Mother and 2 children found dead - suicide/murder

(139 Posts)
ShaggingZumbaStylee Sun 14-Jul-13 00:46:10

It sounds like she was really struggling, but I find it so difficult to understand why she killed her children with her.

link

noddyholder Sun 14-Jul-13 22:48:28

Because you know absolutely nothing about those concerned You can think its a terrible crime and it is but your level of hate for the person who must have been in a terrible state that seems to be strange to me. You also seem hellbent on exonerating her partner. You hating like this does no good and tbh its bad for your health because it is going nowhere.

MrsDeVere Sun 14-Jul-13 22:48:32

I don't wish her to burn in hell.
I have no doubt she was desperate.

But she did kill two children and there is no escaping that fact.

Whatever her motives (and they do tend to be different from those of male family annihilators) she murdered those boys.

The ultimate in child abuse.

That does not make me full of hate. It makes me full of sadness that two little boys have been killed. I do not know how the two year old died but the other child died in a horrific way.

Being a feminist does not mean I cannot be horrified by this woman's actions.

noddyholder Sun 14-Jul-13 22:49:41

I agree horrified by her actions is something most people would feel. Sadness for those lives lost.

sunshine401 Sun 14-Jul-13 22:50:43

R.I.P poor young lives all taken far to soon. sad

mynameisslimshady Sun 14-Jul-13 22:55:22

I will be totally honest, I don't 'get' depression, I have been fortunate enough to have never had it and I really can't comprehend it at all.

So although my automatic response is to dismiss this woman as a cold blooded murderer, I have to try and imagine the depths she would have sank to to have done this (and if a previously loving Father had done this I would be saying the same).

Whatever peoples opinions of this woman are though, we have to remember that it won't be her reading them, it will be her family who have suffered so much already, so the hate for this woman should probably be kept off a public forum so as not to cause them more pain.

LtEveDallas Sun 14-Jul-13 22:55:44

You also seem hellbent on exonerating her partner No. If he assaulted her then he deserves to be punished. But as he hasn't yet had his day in court I will not jump to accuse him - innocent until proven guilty and all that.

I used him as an example, as well you know. Male family annihilators are never 'given the benefit of doubt' in the way that this woman has been.

You say that she 'must have been in a terrible state' but actually you don't know that. I find it chilling that it is reported that she asked a neighbour to take in her cat before she did it, if that is true, and not just neighbour gossip then that suggests a level of premeditation to me. Which just makes it worse.

sunshine401 Sun 14-Jul-13 23:00:57

Whatever peoples opinions of this woman are though, we have to remember that it won't be her reading them, it will be her family who have suffered so much already, so the hate for this woman should probably be kept off a public forum so as not to cause them more pain.

well said.

Those poor children sad My son is the same age as the poor boy she jumped with. RIP. So young, and such a horrible death- as all deaths are.

timtam23 Sun 14-Jul-13 23:16:27

MagicKey I was so sad to read about this too - my 2 boys are the same age as the little ones who died sad
Such a tragedy for those children, and how desperate she must have been to do what she did. I'm sure there will be a lot more background to this, which we are not aware of.
RIP all three of them

ineedtobreath Sun 14-Jul-13 23:25:26

You will never understand or know what was going through her mind unless u have been there
and let me tell you i have very recently there was alot of ea involved and it leaves you feeling like you want ti die i won't lie and say i haven't thought about it i have nobody who i would or could leave my dcs with and i would never leave them with my ex so maybe really think about what is your saying before saying it.
No one deserves to live or die as she and her sons r.i.p to them all

crossparsley Sun 14-Jul-13 23:28:04

The cat thing doesn't make it worse for me, really. People in otherwise psychotic states can be surprisingly responsible in other areas.

What upsets me is that if she had contacted anyone about her thoughts, there was a chance of this not happening. Anyone who perceives things to be so desperate that things would be better with their children dead (good heavens how terrible must that feel?) and tells someone about it, gets my sympathy right up until they go ahead and take all choices away from their children forever. It cannot possibly be worse to confess a murderous thought than to act on it.

I worked with someone who murdered his spouse in a psychotic state. He had been to A&E, desperate, beforehand, and they failed him and, more horribly, her. He is still responsible for what he did but he knew his feelings and thoughts were wrong, and his basic morality made him cry out for help before the worst happened. I don't know if this woman tried. If she didn't, we should condemn that inaction at the very least.

I wish there was a Samaritans for "if you are thinking of harming others". I know this is idealistic.

CuttedUpPear Mon 15-Jul-13 00:05:43

LtEve: "*I hope she burns in hell.*"
Yes you actually DID say that.

And your hate doesn't help anybody. Perhaps a little more love and understanding would have helped the poor woman, maybe not. But throwing more hate her way is really unpleasant.

