Palestinian rocket killed bbc journalist's baby in Gaza

(311 Posts)
Kungfutea Wed 13-Mar-13 00:40:56

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/mar/12/palestinian-rocket-killed-baby-gaza

I thought this may be of interest considering how much exposure the original story (blaming Israel) got.

Bessie123 Mon 01-Apr-13 01:30:52

Wow, this thread is something else.

kungfutea I think you are amazing. You have persisted with a rational, clear, balanced argument despite crazy, biased, incoherent ranting from people who will not even think about what you are saying. You are very patient but I think you might be wasting your time (although if it helps, you have educated me grin).

Btw though, I have been spat at by an Israeli man in Israel, when I asked him to stop revving his motorbike next to me while I was on a pay phone (obviously, this anecdote will make it clear to some that I am a rabid Jew with a virulent hatred of Palestinians)

Kungfutea Mon 01-Apr-13 04:39:02

Thank you Bessie! That's really nice of you to say so and certainly much appreciated.

Unfortunately, Israelis can be a bit rough around the edges (to put it mildly) which often led to some rather interesting situations with my very English side of the family on one side and my very Israeli side on the other - never got as far as spitting though!

Mondrian Mon 01-Apr-13 09:37:25

Unfortunately you will have to wait for a full answer as I am away from computer till Wednesday however I will keep things rolling by addressing your reply point by point, BTW thanks for replying to each point.
1-al Durrah video.
Either post a link to the original broadcasted clip or offer an explanation as to why its been taken off youtube, you have done neither but instead accused me of saying "Zionist control of youtube" for the record I have not actually used the word "Zionist" on any of my postings. But it is interesting that you feel the need to turn my words into something more dramatic with racial overtones while dodging the question all together.

Kungfutea Mon 01-Apr-13 12:22:58

I don't think I need to prove your conspiracy theories.
You made the statement, you provide the evidence to support it if you can (you can't, it was a ridiculous and outlandish claim).

Is zionist a racial term? I didn't know that.

And as for dodging the question...in the same time you posted that response, couldn't you have said how you made your racist assumptions about the religion of each poster or at least apologised.

Mondrian Mon 01-Apr-13 17:02:49

If you want to dodge the questions its fine by me as I didn't expect you to answer either one on grounds of self discrimination. Lets proceed ...

2- Ben Gurion and if he was backed by US Jews vs the British. Please find below a paragraph from the link stated earlier www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/60297/David-Ben-Gurion

.... As the Jewish settlement strengthened and deepened its roots in Palestine, anxiety mounted among the Palestinian Arabs, resulting in violent clashes between the two communities. In 1939 Britain changed its Middle East policy, abandoning its sympathetic stand toward the Jews and adopting a sympathetic attitude toward the Arabs, leading to severe restrictions on Jewish immigration and settlement in Palestine. Ben-Gurion reacted by calling upon the Jewish community to rise against England, thus heralding the decade of “fighting Zionism.” On May 12, 1942, he assembled an emergency conference of American Zionists in New York City; the convention decided upon the establishment of a Jewish commonwealth in Palestine after the war. At the end of World War II, Ben-Gurion again led the Jewish community in its successful struggle against the British mandate ...

Bessie123 Mon 01-Apr-13 17:04:26

But what you actually said was that Ben Gurion was a US Jew

Kungfutea Mon 01-Apr-13 17:23:19

And there's nothing there about him being us backed either. He went to a conference there!

So in addition to racist comments, you know tiddly squat about Israeli history.

How did you decide which poster was Jewish and which wasn't? Only one poster said.

Mondrian Mon 01-Apr-13 17:53:15

3- assuming all posters on site are Jewish.
Since I joined the thread 2 other posters have said they are Jewish ... both initially supporting your view although the first one seems to have veered off to a more liberal view which is different to yours. I am being racist to suggest 2 (or one) other Jewish person has supported you ... lets see what oxford dictionary defines as racism; the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

Mondrian Mon 01-Apr-13 18:03:32

In not of my postings have I addressed all Israeilis or the entire Jewish community in a derogatory manner just you and those who supported you view so please dont call me racist as it merely highlights your hindrance in basic English or your eagerness to play the victim card.

Kungfutea Mon 01-Apr-13 18:14:17

Only one poster said she was Jewish (she didn't say she agreed, she said she found it interesting, its called a discussion). How did you know the religion of the rest?

Kungfutea Mon 01-Apr-13 18:24:41

I'd really just like you to show a little integrity, especially considering your unjustified belief in your moral compass. Even Lord Ahmed apologised for his racist rant.

Mondrian Mon 01-Apr-13 18:36:04

4-Israel regime using Iran etc to justify its actions.
Did you not see Netinyaho drawing that famous line for Iran at UN instead of addressing the ongoing land/sea/air blockade of Gaza. Using the power of fear for political gains and power has long been at play in the world of politics, Israeli regime has been at it for decades and more recently it was adopted by the republican neo-conservatives. Your pretty much doing the same here by refusing to discuss the main humanitarian issues and instead accusing every one and everything of anti-semitism and racist and pointing fingers at Arabs and their cruelty.

Kungfutea Mon 01-Apr-13 19:36:23

No, just you I'm afraid.

Kungfutea Tue 02-Apr-13 02:19:36

Mondrian

I think you may have a memory problem. Let me help you.

First you said:

To prove my point out of the previous 94 postings on this thread you have managed to engage very few now Jewish posters (3-4) who have stayed the course, and even then they are posting out of frustration (like me) and not interest ... Doesn't that tell you anything?

When I asked you how you knew who was Jewish and who was not, you said

Simple, they said they were Jewish ..

