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Toby Young - women don't want most childcare either

(594 Posts)
Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 13:44:26

Toby Young in today's Sunday Telegraph magazine Stella argues men do not want even more boring mindless childcare. Well nor do women. So the answer is have good careers as women and then you can avoid that dullness. It is not a gender issue. Clearing up sick is as boring for women as men. Lower earners may well be shunted into that dull stuff and to keep the higher earner man they have to do it but Mr Young needs to know plenty of women don't want to do more childcare either. I always thought two hours a day was pretty good including weekends. Too much more and you'd rather be doing other things.

wordfactory Fri 03-May-13 16:00:00

I dare you to say that on the next SAHM v WOHM debate on MN.

The SAHMs regularly profess that looking after DC is The Hardest Job In The World!

Bonsoir Fri 03-May-13 16:02:59

I never say it's the hardest job in the world! I've always thought it's dead easy compared to any paid job I've ever had.

I have two stepsons and a daughter, FloggingMolly. Stepsons for whom I have always taken the lion's share of the non-financial responsibility.

Badvoc Fri 03-May-13 16:05:04

Some days It can be hard, wordfactory.
If the mother has pnd (which doesn't mean she hates being a mother, it means she has a chemical imbalance that is treatable)
If the child has sn/sen.
If the child is ill a lot.
If the dh/dp is not supportive....
Luckily only the first 3 applied to me.
Some days it is a complete joy.
Waking up, cuddling in bed, a leisurely breakfast and then an adventure smile

Bonsoir Fri 03-May-13 16:07:14

Anything can be hard if you have mental or physical illness to contend with. But in normal circumstances (and most families - fortunately - do not have to contend with illness) I really think that anyone who finds parenting hard work needs their head read.

Bonsoir Fri 03-May-13 16:07:41

If it isn't fun and enjoyable, why bother, after all?

wordfactory Fri 03-May-13 16:10:10

Oh Bonsoir I'd love to quote you on that during the nest bun fight! You will be strung up by the martyre Mummy brigade!!! grin

(I wouldn't of course).

Bonsoir Fri 03-May-13 16:12:01

Oh you can quote me all you like! I have never hidden the fact that I don't think parenting (and even stepparenting) is difficult.

Like any management role, you just need to be sure of where you are heading and to lead everyone there with you.

infamouspoo Fri 03-May-13 16:34:19

I find myself agreeing with Bonsoir rather surprisngly. Non-sn kids are pretty easy to parent. It can be made difficult. But a lot of jobs are the same. You can do 20 hours a day and make yourself a martyr or you can get a decent balance.

infamouspoo Fri 03-May-13 16:34:50

<prepares to be flamed from evey angle so holds out fag to be lit>
grin

Xenia Fri 03-May-13 16:45:08

Having a breastfeeding baby, a 1 or 2 year old and a 4 year old which we had and 3 little chldren the ages TY's have been is hrad work if you have them on your own because they all want things at the same time, the baby is on the breast every 2 hours or so and the toddler is meanwhile doing all the things toddlers do. At the same time 3 of them generate an awful lot of mess on a continuous basis whilst you have to clear it up. If you have 3 still in nappies at night that is a lot of work too. We have a lovely photo of them lying down in cloth nappies in a line - new baby, 1 year old and 3 year old. Lots of fun but very hard work and not something everyone male or female wants to spend 12 hour days doing.

Bonsoir Fri 03-May-13 16:48:26

If you don't want to do it and find it hard to have three in nappies, why have them so close together? It makes absolutely no sense.

Bonsoir Fri 03-May-13 16:51:50

I never personally understood why having DCs in nappies is so hard (though I didn't bother with cloth ones). It seemed to me a lot more trouble when they were out of nappies but still not really able to control themselves and always needed the loo when they had just got to the park or the supermarket.

dogsandcats Fri 03-May-13 16:55:26

I like your use of the word "lead" there.
I am sure some of mine would say they were "dragged".

dogsandcats Fri 03-May-13 16:56:59

Post was to Bonsior.
Neber mind. Posts have moved on!

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 03-May-13 16:57:07

Different people find different things hard.

Doesn't mean they need their heads read.

Arisbottle Fri 03-May-13 19:00:51

I have four children of my own and a stepson, I have never found parenting hard, much easier than my day job as a teacher and that isn't particularly hard work either.

Badvoc Fri 03-May-13 19:06:32

I had a 5.5 year gap between mine so it was easier in that way.
But it has meant I have been a sahm for a decade smile

Portofino Fri 03-May-13 20:09:51

You never had 3 in nappies though, Bonsoir, so how could you possibly comment?

Bonsoir Fri 03-May-13 20:13:20

I can comment because I wouldn't have been that stupid.

Floggingmolly Fri 03-May-13 20:24:21

You wouldn't have been that stupid, Bonsoir...
So, by definition, that would have been very hard work indeed, is that what you're saying?

infamouspoo Fri 03-May-13 20:38:41

I had 3 in nappies. Just saying. But I have gained perspective since.

Xenia Fri 03-May-13 21:28:11

I am just saying most parents have two or three close together for lots of good reasons and most parents do work and plenty of full time working parents have help with childcare and it works well. It's terribly nice for children to have close siblings even if it makes it harder work for those looking after them.

Anyway the bottom line is if you accept sexism at home and the myth that because you are female you are the only sex fit or able to tolerate cleaning and childcare you pander to that male myth and end up with a pretty rotten life for yourself whilst also hindering the cause of women.

Having a lot of children including some close together was one of the best things I have ever done. It is wonderful and if you have a daily nanny from 8 - 6 that is just about the perfect solution and you earn a lot and have work you adore. Nothing better.

Bonsoir Fri 03-May-13 21:35:32

Having close siblings is awful! At my DD's school, where the parents are pretty sophisticated, there is rarely less than a four year gap between siblings. Siblings hate living on top of one another - children need room yo breathe and develop without the constant presence of a sibling that is close to them in age and with whom they are supposed to spend all their time.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Fri 03-May-13 21:38:31

Any chance we could talk about Toby Young? No?

Off for wine then.

exoticfruits Fri 03-May-13 21:59:44

It wouldn't be the perfect solution to me. It isn't possible to have 'A perfect solution'- we are all different. Someone's 'perfect' is bound to be someone else's nightmare - which seems pretty healthy to me.

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