Police fit up Mitchell?

(122 Posts)
CogitOCrapNotMoreSprouts Wed 19-Dec-12 08:33:31

Seems like someone at the Met lost sight of the truth in their anxiety to smear the former chief whip. Amongst other things, a little matter of 'several members of the public were present' shown to be a lie. Article. Appalling.

tiggytape Wed 19-Dec-12 13:56:33

It seems to me the nasty party is back
How is this anything to do with party politics?
It is about CCTV now released that shows the incident couldn't have happened as police describe it and it is about an officer who may have posed as a member of the public to back up his colleagues version of events.

Whatever the full story is here, if it emerges a police lie or seveal police lies colluded to trash a man's reputation, it doesn't matter what political party he belongs to or what job he does. That is plain wrong.

If you go down the road of thinking it is O.K to invent stories against people or groups of people you dislike, that is a very dangerous path to tread no matter how anti Tory you may be. Not to mention the huge harm it causes to the police and the public perception in general.

Xenia Wed 19-Dec-12 14:18:23

Bad police and the earlier investigation cannot have been much good if they did not look at the CCTV. The day there was disptue about what Mitchell said everyone was saying look at the CCTV. The CCTV shows these non existent members of the public who witnessed the whole thing were not there at all. So class war? The police right up to their leader in London Hogan whatever he is called are working class to the core and Mitchell is not exactly that.

The bigger issue is have the police ever done this before? And sadly there have been other cases.

CinnabarRed Wed 19-Dec-12 14:23:11

Why did it take this long for the CCTV footage to emerge? And how did it come to see the light of day?

TunaPastaBake Wed 19-Dec-12 14:23:23

The Diplomatic Protection Group - DPG - Doorways Pavements and Gutters as they are know within the police ,are not exactly the brightest bunch wink

Bloody idiots - puts all police in a bad light

prh47bridge Wed 19-Dec-12 14:28:32

gingercat12 - Mitchell's deputy appears not to have liked him but, in passing on the email to the PM, he was only doing his job.

Shall we start discussing which people in the Labour party or the LibDems have it in for each other? Does that make them nasty parties too?

It's funny how quiet the opposition, the Police Federation and the press who were after him have gone......

Xenia Wed 19-Dec-12 14:42:45

I think the police are stll saying they stand by the other officers' statements.

prh47bridge Wed 19-Dec-12 15:16:30

Which is odd given the officers' statements say there was a small crowd outside the gates when there clearly was not. However, that doesn't really tell us anything about what Mitchell did or did not say.

Personally I think the police should complete their notebooks within minutes and without conferring. The current rules allowing them to complete their notebooks up to 12 hours after an incident and allowing them to confer are an invitation to abuse in my view.

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Wed 19-Dec-12 15:25:38

no one is going to know for sure what it is those other officers statements because a statement is a restricted document - not for public consumption, so all speculation about what is or isnt in those other statements is exactly that - speculation.

the idiot who lied was an off duty officer who claimed to be there as a bystander from what i can tell - he obviously saw it as an opportunity to stick the boot in for what this government has done to the service - (i am currently off work with depression due to the stress i have been personally placed under due to lack of staffing, unrealistic work loads and colleagues suffering serious injuries due to having no back up available, being sent to things like pub fights alone etc)
This does not excuse that idiot officers behaviour.

the truth will out i have no doubt but it will be when the full investigation has finished. The met will be keen to distance themselves from any "bad apple" and i would be surprised if he keeps his job. Its very damaging to the service and its a hard enough job without such foolishness.

chipstick10 Wed 19-Dec-12 15:28:25

The sun newspaper is still at it this morning, claiming "shamed Tory mp Mitchell has launched a fresh attack on police".

Xenia Wed 19-Dec-12 15:28:30

But he must have been in cahoots with those other two who were there and lied about the crowd. He must have got together with them and said I will be the non existent member of the public and all 3 of them must have been stupid enough to think the CCTV would not be looked at.

Why do some people get depressed due to stress from lack of staffing and other people have masses of stresses on them and keep coping? It is a big issue of our day. Is it diet perhaps and exercise which makes some people better able than others at coping with their job?

Xenia Wed 19-Dec-12 15:29:45

Also poor you.... I hope you are better soon. What is the payment when off sick if you're in the police?

If the state paid no sick pay for the first 3 days off sick and then you just claim statutory sick pay after that like everyone else in the country we might not have such a fiscal deficit.

prh47bridge Wed 19-Dec-12 15:38:56

Vicar - The police log of the incident was printed in the Daily Telegraph. The accuracy of the Telegraph's version of the police log has not been disputed. It states that there were several members of the public present and that they looked visibly shocked by Mitchell's comments. This is clearly contrary to the CCTV evidence.

