hunting is illegal so why do it?

(320 Posts)
VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Mon 17-Dec-12 22:26:22

i ride. (well, ive just started but....)
i abhor hunting. hate hate hate the cruelty of it. i think that the RSPCA did the right thing here in this prosecution. why do people of a certain class believe they are above the law?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/david-camerons-local-hunt-fined-26300-for-illegal-fox-hunting-8422915.html

and we spend money (rightly imo) doing this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-20739585

mad world. why do people feel the need to kill animals in the most inhunane ways possible?

GhostShip Thu 20-Dec-12 18:54:46

I'm not losing any debate since I wasn't in one with you when I made the comment.

TheOriginalLadyFT Thu 20-Dec-12 18:55:22

Hunting per se is not illegal - you are permitted to use hounds to flush a fox to the gun, for example. Using two or more dogs to kill a wild mammal is illegal

I hunt because I love the opportunity to cross country I would never otherwise have the chance to access, to see and feel how much my horse loves to run and jump in a herd-like situation which I think gives him real joy and to enjoy the company of like-minded country people. I had no issue with hounds being used to control the fox population prior to the ban, and would happily hunt again for such purposes should the ban be repealed

I think hunting is one of those issues that some people will always have very strong views on that no amount of discussion will alter. That's fine, but using emotive and abusive names for those who support hunting doesn't contribute to the debate IMO

Ponyofdoom Thu 20-Dec-12 18:56:58

Ha - you losing the argument too Ariel with the cussing?! I am at least being civil. I have already said I am simply stating a fact that the fox is immoral I don't expect it to be anything other- eg the fox that ate our sheep slowly alive as it was lambing, stating with the lamb and then half eating the ewe. If you don't eat meat fine, I am making a general point. I eat meat, shoot and hunt, I just happen to think meat eating is the hardest to justify morally.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Thu 20-Dec-12 18:57:37

Oh sorry. Hunting on the other hand is so polite.

TheOriginalLadyFT Thu 20-Dec-12 18:58:56

Hunting is natural, and frankly nature is anything but polite

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Thu 20-Dec-12 19:00:12

And yes it does make me swear. When I was young, my cat escaped from a pack of hounds out with the hunt by the skin of his teeth and he just made it through the cat flap. Next door's wasn't so lucky. The parents had to tell the children their pet had been ripped to bits by the hunt. No one asked us if their hounds could come piling through the garden. But at least no one swore, eh?

Ponyofdoom Thu 20-Dec-12 19:00:24

Well said TheOriginal. Hunting is brilliant for horses, they absolutely love it above anything else. Hard to explain to those who don't get it but hunting is one of those things that is greater than the sum of its parts- an amazing spectacle, off the scale thrilling to be involved in and with an incredible electricity that makes ones neck hairs stand up- in a good way.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Thu 20-Dec-12 19:01:48

And is it a sport or is it pest control. Because they always say it's pest control because of the poor chickens and then say they hardly ever catch anything.

Why can't you just take your horse out for a ride if you love it that much? That's what no one has ever been able to explain to me.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 20-Dec-12 19:02:05

So those people who enjoy the thrill of riding your horse cross country with a pack of hounds - what's wrong with drag hunting?

Ponyofdoom Thu 20-Dec-12 19:03:17

It is a real shame that the cat got killed, but it was an unfortunate accident, no different to accidentally running one over with a car. There are very few incidents compared the the huge number of hunting days per year.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Thu 20-Dec-12 19:04:46

A domestic pet being ripped to bits in its own garden is no different to it being accidentally hit by a car? The master of the hounds didn't even apologise.

What are you people like?

TheOriginalLadyFT Thu 20-Dec-12 19:05:28

You can take a horse out for a ride, we do it most days

But hunting is not a "ride" - there are often 30-40 horses out on the days we hunt, and to gallop and jump in company of so many other horses is as different from a ride out alone or with one other horse as can be. Hunting refreshes competition horses who have become stale, teaches young horses to cross varied country and jump at speed and can give you a tyoe of bond with your horse that is difficult to achieve in everyday riding

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Thu 20-Dec-12 19:05:59

So can you not just take your horse for a hack if it's thrilling to ride? Is everyone who owns a horse an automatic supporter of the hunt?

