Flag saga Northern Ireland

(200 Posts)
SucksFakeSanta Mon 10-Dec-12 22:35:32

I am ashamed to be from NI.

Thank goodness there has been no loss of life, but some people have had terrifying experiences.

My DC are now scared of 'the flag people' after the route to my DTSs birthday dinner was blocked by a mob earlier this evening.

Seriously fed up with it all. Cannot imagine what it must be like to be working in retail or tourism at the minute.

Rachel130690 Tue 11-Dec-12 11:22:13

I'm from Northern Ireland, thankfully not Belfast. But last night there was a riot and 'protest' in my town. Basically it was the scum of the place out to cause trouble as its their 'right'. The whole thing is a joke. What good comes from wrecking everything and throwing things at people.

Politicians knew then when the flag came down this was going to happen. Of course certain people will disagree with it coming down but I think it's crazy what these idiots are doing to their towns. Peaceful protest is one thing I agree everyone should stand up for their rights but is this really the right way to go about it, causing mayham and destruction all over the place.

I wish people would go about it the right way but I doubt that will ever happen as a lot of people's minds have been warped but older generations.

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 11:29:36

'Politicians knew then when the flag came down this was going to happen.'

Then why did they vote for the flag to come down?

pickledsiblings Tue 11-Dec-12 11:34:23

Why are they even voting on this?!

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 11:36:45

Exactly. And now a poster says
'Negotiations to get the amount of days its flown increased.'

Couldn't they have foreseen all this, don't they know what the population think, don't they listen to people?

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 11:38:15

Aren't there more important things for them to vote on in their positions of power?

poozlepants Tue 11-Dec-12 11:42:41

The Uk is heading for a triple dip recession. Ireland is basically economically fucked and there are massive cuts to be implemented by local and national government and these idiots are holding votes over a flag which was always going to cause trouble. They aren't doing the people of Belfast or Northern Ireland any favours at all. I really despair for Northern Ireland you think things have moved on and then you see this sort of crap. Unfortunately until the politics in Northern Ireland can move away from being based on issues of national identity and more on the actual governance of a country you are going to see this sort of thing perpetually. That's why I won't move back.

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 11:45:23

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Why don't they fix things that need fixing like the economy and energy costs etc.? Why vote on something like this?

Rachel130690 Tue 11-Dec-12 11:47:09

In my opinion they done it in an attempt to make a united Ireland. As they are stripping Belfast of its British identity. They have also said they are going to rename the royal Victoria hospital as they don't want the 'royal' in its name or any link to Britain or the royal family. They are also opening a new park named after one of the hungar strikers.

I think they need to focus on trying to make the place better not making sure the divide is there all the time, by doing all things mentioned above they are just making the divide bigger. Which is a shame.

Everyone in Northern Ireland knew that if the flag was to be taken down it would cause this as certain people will never back down. It just makes those people want a bigger divide, which means this country as a whole will never wise up and begin to work together.

poozlepants Tue 11-Dec-12 11:47:54

The problem comes when your politicians basically aren't the brightest and the most able but the most ideologically dogmatic. Doesn't make for the most sane decisions.

Rachel130690 Tue 11-Dec-12 11:49:26

I don't no why they voted on this. It's a shame they voted at this time of the year as they are ruining everything for people and shops. Every year my Oh and I go to Belfast for the continental market and Christmas shopping but I refuse to go and get caught up in this mess.

MissCellania Tue 11-Dec-12 11:50:33

Taking down a flag or removing the royal names isn't going to make a united Ireland. hmm Nothing is, if only because NI is a money pit that the Republic could never afford to take on.
Flying the flag is merely an exercise in nosethumbing by those who already have what they wanted.

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 11:51:08

'I think they need to focus on trying to make the place better not making sure the divide is there all the time'

'Everyone in Northern Ireland knew that if the flag was to be taken down it would cause this as certain people will never back down'

Exactly.

If you can't do good, then do nothing. Don't poke a hornet's nest when there is no need.

Bring people together, don't create a divide.

TheCraicDealer Tue 11-Dec-12 11:51:50

I think what gets me is half the people out there rioting don't get their backsides down to the polling stations

This. The level of political apathy in working class protestant areas is astounding. I don't like the idea of the flag coming down, it feels like another concession, another step along the road to a United Ireland. But what I did, some months ago, was vote so that my voice was heard. Now the democratically elected council have voted to remove the flag and I have to support that.

The peace process has disenfranchised a lot of people on both sides, men especially. Once they were respected as "defenders" of their communities who had a lot of respect and power. Now they're taxiing or out of work, no-one gives a shit any more. These protests give them a taste of the "old days". This is also true for the big men that killed Black last month. They disgust me and anyone who has a bit of wit.

