Raid on bank accounts in Cyprus

(358 Posts)
MrsJREwing Sun 17-Mar-13 03:46:09

Nearly 10% of savings will be taxed from private individuals savings, to save the banks.

edam Mon 18-Mar-13 17:26:42

Cote - are you talking about a completely different tax? Council tax is horribly regressive as the top band is based on 1991 values. So a house that is now worth £2m pays the same as a house that is now worth £750k. Obviously if you have a house worth £750k you are unlikely to be desperately poor - otherwise you'd have sold the house. But still, it's unfair that someone more than twice as wealthy as you only has to pay the same amount.

CoteDAzur Mon 18-Mar-13 17:34:44

Sorry if I have misunderstood but the point I was trying to make was that you may very well be living on a small salary or a pension in Central London, in a small flat, which is now worth over 750K (but was bought a long time ago for a fraction of that).

I did ask the question how the values of these houses were to be assessed about two hours ago and I don't think anyone answered.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 18:47:27

Cote you are right about the difficulty in valuing the properties. It will require a complete reassessment of all properties and that will mean that millions of ordinary people will end up being taxed more. That is why Osborne is against it.

Andrew Neil questioned a LibDem who supports it, and she was all over teh place and didn't have a clue about the valuations. Then Labour jumped in and said they wanted a mansion tax, but when Andrew Neil questioned Balls he was all over the place about valuation too.

None of them want to get into the nitty-gritty of valuations, because then they would have to fess up and tell us that they intend to tax all of us more.

flatbread Mon 18-Mar-13 18:54:43

Yes, the Cyprus banks were very exposed to Greek debt. But fiscal prudence has nothing to do with it. Osborne is wrong to say that fiscal prudence (e.g., cuts in government spending) would have 'saved' Cyprus. It is nonsense, as the issue is too-big-to-fail banks

In fact, the problem with UK is exactly the same. Our banking sector is dangerously large as compared to our economy. But we can devalue and print money, if we need to. And so can the Swiss. And in fact, that s what Iceland did in part when it had a meltdown like Cyprus. Again, nothing to do with irresponsible public spending but everything to do with reckless risks by private banks that had to be bailed out.

lainiekazan Mon 18-Mar-13 19:02:05

It's funny, a few weeks ago I received an e-mail from a money advice site suggesting this very thing might happen in the UK. Ha ha, I thought, and deleted. But...

I know that Italians are in their droves taking money out of Italy and purchasing property in the UK.

Mansion tax? On the face of it it doesn't sound unreasonable - as long as it was set high enough. I get sick of pensioners complaining that they are on a small income in a large house that has gone up in value. Surely unearned income should be more fair game than that which has actually been grafted for?

flatbread Mon 18-Mar-13 19:06:50

Valuations on property are not that difficult, given that we have land registry prices.

In Scotland, every house that is on the market requires an independent home report with a valuation. Something similar could be done for all properties, with the cost of the report deducted from your first year property tax liabilities. In addition, the home report gives energy-ratings, and properties that are green could get a discount on property tax.

It is perfectly possible that some people are asset-rich are cash-poor because they brought their property eons ago. Nonetheless, incomes have gone up in the last two decades and the council tax bands are way too low and inadequately spaced. For pensioners, the government could have a deferred tax that when the property changes hands, they recoup the property tax lability.

flatbread Mon 18-Mar-13 19:10:14

Laine, that is interesting. Is this after the Cyprus fiasco or before?

I talked with a friend in France, and she was quite complacent that nothing woud happen there.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 19:30:03

flatbread, it would be political suicide to tax us further. Channel 4 has an item on "Zombie Britain" where the economy is in a zombie state with people struggling to pay their bills. Payday loan companies are on many high streets.

Any tax rises on ordinary people will be a disaster for teh political party implementing them. That's why Eric Pickles has capped council tax increases and why Osborne will not revalue homes. Labour have tried to embarrass the LibDems by calling their bluff on the mansion tax, knowing that if they did it, then it would spell the end of the Coalition's chances.

flatbread Mon 18-Mar-13 20:03:00

Claig, it may well be the case that they freeze it at the moment, but at some point they will need to address the issue. The bands don't make sense and are regressive.

edam Mon 18-Mar-13 20:10:21

Claig, I know it would be difficult to re-value without ruddy politicians sneaking in a tax rise but in theory you could re-value while making sure Bands A-G, say, didn't have to pay more than they are now. But you add a new range of higher bands so those at the top end are paying their fair share; that the burden of council tax is shared more fairly among the different centiles, rather than the top 25% or whatever it is paying the same rate as the next 25% down.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 20:11:48

Yes, we all know who will probably do it. The socialist progressives. It is true that the Tories might trick us and do it after they get in next time, if they do.

There is now a propaganda programme on Channel 4 showing us rich pensioners and how they should have their benefits cut.

