Toby Young - women don't want most childcare either

(594 Posts)
Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 13:44:26

Toby Young in today's Sunday Telegraph magazine Stella argues men do not want even more boring mindless childcare. Well nor do women. So the answer is have good careers as women and then you can avoid that dullness. It is not a gender issue. Clearing up sick is as boring for women as men. Lower earners may well be shunted into that dull stuff and to keep the higher earner man they have to do it but Mr Young needs to know plenty of women don't want to do more childcare either. I always thought two hours a day was pretty good including weekends. Too much more and you'd rather be doing other things.

Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 13:47:17

He says women are wracked with guilt. Not so. Plenty of us know if we earn a fortune, pay 5 sets of school fees, have that good hour with the children we are doing much more for our children than impoverished journalists who resent their time doing homework supervision.

LadyMountbatten Sun 28-Apr-13 13:48:02

Although increasingly I agree with the main thrust of your campaign, the one thing you have never cleared up Xenia, is how you stood these lower earning types looking after your kids.

Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 13:49:25

Gosh he has no idea. Now he's saying working women let their husbands spend all weekend playing golf and housewives don't. In fact most working parents of either sexes realise it's only fair childcare is fairly shared at weekends.

His main problem is marrying a low earner who is just a housewife. Had he married a real woman with a career who out earns him and funds school fees all his problems would be over. His problems come from his sexist set up. He needs a Xenia weekend Feminism immersion course.

HandMini Sun 28-Apr-13 13:50:24

Xenia, are you saying it was pretty good to spend two hours a day with your children plus all day at weekends, or only two hours a day at weekends as well?

KippersAndMackerel Sun 28-Apr-13 13:52:27

biscuit Parenting involves seeing your children....

Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 13:52:45

2 hours at weekends would have been ideal plus breast feeding time but it was of course much more and there are 5 children so sometimes it's nice to have one and not some of the others and spread it around. I do know that I need a good few hours every day alone and that has always worked very well when it's been manageable.

As the Telegraph now has a paid fire wall I cannot post a link so I don't think we're going to get very far on the thread. I just found Toby Y so very very sexist.

HomeworkAgain Sun 28-Apr-13 13:52:59

So only women with highflying careers are 'real women? hmm

TheBookofRuth Sun 28-Apr-13 13:57:18

Yes, Homework, apparently all the others are imaginary.

Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 13:59:10

He certainly needs his prejudices overturned.
He wishes his housewife was a 50s one so that at weekends nothing is split and she is the only one dealing with children whether when he's working or otherwise and he never raises a finger. I suppose if he had imported a foreign bride or earned £100m he may be able to have such an unfair set up at home but he hasn't so he has to do his fair share which seems to annoy him. Why he thinks women should be more burdened than men is beyond me.

tribpot Sun 28-Apr-13 13:59:51

Whilst I disagree with much of your rhetoric Xenia I fully agree that Toby Young needs a Xenia Weekend Feminism Immersion course.

I notice that among his sexism he claims to speak for all men, and the entire gender does not want to do more childcare.

Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 14:04:23

Yes, and I was cross I could not post my comments on the site due to their new paid firewall.

Some of his points are true of people of both sexes - most of us prefer to play with children rather than force them to do homework they don't want to do. He seems to regard that as against their human rights but is happy to let his wife play the bad guy. He just sounds a nightmare to be married to.

Despite his good degree he cannot even afford to pay school fees so has to try to found a free school and didn't have the sense to marry a wife who could afford to pay 4 sets of school fees either. Normally the not very high earner men have to make up for that by doing a heap of house cleaning and childcare. So because of his career choice he is lumbered with more of the children and cooking and cleaning and washing than he likes and now he chooses to moan about it in public.

dogsandcats Sun 28-Apr-13 14:05:32

If you have 5 children, you influence and guidance upon them would have meant approx 26 minutes each per day.

louisianablue2000 Sun 28-Apr-13 14:05:55

He obviously hasn't spoken to my lovely DH who is currently washing up the dishes after lunch and looking after the kids (there's an incredible art creation happening in the dining room) while I blitz the study mumsnet.

LadyMountbatten Sun 28-Apr-13 14:06:05

"...didn't have the sense to marry a wife who could afford to pay 4 sets of school fees either."

sometimes you wonder why people are divorced, dont you grin

Prejudice.

Preconceived opinion not based on reason or experience.

You have a fair few of those yourself Xenia.

infamouspoo Sun 28-Apr-13 14:14:27

while I disagree with most of what you write Xenia (real women etc) TY is an arse in too many ways to count.

pickledginger Sun 28-Apr-13 14:15:19

You made the mistake of reading something by Toby Young. He is a monumental fuckwit. Not a nice monument with architectural and historical value. The kind of things they put up near retail parks.

musu Sun 28-Apr-13 14:29:56

working women want to spend every spare minute with their children to assuage the guilt they feel about not having seen them during the week

Toby, not all of us working women feel like that.

When ds was younger I couldn't wait to go back to work after the weekend as, frankly, I found it boring looking after him. As a woman I'm not supposed to admit that, ever.

Ds is 8 now but now varies between being completely charming (as he was when we visited friends this morning) to shouting and being incredibly difficult (yesterday morning).

I don't feel guilty about working. Ds does some boarding and I don't feel guilty about that either. I don't think childcare is about spending every waking minute with your offspring.

Xenia Sun 28-Apr-13 14:56:56

Yes, musu, what he writes about men he assumes is not the same for women but he is wrong. ]
He writes that previously before children people cannot wait for the weekend. Once you have 3 under 5s you cannot wait for Monday. It is the same with most working parents, not a gendered thing at all. He even ad,its his wife does not like the nasty bits of being parent but presumably as she married a sexist man or had no real earning power she had got lumbered with the nasty bits.

blueshoes Sun 28-Apr-13 15:35:50

How much research did this journalist do for his article? He seems to have cut-and-pasted every cliche about women and tried to pass it off as interesting.

I agree that he is a bum deal for his wife.

dogsandcats Sun 28-Apr-13 15:41:29

Xenia, can I ask you a question please?
Do you filter out bits of your life, or conversation, that you dont like?

[I presume you wont like this question, so it will be filtered out]?

ouryve Sun 28-Apr-13 15:45:00

A real woman, Xenia? hmm

ouryve Sun 28-Apr-13 15:46:13

I'm a complex woman, btw. I have both a real and an imaginary component grin

Snazzynewyear Sun 28-Apr-13 15:48:17

Toby Young is an idiot. Totally agree with your anger about this Xenia. Probably as well there's a paywall - why justify this rubbish with more hits?

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