My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

News

Badger Cull

160 replies

ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 07:33

Anyone have any opinions on the badger cull?
Or the protests surrounding them?

OP posts:
Report
northernlurker · 27/08/2013 07:39

TB in cattle is devastating for farmers. I'm not convinced the cull will work but the badger population will survive. If it helps badgers and farners co-exist then it's fine with me. I'm generally not a fan of animal rights protestors.

Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 07:47

That's essentially how I feel too.
Perhaps as a nation we are slightly sentimental when it comes to badgers?!

And yes about the protestors, I'm not sure that a lot of them fully comprehend the full situation before jumping on the band wagon.

OP posts:
Report
northernlurker · 27/08/2013 08:00

Anybody who's sentimental over badgers has never met one Grin

I don't want them to be treated cruelly but a cull isn't cruel per se.

Report
ILoveAFullFridge · 27/08/2013 08:03

My brother is a farmer with a science background, committed to green, eco-friendly practices in his work and life, and he believes that it is necessary.

Report
ILoveAFullFridge · 27/08/2013 08:11

I have met badgers. They are beautiful, interesting, relatively intelligent animals. Unfortunately human life has interfered with animal life so much that we have damaged the natural balances that kept populations stable. Any population wiuld normally have periods of boom and bust, as the proprtions of prey and predators, famine and plenty, varied. Badgers have virtually no predators any longer to keep their numbers in check.

Badgers are tough creatures and notoriously difficult to kill. At least the cull aims to try and kill them with the minimum if distress to the badger, rather than allowing the disgusting old 'sport' of badger-baiting.

Report
MrsDavidBowie · 27/08/2013 08:16

I have no problem with it, as I would have no problem with a fox cull.
I live near Richmond Park, and every year people get up in arms about the deer cull there.

Report
Abra1d · 27/08/2013 08:23

So many cows are being put down and it's so sad for the farmers, some of whom have spent generations building up herds. I like badgers but this can't go on.

Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 08:25

ILoveAFullFridge,

I hope that your brothers farm hasn't been too badly effected by TB.
I agree with you, badgers themselves (while not the friendliest of creatures!) are not the problem exactly. Their population numbers are out of control and the disease is rife.

My main bugbear is that many many people seem to value the life of a badger more than that of the culled cattle...and more than the quality of life of the farmers affected.

OP posts:
Report
lljkk · 27/08/2013 08:26

The only scientific analysis concluded that a cull would make the problem worse long-term. I can't see the logic of it.

Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 08:30

MrsDavidBowie,
How do you think they would react if they couldn't use the park because there were too many deer and it had become dangerous?! Or if it was declared deer territory, no humans allowed??

I feel quite strongly about it, but didnt want to be inflammatory in my thread title, so I'm pleased that I've found some rational people here. That said, I understand that not everyone feels the same, and that everyone is entitled to their opinion...I just wish that the coverage would be less one sided so that the general public were less misinformed.

OP posts:
Report
frostyfingers · 27/08/2013 09:16

I find it so frustrating that the news reporting is tipped so heavily towards the badgers - always pictures of them, never any of the cattle that are put down. In fact I have been corresponding with the RSCPA to try and establish why they value the life of a badger so much above that of a cow.....unsurprisingly they won't give me an answer.

It is hugely emotive and the demonstrators are trying very hard to paint those involved with culling as murderous maniacs whereas in reality no-one wants to see all the badgers killed, it would upset the balance of nature as much as having too many has upset it.

Let's hope a successful vaccine can be found quickly, I think in Ireland they were using a combination of vaccine and culling and felt that it was having some effect as a stop gap whilst they wait for a more reliable vaccine.

Report
hackmum · 27/08/2013 09:28

Oh, look, it's like the fracking debate all over again. The badger killers are all scientific and rational, while the antis are irrational and hysterical. Of course.

Then again, you could look at the evidence, or lack thereof. Here's the irrational and unscientific Ben Goldacre on the problems with culling badgers:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/jul/22/badger-cull-trials-cattle-tb

Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 09:29

FrostyFingers,

That is very eloquently put!

It seems to me the BBC is grilling Owen Paterson, but allowing the opposing side to set out their stall with a minimum of fuss!

OP posts:
Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 09:31

Hackmum,

That's the point, there is no more evidence against badger culling than there is for.

But we've tried controlling it in cattle and it's failing. It's a problem that has to be approached, so why not try this?

OP posts:
Report
frostyfingers · 27/08/2013 09:40

Here you go with the emotion Hackmum "badger killers" - that is why it's so hard to have a rational debate. Are you happy to have 100's of cattle put down, 100's of farmers losing their livelihoods, and ££££'s spent in compensation? At the same time 100's of badgers are also suffering......

