ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
Mandela critically ill(92 Posts)
Not unexpected but nevertheless sad.
Zuma confirms death of Nelson Mandela
Thought I'd bump this - Zuma "making an important announcement" prett much now.
I've been in South Africa since 2000 and am just about to move back to UK. Was just saying to my girlfriend last night that there are not many heroes left in the world that I look up to. Mandela was definitely one of them. Would love to go to his funeral when it eventually happens, but sadly the thought of being outside in a crowd in a major city in SA is just too frightening, but who knows it may all happen without any incident - I sincerely hope so.
They do say that your hearing is the last sense to go so if hes on that side of the hospital then he might hear, which would be nice.
Ah, thats nice, be good if he can hear.
Zuma cancelled overseas trip and Obama on his way here tho not to visit Mandela
I've just seen on the news that there are huge crowds outside the hospital today, and they're singing the old protest songs in his honour. I wonder if he can hear them?
"And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest"
Interesting to wonder whether Mandela would himself join the ANC as it currently stands with a weak leader lacking the full support/respect of the electorate. The lack of a decent opposition to challenge and question the gov is a major problem and enables the ANC to be complacent. Here's hoping that Agang grows and gets some popular support.
My intention isn't to insult, Cinnamon- up to you how you take my opinion, for that is what it is. Just as you have yours. No need to attack me for mine. A good (black) friend of mine also hates Zuma (who doesn't?) but sees him as a lesser evil than former apartheid governments. Why exactly do you think SA is going the way of Zim?
I have been to Alex and to similar townships/informal settlements in PE and CT, i work in one also, i do know what you're talking about, it is shocking how very little the ANC has delivered on its promises esp in regard to housing.
Agree, back to Madiba is a good idea.
I do think this thread is for Madiba and it should go back to that.
Yes Boomba I am a black South African.
It is quite insulting that you assume what us non-white people should or shouldnt be feeling. Why assume that because I am black that I should be hopeful? We have Zuma as a president at the moment and I can tell you, I am not happy about it either. The talk at the moment, especially by the younger generation is that Malema is the answer. Sadly, education is lacking and poverty is doing the thinking.
You should take a trip into Zanspruit or even Alex and see for yourself and feel the hopelessness.
cinnamom are you a Black African?
I have plenty of an idea, thank you, i live here!
Apologies for assuming you were white, had presumed so based on what you said, my mistake. Am truly sad that as a non-white person you're not more hopeful about the future, but fair enough.
Do you go to private hospitals or government hospitals? Private schools or rural government schools? If you have not sat at Joburg Gen on a friday night, you have no idea.
Salbertina I cannot speak for white South Africans. Quite telling that you have assumed that I am white, which I am not. By you saying that we are not heading for Zim, I will assume you are white and live in the suburbs so dont see and feel what the majority do. Life in SA is heading the same way as Zim for the majority of people.
Cinnamom- as you've lived in SA since the 70s, you doubtless will have experienced huge change... Also in your personal standard living, I'm guessing, which for most white people has fallen dramatically in real terms since the end of apartheid. But this is democracy, yes, it's corrupt, muddled and inefficient but a damn sight better for the vast majority than under apartheid!
I hear often- always from white friends- how this country is "going to the dogs" and feel incensed! Of course their apartheid privileges have ceased, that is fair and proper. Their incredible advantages- education, access to the bank of mum and dad and inherited wealth - live on and enable them to secure that bond on a nice 5-bed, 3-bath in a naice area Many whites here still live an unbelievably privileged life, fair dues if this feels on borrowed time!
I'm sure its different from a white and a black perspective too. And poor and rich
Well i probably live in a different part and obv experience a different life as am a different person .. So of course, matter of opinion. I am no apologist for Zuma and his cronies either.
Back to Mandela anyone?
Salbertina I do live here (I was born in Zimbabwe and moved to SA in 1979). I DO believe we are going the same way as Zim. Unless you live in a different SA to me.
What are those reasons Salbertina? I'm genuinely interested. I have family in SA and Zim and just booked flights to go see them with the kids soon. Everyone thinks I'm bonkers!
Well, i live here. I do not believe a Zim situation will happen for all sorts of reasons.
Lets hope not wannabe
I've always refused to believe that SA will go the same way as Zimbabwe.
I'm back in the UK now after 6 years in SA. I couldn't justify exposing my daughter to the ridiculous levels of violent crime and ever present thread of rape anymore.
I think that SA will go the same way as Zimbabwe tbh.
There is lots of conspiracy out there that he is already dead and has been for a long time!
I see what you're saying then- you mean currently, as rests with ANC gov? To a large extent i agree, but am more hopeful in medium term. I think SA is muddling through lots of issues and it is a messy, time-consuming and unwieldy process. I do think MAdiba's legacy lives on despite this current mess. Where is the country without hope?
I hope they let him go peacefully. He's an old man and his life's achievements are truly remarkable. But I'll be very sad when it happens, partly because of what he stands for (freedom and justice) and partly because supporting the ANC was a defining part of my youth and the day of his release one of the days I will never forget, when the world looked brighter. For much of the 80s when I was campaigning we seriously thought he would rot and die in prison even while we campaigned for his release. This is said without romanticising what he did. I don't think MK (Spear of the Nation) should be airbrushed out of the picture and Mandela painted as some non-violent saint - he was a realistic fighter for freedom and justice, and in the final instance he was prepared to resort to armed struggle. That happened and although I don't think it should be glorified, we should remember the struggle as it was. But in his ability to forgive those who imprisoned him and move on without bitterness, and his determination to convert armed struggle to political struggle at every opportunity, he was truly an inspiration. Now's his time to go, and I wish him the very best.
It's taking a lot for me to have negative thoughts about South Africa. But I can't help feeling an overwhelming sense of disappointment. The 'new South Africa' was a dream coming true for me. I was a young student in Political Science when Mandela got released. I attended one of his first speeches after release, at the UP campus. What he has done for the country cannot ever be measured. He has prevented civil war after Chris Hani's assassination, I don't think too many people realise how close we were to an actual civil war. He was the last great statesman South Africa has seen.
I don't see Mandela's ideals are what the current government has in mind. Many millions of black people are still poor, still suffer indignity, but this time at the hands of their own people. The ANC VERY clearly does not care one single ounce about the wellbeing of its voters. Intimidation and corruption is incredibly rife. Most current politicians are only looking to line their own pockets.
This is why I'm saying Madiba's legacy is dead.
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