My boyfriend is a serviceman stationed here and we are both very scared.

drmummmsy Tue 11-Dec-12 11:55:09

i my opinion, the police could be a bit more heavy handed and brutal - after all if you weren't out rioting in the first place you wouldn't get hurt!

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 11:57:23

'The level of political apathy in working class protestant areas is astounding.'

Political apathy is caused by people losing faith. Send teh politicians in amongst teh people, speak to them in village halls, persuade them that they are working for teh people and changing things for the better. How is spending time voting to not fly flags going to convince people not to be apathetic.

Apathy is a failure of the political class to connect with the people, it is not the fault of the people. All people want a better life; they become apathetic when they no longer believe it is possible.

TheCraicDealer Tue 11-Dec-12 12:03:08

You're right- that's exactly what Sinn Fein did twenty years ago.

SantaIAmSoFuckingRock Tue 11-Dec-12 12:05:46

yeah Drmummsy because that's what would be solve this, more resentment between the people rioting and the police! haven't we had enough police deaths? do we really need to wake up tomorrow and hear that another policman's/woman's had his/her house petrol bombed or his/her car attacked on his/her way home from work?

WayneDeer Tue 11-Dec-12 12:14:04

Basil McCrea is the only decent ulster unionist..he has wise things to say and the unionist politicians should heed him if they don't want to lose more votes to the Alliance Party.

McCrea has pointed out Lisburn, a unionist council, have had the Union flag flown on restricted days per year with no problem for years. A flag flying on designated days only, as it does almost everywhere else in the United Kingdom, would mark the City Hall and Northern Ireland as more British rather than the weird flag obsessed anomaly that it currently is. Nothing need be proved.

This obsession with flags only proves and demonstrates the paranoia of the loyalist communities. The presence of a flag flying over the city hall will not stop Northern Ireland becoming a UI when it is the wish of a majority of the electorate.

The existence of NI as British was finally agreed by RofI in the Good Friday Agreement. A flag or lack thereof will not indicate a change in that policy for goodness sake.

The unionist politicians must reach out to more of the community and deal with real issues. The way they have behaved over this matter is disgusting to most of the population.

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 12:19:50

'A flag flying on designated days only, as it does almost everywhere else in the United Kingdom'

But everybody knows that Northern Ireland is not just like everywhere else in the United Kingdom.

'The presence of a flag flying over the city hall will not stop Northern Ireland becoming a UI when it is the wish of a majority of the electorate.'

So why vote on changing it when they knew it would cause such trouble?

Who proposed the vote?

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep Tue 11-Dec-12 12:20:13

weird flag obsessed anomaly grin

How about if they kept the flag down, and painted the pillars of the City Hall cupola red, white and blue instead? Would that work?

Of all the stupid, petty things that both sides in NI have got their knickers in a twist about in the past, this has to be one of the stupidest. Surely?

WayneDeer Tue 11-Dec-12 12:25:34

The proposal to vote on the removal of the flag was made by an SDLP counsellor.
This vote over the permanent flying of the Union Flag at the City Hall has been going on and on for years.
The council have had an equality commission report written on it and a consultation paper and meetings held with the public, all as a matter of public record.

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 12:26:35

'Of all the stupid, petty things that both sides in NI have got their knickers in a twist about in the past, this has to be one of the stupidest. Surely?'

Of course not. Flags are about symbolism and identity. It is illegal to burn teh US flag in the States because of what it symbolises. When Palistanis protest about the US, they ioften burn US flags in the street. If the Irsh flag is burnt, it enrages many Irish citizens.

Flags are not meaningless, they are symbolic and they are symbols of pride and identity.

The people who voted on not flying the flag knew that and they thought it was something important enough for them to vote on. They understood the symbolism, they knew the likely effect, and someone proposed the vote.

apachepony Tue 11-Dec-12 12:27:38

Removing the flag is not going to make a united ireland. Antagonising the catholic population might do so, particularly as Catholics move closer to a majority. A sizeable no of Catholics want to stay in the uk, and believe me, happy Catholics in a mutually respectful Northern Ireland is what scares hard core republicans the most, as it makes a united Ireland more unlikely. So if you want to make a united Ireland more likely, carry on rioting, insisting on flying a flag every day and make it clear there's no compromise to be made. Alternatively you could try the route of compromise and voting alliance. Dissident republicans will be loving this instability, the last thing they want is for ni to appear to be a normal country

claig Tue 11-Dec-12 12:28:22

'This vote over the permanent flying of the Union Flag at the City Hall has been going on and on for years.'

So they spend time voting on this year in, year out do they?

bureni Tue 11-Dec-12 12:32:26

Of course he shinners knew the outcome, since the union flag was removed from the city hall tens of thousands have been erected all over the country as the union flag is after all the only flag it is legal to fly since the Northern Ireland flag was banned from being flown in the 1970s.

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