Shit - it's really kicking off in Egypt - again

[meditrina]

Here's the (almost identically named) thread from the demonstrations that led to the deposit. Of Mubarak

And an Army statement is expected shortly with the situation looking tense. Huge demonstrations, both pro and anti Morsi.

Is is a hiccup in a road to democracy - or is it a military coup?

[RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief]

You tend to find that when there's a popular revolution, things always get a lot worse before they get better. The various factions unite against the common oppressor but then once the oppressor gets deposed, the factions all realise they hate one another. They all fight gor ages before everyone grts fed up and realises thst they might have to compromise. I'm not optimistic short term.

[meditrina]

Here's the BBc page with live updates

I found it interesting to look back at what people were posting in January 2011, and the sense of optimism of what democracy would bring to Egypt.

[meditrina]

It's sounding more and more like a coup - rumours of Morsi deposition becoming better sourced and tanks close to the Presidential palace.

Perhaps the overthrow of Mubarak was actually coup part 1 (cold not have been achieved without military) and this then rounds it off. The military remain in control, and only those of whom they approve may rule; even those who win elections require such backing.

[AnyaKnowIt]

Sounds like Morsi has gone now

[MasterOfTheYoniverse]

Bardei was playing the american awaiting game as should be, always meant to be the pawn. And rightfully so.
Richman, I would really like to meet up at some point!

[meditrina]

The snag is, surely, that Morsi was democratically elected.

What there is now is conditional democracy. Or perhaps it was always like that? At time of the overthrow of Mubarak, it was also a military coup.

Like Russia, democracy is only permitted within strict limits?

[Timetoask]

All those poor female protestors raped. Horrible.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Looks like a military coup to me at the moment. If there's a new election organised, maybe the army will have played a constructive part but not otherwise. What the Egyptians are experiencing is the downside of all democratic societies i.e. the losers have to live with the outcome until there is another election. The way things are now they've got the worst of all worlds i.e. the tyranny of the minority backed by the military.. not democracy at all.

[niceguy2]

The Egyptian's have a major problem. Morsi was democratically elected. That much is commonly accepted. That said he did grant himself vast new powers which wasn't part of the deal.

But more urgently than that, Egypt needs stability. One of the reasons their economy is a mess is simply because companies like mine are refusing to invest anymore and others are pulling out. We lost two major deals following the first revolution which put us from profit to loss. Winning new deals is nigh on impossible. Despite the low costs, who in their right minds would stand up at a board meeting of directors and say "Hey...i have a great idea. Let's invest £100m in Egypt!"?

I've been many times through work and i've been very impressed with the Egyptian's work ethics and educational standards of their graduates.

But until they can stabilise their country their economy is going to keep plunging. I fear the people will keep protesting for a magic wand solution. I bet inside of six months there'll be protests against the army appointed government. After elections there'll be more against the new leader. And so on.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

Given that the coup is likely to lead to foreign governments suspending aid programmes as well, I can see that the economic position isn't going to improve. Those people who were protesting at Morsi's failure to improve the economy are going to be feeling equally let down by the new regime before long.

[cocolepew]

Absolutely horrific what is happening to the female protestors.

[bkgirl]

I don't get why the female protestors are being attacked sexually. Do these people not have wives, sisters, daughters etc? What way must they be treated? I thought the protestors were more liberal and no hardline islamic. I don't get it. Hopefully women will stay clear - including journalists. The people responsible are un-islamic.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Sexual violence is just another form of violence. The women these men attack are not - in their eyes - the same as their wives, daughters etc. They are non-people, de-humanised, 'the enemy', 'other' and not deserving of any mercy. Has nothing to do with religion & everything to do with power and aggression.

[AuntieStella]

Interesting comment on the news: the choreography of the take over by the military was so slick that it must have been months in the planning. So was Morsi's card marked right from his election?

After the decades of suppression of MB by the military, was their democratic victory just too much to stomach?

What are the limits of democracy? Or at least fair representation - the MB won after all.

[AuntieStella]

An update from this afternoon's news: there has been gunfire at a pro-Morsi demonstration, with casualties (Sky saying three or four dead plus unspecified number injured).

BBC article here.

[QueenofWhispers]

there goes my holiday. :(

[thenightsky]

When is your hol? I'm meant to be in Hurghada in Sept. There's nowt on thomson website about being cancelled.

[RoseFlowerFairy]

QueenofWhispers, there go many people's holidays , along with the lives of so many Egyptians .

[QueenofWhispers]

I do feel horrible about the people dying in Egypt-and all that raping+virginity checks-absolutely vile.

I was going to do a last minute trip to sharm. it's the only place I can afford.

[NicholasTeakozy]

Dozens killed overnight. Horrible situation.

[AuntieStella]

At least 42 dead, according to this BBC article and chain of events unclear: MB saying it was an attack by military on them as they began morning prayer. There's definitely footage of soldiers firing at crowd. Unverified of crowd shooting at soldiers.

It is looking considerably more tense and volatile. Even usually quite measured commentators are beginning to use more ominous language.

[meditrina]

[[http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23705532 Scores dead. Curfews. Military on the streets, suppressing those who support the deposed president (who had been democratically elected in adequately free/fair elections).

[LtEveDallas]

We've just come back from Hurghada. I am shocked by the news this morning, and concerned for friends who are out there now.

Whilst we were there you wouldn't have believed that there was anything going in. The hotel was packed, especially at the end of Ramadan when lots of locals joined in for the celebrations. The town was quiet, and all the excursions etc were carrying on regardless.

This morning the news is that a curfew is set between 7pm and 6 am and the FCO are advising against tourists leaving the hotel/resorts. Apparently (according to the hotels FB page) there was a 'peaceful' protest in the town yesterday - It's astounding how quickly things can change. On Monday when we left we were joking about how we didn't believe there was any unrest - we hadn't seen any news for 2 weeks, and Hurghada was quiet. 2 days later and a curfew is set. I am very shocked.