prosecute companies based outside the EU, operating outside the EU, under an EU law?

PuzzledBear Mon 30-Sep-13 20:26:59

Flatpackhamster, yes I have read it. The issue you raise about corporate liability is wrong I think - that clause states that the actions of a director or partner or person with senior responsibility may lead to liability. Not just any old employee.

PuzzledBear Mon 30-Sep-13 20:28:42

Flatpack, I think it's a reasonable example of how existing legislation is ineffective. Not an example of a situation which can be fixed by the limited remit of an EU law.

flatpackhamster Mon 30-Sep-13 20:33:10

PuzzledBear

Flatpackhamster, yes I have read it. The issue you raise about corporate liability is wrong I think - that clause states that the actions of a director or partner or person with senior responsibility may lead to liability. Not just any old employee.

So the act specifically makes ignorance of a crime carried out within your company a criminal offence.

If this act came in to law, who would run a company?

Flatpack, I think it's a reasonable example of how existing legislation is ineffective. Not an example of a situation which can be fixed by the limited remit of an EU law.

Then why bother the EU with such a stupid idea if it can't work?

PuzzledBear Mon 30-Sep-13 20:37:40

Because the problem is not limited to the Amazon, that's just a nice high profile example not requiring much explanation to help people understand the point.

BillyBanter Mon 30-Sep-13 20:50:24

Can you explain why you describe this as wicked rather than maybe misguided or unrealistic which would be terms I would think more likely to be used as criticism?

Talkinpeace Mon 30-Sep-13 21:27:49

sounds like a way for lawyers to earn lots of hefty fees rather than anything constructive to happen at all

pitterpaterfamilias Mon 30-Sep-13 21:37:57

Flatpack - the rate at which the world's resources are being destroyed is wicked. The complete disregard of many multinationals to any environmental responsibility is wicked. The wilful ignorance of those who support the unfettered free market that allows or condones this behaviour is wicked.

This proposal seeks to curtail this behaviour. The objections you have are absurd. You should be ashamed of yourself. We need aspirational proposals at this time, not self serving vested interests looking to block measures designed to safeguard our future and our children's future.

That is all.

Talkinpeace Mon 30-Sep-13 21:40:19

how will a court case in London save the Southern Ocean ?

PuzzledBear Mon 30-Sep-13 21:41:57

Doesn't a positive movement have to start somewhere, in some part of the world?

Talkinpeace Mon 30-Sep-13 21:43:34

probably, but lawyers in London is NOT the way.

BillyBanter Mon 30-Sep-13 21:44:15

According to that little video in the link they intend to take it to the UN.

Talkinpeace Mon 30-Sep-13 21:44:57

ah, even more people on sky high tax free salaries

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