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 06:05:38

Never said I didn't cutteduppear. My hating her isn't going to make those children a little less dead is it? I may be unpleasant, but this is how I feel about what she has done. It's how I feel about anyone that purposely takes another's life. I cannot understand her, I don't want to understand her.

I feel desperately sorry for those poor children, I feel desperately sorry for her family. For the people that are going to have to live with the knowledge of what she has done. But for her, nothing.

(My views on religion/heaven/hell are confused, I'm agnostic. But I'd like to think there is a special part of hell set aside for child murderers - but that's my view and mine alone I'm sure)

ExcuseTypos Mon 15-Jul-13 09:49:57

It's reported in the press this morning that this mum went missing on Dartmoor a few months ago, it took 24 hrs to find her and she was suffering from hyperthermia.

She tried to commit subside a few weeks ago after a row with her partner.

He is on trial next month for assaulting her.

She has a restraining order against him- which says a lot about his behaviour.

Her dc were taken into care but given back to her, her family have described her as 'gentle and vulnerable'.

I feel very sorry for everyone involverd, including and especially her.

Lteve: It's how I feel about anyone that purposely takes another's life

You're a soldier aren't you? confused

OnTheNingNangNong Mon 15-Jul-13 10:04:19

The whole story is a tragedy. It has affected the whole community.

The details of the story are absolutely horrific and I hope she and her children are in peace.

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 10:14:10

Yes summerrain, I am. Your point?

noddyholder Mon 15-Jul-13 10:18:00

Explains a lot

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 10:32:51

Ohh get you with the passive aggressive bolloks. Have the courage of your convictions and SAY what you mean.

I am a soldier. I have never killed anyone. No-one I know has purposely set out to murder 2 little children. I'm am sure that some of my comrades may well have killed during conflict, but I am equally sure that none of them have ever suffocated a 2 year old or thrown a 6 year old off a 100ft cliff.

She committed a terrible crime and does not deserve any sympathy from me.

OnTheNingNangNong Mon 15-Jul-13 10:33:27

The child wasn't thrown from a cliff.

CuttedUpPear Mon 15-Jul-13 10:38:28

I'm sorry I don't understand. What's the point of being a soldier and claiming to have never killed anyone? Surely you are in the position to kill if you have to/are told to, unlike the rest of us. It's only a matter of time and circumstance - or am I wrong? And how is suffocating a child worse than dropping a mortar bomb on their home, as our forces do in the middle east?

Also I know I am engaging with this nasty claptrap but it's not the point of the thread so I'm sorry about that.

MrsDeVere Mon 15-Jul-13 10:49:06

The children and her are dead.
Not at peace
I hate all that fucking bollocks.

Dead children should be alive, however they have died.

They are not at peace. They are dead.

I totally understand *ltEve's anger even if I do not agree with everything she says. She has the right to be angry at what happened. Just as others have the right to feel sorry for the woman.

It is an absolute truth that if this was a father this thread would be totally different in tone.

It is terrible that this poor woman felt she had no other way out than to take her own life and that of her children. It may be she feared them going into care again or to her exP.

But she killed two little boys. She murdered them. Its splitting hairs to say one was not chucked off a cliff. He was, he was just on his mother's shoulders at the time.

It is all so unbearable. So tragic.

If she had taken her own life my thoughts would have been with her parents and their grief. They still are but I cannot get past the loss of those little boys and the manner of their deaths.

OnTheNingNangNong Mon 15-Jul-13 11:01:25

I don't know. Perhaps because I can see the grief locally, that I hope the children are at peace. I have no qualms to say that she killed them, it shouldn't have happened. But it has happened.

The children were failed. But it doesn't mean I can't wish them peace after such horror.

dufflefluffle Mon 15-Jul-13 11:02:27

I used to think like you do LtEve and then I suffered a bout of depression. For the first time in my life I could understand how someone could go and take their children with them. Previously I could not understand even how anyone could take their own lives leaving children to cope with that stigma. I now understand that someone suffering from severe depression is not thinking in a rational or reasonable way.

LtEveDallas Mon 15-Jul-13 11:14:08

I'm sorry I don't understand. What's the point of being a soldier and claiming to have never killed anyone?

I'm not claiming anything cutteduppear, I have NEVER killed anyone. In fact quite the opposite, I helped a 12 year old CHILD give birth to her rapists baby during the Bosnia conflict. A British soldiers job is not to kill. A British soldiers job is to bring peace, sometimes the way that is achieved is in conflict (ie Iraq and Afghanistan) but in the majority of cases it is not.

(Oh and British soldiers do not drop mortar bombs, so no, you don't understand)

Thank you for your understanding MrsDV, I appreciate it. I am angry, yes. Two children are dead and in the most horrific and painful circumstances. I cannot get over that. I cannot get over the way in which she chose to end her children's lives. I get that she may have been depressed, and I get that depression is irrational and devastating, but the choice she made. The way she chose to murder her kids is just beyond me, beyond my understanding and I just cannot feel any compassion for her.

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