It may be that the Telegraph's version of the police log is incorrect but currently it seems to be accepted as accurate.

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Wed 19-Dec-12 15:43:09

i dont necessarily think that that is the case xenia, that they must have done those things.

like i said. the truth will out.

i have never been depressed before, and i have been subject to other stressful situations through out my life, however this time i have had both work related stress and personal problems, plus physical ill health to contend with. I intend to be back putting my life on the line in no time at all thanks to the treatment from the gp which i am paying for. smile

Nancy66 Wed 19-Dec-12 15:56:08

it's pretty obvious that the police officer at the gate also lied - there is no way that in the 4 seconds that Mitchell is at the gate that he 'several times' refused to use the side gate.

There is also no way that the police officer, in that time frame, explained the reasons why. It is a 4 second encounter.

Likeliest exhange

copper: you'll have to use side gate

Mitchell: fucking hell.

nochipsthanks Wed 19-Dec-12 16:28:50

Hope you are soon better Vicar. You are one of the MN'ers that when you post i take notice of, and feel i 'know' you a bit. You have always been on hand to offer thoughtful advice to people- based on your experiences and knowledge. I am very sad to hear of the stress you are under. thanks

You are right that one bad apple does not a bad force make. That is true. Earlier i wrote my post with a 'well police lie' generalising slant, which your next post brought me up on. SOME police lie. Lots of people lie. Some of them just happen to be in positions where we hope that they do NOT lie, for all our sakes.

I feel for Andrew Mitchell actually. I have been the victim of lies spread about me, and it was awful- and several years later I still feel pain and impotent fury. He never ever denied he swore... the rest of the stuff though just smelled bad and the hysteria was like a lynching.

piprabbit Wed 19-Dec-12 16:37:49

The really sad bit is that the original situation happened around the time the two female police officers were murdered. I think people were very wary of implying that the police could act in anyway improperly, mostly out of respect for the dead officers. There was an acceptance that the police do a very difficult job and that it would be disrespectful to suggest that the police officers in Downing Street might have blurred the truth in anyway.

And now it seems that some numpty off-duty officer took it upon himself to undermine that respect and trust in order to make some sort of cheap political point.

EldritchCleavage Wed 19-Dec-12 16:58:24

Wishing you better, Vicar.

JoanByers Wed 19-Dec-12 17:05:07

Remember that the police were using this for extensive political capital against the Conservative Party, trying to draw a parallel between the shootings of police in Manchester and Mitchell's alleged disrespect in London, and the head of the police commission called for Mitchell to resign.

Obviously the police stitch people up all the time - it's easy to find people from any walk of life who would say 'well he was a bad egg anyway, he deserves it', about someone accused of something, irrespective of the truth of the matter.

The interesting things is to see this stitch-up played out so publicly, and towards a relatively powerful, well-resourced and respectable figure, rather than some scrote on a council estate.

This is an American tape, and we don't have the same rights they do, but the point is clear: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc. Never trust the police, try to avoid contact with them, they can fuck you over and it's not worth the risk.

Abra1d Wed 19-Dec-12 18:26:10

I have to say our local police are pretty well all lovely. Any time i have met them, they have been very reassuring and helpful. I am in Thames Valley.

conantg Wed 19-Dec-12 19:22:04

Amazing coincidence that the alleged emailer just happened to live in the Deputy Chief Whip's constituency!! - the deputy who was so unhappy about Mitchell's appointment as Chief Whip.

LittleFrieda Wed 19-Dec-12 20:49:07

prh47bridge - Agree re the police completing their notes promptly, without conferring.

The whole point of police notebooks is to record what actually happened not some revisionist group-think constructed 12 hours later.

funnyperson Wed 19-Dec-12 21:13:10

*I hope nobody thinks it is justifiable to lie about someone, trash their reputation and them lose their job just because you don't happen to like them personally or politically-*Tiggytape

Reading this is like a breath of fresh air.

funnyperson Wed 19-Dec-12 21:24:30

How do they know the cctv pictures of the 'public' were recorded at the same time as the incident.
At the time my instinct was that the minister should not have sworn at the policeman. Of course the main gates cant be open unless there are enough guards to rush any invading members of the public ready to seize their chance to enter no 10. Its not rocket science. I suspect a passing 'member of the public' might well be a serving policeman though I am lightly surprised they are not SAS etc.

Anyway the key issue here is what tiggytape said. Which is why this must not be brushed under the carpet

nametakenagain Wed 19-Dec-12 21:52:22

Mitchell swore at police officers, which is not okay however you look at it. He was leaving work so a higher standard of behaviour can be expected of him than if when he's at the car boot sale or whatever he does of a weekend.

I have no connection with the police incidentally, I just think you shouldn't shout or swear at people just getting on with their jobs, whoever they are.

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