Which is of course not true since only one poster (infamous) said she is Jewish. And of course very strange to assume that people who do not state their religion are therefore not Jewish since I don't think posters are obliged to state their religion before they post. Revelation: there may be Jewish people who don't agree with me.

And then you said

Since I joined the thread 2 other posters have said they are Jewish ... both initially supporting your view although the first one seems to have veered off to a more liberal view which is different to yours. I am being racist to suggest 2 (or one) other Jewish person has supported you ...

Which again is not true. ONE poster said she was jewish and she only said she found my views balanced and fair, not that she necessarily agreed with me. But that's also not what you said. As above (I do have to spell things out with you as you seem to forget very quickly) you said you have managed to engage very few now Jewish posters (3-4) who have stayed the course,

Again, how do you know who is non Jewish? Is there a mumsnet rule that Jewish people are obliged to state their religion?

I think you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel to have to go to the definition of racism to try to show that you're not racist. But I'm afraid that it actually proves that you are.

I quote from your definition
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race

You clearly believe that non-Jewish people cannot be supportive of Israel and that Jewish people cannot be critical of Israel ie believe that memebers of a race possess certain political characteristics. Otherwise on what basis did you determine who was Jewish? You still haven't told the truth on that one.

To be fair to you, I don't think you were trying to be racist, I think you were just trying to be nasty to me and in doing so, you happened to reveal your private prejudices...because of course someone with such faith in her moral compass couldn't possibly be racist hmm

Kungfutea Tue 02-Apr-13 02:31:54

Mondrian

Still no evidence on zionist Israeli control of youtube? I'm waiting with baited breath!

Your very bizarre claim (perhaps, even theoretically, you could explain how Israel takes down youtube videos from across the whole internet) is totally bonkers but provides insight into your paranoid thinking about Israel.

This reminds me of Baroness Tonge claiming that Israeli soldiers were harvesting body parts after the earthquake in Haiti. Those big bad mean Israeli soldiers, they just can't help themselves.
Brutal Israeli soldiers

And I'm sorry, I know schadenfreude is a bad thing but I can't help myself and you've just been too rude.
You said for the record I have not actually used the word "Zionist" on any of my postings.
I'm afraid that, for the record, you actually have, three times in your post on Tue 26-Mar-13 06:21:18 . But it's OK, I know historical inaccuracy doesn't bother you much.

Kungfutea Tue 02-Apr-13 02:48:29

I've been asked why I posted on here.

Well, , i was interested to hear the responses. Britain is often perceived in Israel as being very unfairly anti-Israel. I often find myself defending Britain with Israeli friends and assuring them it is not so.

Looking at Baroness Tonge, Lord Ahmed and Ken Livingstone, I do wonder what is going on in Britain. Livingston anti israel

Unfortunately, based on this thread, the wonderful Ron Prosor (ex-Israeli ambassador to the UK) seems to be right when he described the UK as a hotbed of radical anti-Israeli activity. Britain hotbed of anti-Israel sentiment

Just very glad that Britain's PM is supportive of Israel (as have past PMs) - and since you're a democracy, presumably reflective of the majority or surely otherwise there'd have been a regime change?

Kungfutea Tue 02-Apr-13 02:58:06

I was just looking for some info on this youtube conspiracy plot.

I think you have the wrong conspiracy Mondrian.

Israel is actually financing porn sites on the internet to corrupt Muslim youth! Those evil and cunning Israelis! My goodness, I didn't realize how nefarious we are, corrupting the British judiciary to send Lord Ahmed to jail for texting on the phone before a fatal crash, stealing body parts in Haiti, removing videos from youtube and financing internet sites to corrupt Muslims.

Israel financing porn site

Mondrian Tue 02-Apr-13 06:58:37

Now you are just being pathetic, BTW youmissed Galloway in that set of clowns.

Mondrian Tue 02-Apr-13 07:21:23

You have to understand that the British public is far too educated to buy into the crap neo-consevatives, tea party and ultra right wingers dish out with their rethoric such as "you're either with us or against us"! You are just using the same language, we either have to get on board, support Israeli regime and their barbaric treatment of palestinians or be labelled as anti-semitic. Sorry if we just dont fit in with your rather narrow-minded view of the world.

Bessie123 Tue 02-Apr-13 07:37:06

mondrian that is just not true. I really think you should read what kungfutea has actually said. I'm sorry, but it is you who comes across as unwilling to consider a rational argument because of her own agenda. kungfutea seems very fair and balanced, albeit frustrated.

Mondrian Tue 02-Apr-13 09:42:29

Bessie, nice if you to join the thread even if it is as a cheerleader. I know it will be really challenging but please do try and add some content to your posts, atleast kungfu tries!

Bessie123 Tue 02-Apr-13 10:56:30

I consider the content of my message to be sufficient, thanks. I will repeat my message,using small words and short sentences, for your benefit.

kungfutea has explained her views to you a number of times. They are balanced, fair and reasonable. You are not thinking about them. You are probably not even reading them properly. You are not making a rational argument. Why don't you try again.

Mondrian Tue 02-Apr-13 11:11:44

I thought there was a minimum mental age for posting in this site!

Bessie123 Tue 02-Apr-13 12:10:01

Better pop off back to your basket weaving class, then

Kungfutea Tue 02-Apr-13 12:13:45

Do you know how rude and nasty you've just been? I think your moral compass is a bit wonky.

Your claims of Israeli control of YouTube are at the same level as baroness tonge claiming Israeli soldiers harvest body parts in Haiti. No evidence of either.

You still haven't explained why you made racist assumptions so I suggest you get your house in order before you further insult posters just because you don't like what they say.

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