Ponyofdoom Thu 20-Dec-12 19:07:01

Lots of fox hunters also drag hunt, but it doesn't perform the pest control function, which is why farmers like fox hunts on their land. Hence there are very few drag hunts nationally. It is also a totally different sport, so its like saying why not play football instead of tennis? Drag hunting in an equestrian sport not a hound sport, it is not suitable for many riders and horses. It tends to be more dangerous for the horses too.

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Thu 20-Dec-12 19:08:03

But you just said they don't actually catch and kill many foxes.

TheOriginalLadyFT Thu 20-Dec-12 19:09:09

I like drag hunting, but they go like the clappers and it is not suited to all horses (and there are many less packs than standard ones). We often use hunting to teach young horses to cross varied terrain, jump boldly and learn to behave in company - the charge of the light brigade type hunting you get out with some drag packs is not suitable for achieving those aims

Our hunt abides by the law, lays trails and mimics pre-ban hunting in the sense of stopping frequently to "draw coverts" (now hounds working to find the artificial scent) and allowing the field to watch hounds work - one of the great joys of hunting

Ponyofdoom Thu 20-Dec-12 19:09:32

Ariel you obviously just don't get it at all which is fair enough I guess... a hack is not remotely like going hunting. As an experienced rider, I find hacking dull and just do it to get the horse fit, whereas hunting is thrilling. My horses think the same!

CheerfulYank Thu 20-Dec-12 19:10:29

I don't know much about fox hunting because I'm American, but being chased and ripped apart by dogs sounds terrible.

I'm not against "shooting" though (we just call it all hunting here) and get a lot of my meat that way. It's much less cruel than any factory farm.

Alameda Thu 20-Dec-12 19:11:12

I wish hacking was like hunting!

Ponyofdoom Thu 20-Dec-12 19:12:18

fox hunting tends to catch the sick, injured foxes obviously which is what you want as these are the ones that tend to cause more problems killing livestock as they cant catch rabbits etc

ArielTheBahHumbugMermaid Thu 20-Dec-12 19:13:08

No I don't get it obviously. The same as perhaps you might not get the thrill of multihull racing as opposed to monohull. But at least there's no bloodlust involved in sailing.

As I already said, I have lived in hunting and farming country my whole life and I still don't get it. And I'm glad I don't.

Ponyofdoom Thu 20-Dec-12 19:16:18

Cheerful Yank I would say a clean rifle shot to the head is less stressful to a fox than hunting, but not a poor shot from an unsuitable calibre rifle or being peppered by a 12 bore and running off with its guts hanging out. In the USA you have open spaces and few people per square mile so I imagine its relatively easy to shoot and to do so safely. In the UK there is little open space and lots of people on footpaths, so shooting quarry is less satisfactory in most areas

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Thu 20-Dec-12 19:19:32

So it seems to me that the thrilling bit, the bit that makes your hair stand on end, is knowing that you are remorselessly chasing down a living animal which will hopefully be torn to pieces by hounds.

This is the only difference between traditional and drag hunting.

Whoever said psychopaths earlier was correct.

Ponyofdoom Thu 20-Dec-12 19:19:38

Exactly Ariel. I am glad we can agree to disagree. Nothing like a good debate smile

Dromedary Thu 20-Dec-12 19:20:47

DialsMavis - they don't accidentally catch and kill foxes. I talked this over with a gamekeeper once. He told me that the hunt was constantly coming onto the land he was in charge of looking after (without permission). They would search out foxes in advance and make sure that the hunt went in that direction, and then claim that the fox had been caught accidentally.

The rich are very very used to getting what they want - the sense of entitlement is taught to them from childhood. They're outraged when something doesn't go their way, and immediately get together to use their power and connections to change things back again. Meanwhile they cheat the system.

I saw a great election poster a while back - "vote for me - I'm a nurse and I love hunting" - the hunting ban was apparently the most important national issue in that part of the country.

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