I think everyone agrees that culling is not going to be the definitive answer, but at the moment it is the only way to try and get a grip on this disease whilst a vaccine is worked on. Something has to be done now, what do you suggest?

I'm not keen on fracking, but again it is impossible to have a rational debate - violent demonstrations, threatening and harassing people is not the way to stop something - that, more than anything is what I really don't like about the "antis". Some of the things that have been "promised" by those against the cull are downright violent and give those who do want to protest legally and peacefully a bad name.

Report
comingalongnicely · 27/08/2013 11:27

I don't have a problem with it. It's not something that's been entered into lightly, it certainly won't endanger the badger population as a whole as they're massively over populated at the moment.

It'll be interesting to see if Hedgehog numbers get a boost as they're direct victims of badger predation.

Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 11:33

That hadn't occurred to me comingalongnicely, thatwould be an excellent side effect!

And one that would encourage a little more interest from the general public I reckon. Hedgehogs are cuter even than badgers Smile

OP posts:
Report
WhatWillSantaBring · 27/08/2013 12:27

It does seem to come down to why a badger's life is valued more highly than a cow's. I presume the shooting of badgers is done at point blank range (i.e. as humanely as it is possible to euthanise any animal) as I heard this morning that they're trapped first - i.e. they're not just relying on marksmen.

Interesting parallels with the debate over managing the fox population. In all the years of the fox-hunting debate (which I don't want to open up here), the need for a human check on the fox population seemed to be accepted by both sides of the lobby, and the pro-ban/anti-hunt lobby argued (sucessfully) for the use of shooting to manage the population as the most humane solution. Yet now it seems that shooting another wild creature is in-humane. I'm genuinely confused.

There are two arguments, really, aren't there. One is over the need for human control over the wild animal population - is it or isn't required. The other is over the methods for doing so.

The hysteria surrounding debate on this (and fracking and hunting) really winds me up! You can't have a rational conversation, and people's views therefore become so polarised, that debate becomes a waste of time. The Daily Mail Radio Show Jeremy Vine had an awful feature yesterday with Clarissa D-W sounding a bit barking and a Labour MP who sounded grossly ill-informed.

Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 12:40

I'll tell you what polarises my opinion.

Brian May.

OP posts:
Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 12:42

Yes yes yes WhatWillSantaBring.

And when you consider the economic repercussions of cattle culling, preserving the badger population at its current level seems even less important.

I really really agree with your point re the shooting of foxes.

OP posts:
Report
frostyfingers · 27/08/2013 13:12

Brian May is in danger of losing all his credibility as an animal campaigner if this is accurate reporting.....

-
The musician and animal rights campaigner claimed that the only difference between critics of the charity and child abusers was that in RSPCA cases ?the creatures involved are non-human.?

He also warned that implementing a badger cull could ultimately lead to a return of the Dark Age practice of burning supposed witches at the stake.
--
I personally have never had much time for him on his animal welfare stand, but he certainly knows how to stir things up.

Report
frostyfingers · 27/08/2013 13:14

Whatwill - I have been in lengthy email correspondence with the RSPCA to try and establish what it is that badgers have over cattle but they will not answer that. Badgers have a better PR agency, I think to balance it out we need pictures of new born calves wobbling about on their too long legs!

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

valiumredhead · 27/08/2013 13:52

What northern lurker posted!

Report
ThursdayLast · 27/08/2013 16:59

That is so true, we need cute little calves crying out for their dead mummies...!

And then show people the dead cows that don't even have TB...

And then show them the meat that makes it into foodchain regardless...

OP posts:
Report
itsatiggerday · 27/08/2013 17:21

Matthew Parris wrote an interesting editorial on Saturday - not actually about badger culling, his point was about the reaction to David Miranda's arrest - but about the arguments people use to try and rationalise their point of view.

His point was that people often provide reasons for their argument but actually they just have a settled opinion so even if their reasons were discredited they would still hold to their view. So in Miranda's case, the protests were all justified with abuse of process etc and he agreed if there had been, it should be dealt with appropriately, but actually the pure left wing opinion is basically that the state shouldn't be able to use any kind of state intervention in the individual on the basis of intelligence / security etc and it would be a more helpful debate to acknowledge the underlying reason.

WRT badger culling, I think the same is true. It's not about the method of culling - how come shooting is good for foxes vs nasty hunting but too cruel for badgers - or about the lack of attention to the cost in the cattle or the human cost to farmers' livelihoods, the protests are based on a settled opinion that humans do not have the right to cause wildlife pain or detriment for our own benefit or convenience. At its purest, adherents will also be vegetarian / vegan and therefore remove the hypocrisy re cattle raised for meat.

The problem for them being actually honest about that is that lots of people who are instinctively squeamish about a badger cull would have more qualms about actually valuing badger welfare the same or higher than human welfare in as many words so there is more popular support if they fudge their reasons.

Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.