They want to divide and rule us and cut more benefits for people.

Cameron has promised not to touch pensioner benefits, but how long can he resist the prpaganda of the progressives who are itching for their mansion tax and benefit cuts on pensioners?

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 20:17:16

Agree edam that would be good. But why didn't Balls say they would do that? Because that is not what they intend to do.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 20:22:30

Sickening propaganda. There are pensioners living in one room in order to be able to heat their homes and these progressives are showing youths recording rap videos and arguing that they need more money that the frail pensioners.

All the progressive elite discussing how they will cut the benefits of poor pensioners because they are lording it up.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 20:25:18

It is the same elite and their think tanks that want to steal the money from ordinary people's bank accounts in Cyprus, because they say they too have lorded it up.

CoteDAzur Mon 18-Mar-13 20:39:22

I wish you would stop ranting about the elite in multiple consecutive posts.

This is how you kill every thread on economy & financial crisis.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 20:44:27

Tory MP Douglas Carswell added: ‘We should all be extremely worried about this. It shows that ordinary Europeans are being fleeced by the Continent’s elite in order to rescue foolish banks

Just because you are not aware of what is going on with the elites and Northern Cyprius, doesn't mean I won't correct you.

CoteDAzur Mon 18-Mar-13 20:51:13

"Valuations on property are not that difficult, given that we have land registry prices"

Those can give average prices in your city or your neighbourhood, but how to value the flat with sea view or one that hasn't been renovated since the '50s? Average prices mean very little when valuing individual properties.

I bought a house 10 years ago for x. It appreciated a bit in value, plus I renovated it up to a great standard, so I sold it for 2x. What does that mean for the house next to me that was bought 30 years ago for 0.2x and has never been renovated? Very little.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 20:52:29

Even the Guardian knows that the elite is behind it, unlike you.

There are winners, of course. They number the hedge funds of Mayfair that bought Cyprus government debt betting that the euro elite would implement just such a stupid scheme

'What's different this time is the nakedness of the Cyprus heist. The right can jump up and down at a massive infringement of property rights. The left can fulminate at the obvious social unjustness of such a tax, levied even while the banks are shut. However the Brussels elite might thus seek to defend their plan, they have managed to offend all sides – and so blown a huge hole in the credibility of the eurozone.'

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/18/cyprus-savings-raid-bank-robbery

CoteDAzur Mon 18-Mar-13 20:59:52

craig - Surely someone must have mentioned this to you before, but your posts on these economy threads make you look like a loon.

I'm more familiar with Northern Cyprus than you can hope to be by reading Wikipedia and Daily Mail. And you haven't corrected me at any point. It is not now and has never been part of the EU.

And your obsession with "the elite" is a bit embarrassing and makes you look like a conspiracy theorist with a tin foil hat.

Hope that helps smile

CoteDAzur Mon 18-Mar-13 21:04:06

They are using the term "Brussels elite" to mean "EU technocrats based in Brussels". Not some secret organization of the rich and famous who rule the world in secret.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 21:06:26

Cote, I am a conspiracy theorist, but that is why I understand who is behind it.

And you're so familiar with Northern Cyprus that you weren't aware that it was de jure part of the EU. I trust wikipedia more than your views, particularly as you don't even realise what is being done and who is behind it.

Hope that helps grin

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 21:12:20

Osborne does not want everyone's council tax to increase, and doesn't want inspectors valuing everyone's house

' It means you have to send inspectors round the country valuing all the homes, not just the homes worth over £2 million but those worth less."

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9879284/George-Osborne-Mansion-tax-a-con-that-threatens-all-home-owners.html

Prescott had the following plans

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prescott-satellite-to-spy-on-your-home-521295.html

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 21:17:14

Cote, the Brussels elite is unaccountable and undemocratic. The Cyprus government are elected by the people but are mere puppets of an unaccountable elite - they are powerless against them and have to do as they are told.

The people in Brussels in the parliament aren't the real elite, they are only functionaries - the real elite are the hedge funds and financiers who are really in control of policy and who are really imposing a haircut on the people of Cyprus in order to rescue the banks.

The Guardian is nearly there with its understanding.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 21:24:46

And it is the real elites - not the politicians, for they are here today, gone tomoorow functionaries - who have milked the world population with their financial crash and who are imposing austerity on the people, and they are doing it to cut the rights and benefits of people (with pensioners being the next target, hence their TV programmes to soften people up) and to control the finances of the Eurozone as they have shown by the message that they deliberately sent to the world with the Cyprus bank deposit levy.

claig Mon 18-Mar-13 21:27:23

What they have done in Cyprus is almost unprecedented and they picked a small country in which to try it. The news said today that never in a Western European country has a bank holiday lasted so long.

The amount of money involved is peanuts compared with the overall rescues that they have been carrying out, but they did it to send a message.

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