Israel/Palestine

(59 Posts)
CheerfulYank Wed 21-Nov-12 19:20:39

Um...not to be a stupid American who knows nothing about global concerns, but... blush I have pregnancy brain, does anyone want to give me a basic outline of what's happening?

bitofcheese Thu 29-Nov-12 19:47:38

countries

donnie Thu 29-Nov-12 21:00:12

breadandbutterfly what is your view of the massacre at Deir Yassin? or did that not really happen either?

what do you think about the fact that Menachim Begin, one of the Israeli PMs, was also an active member of Irgun and Stern gang which murdered around 90 people when it detonated bombs in the King David Hotel. would you call him a 'terrorist' - as a bomber and murderer - or would you call him a 'freedom fighter' ? and then I would like you to ask yourself the same question of Hamas.

What do you think of the Israeli commitment to annexing more and more Palestinian land by way of illegal settlements whcih Netanyahu explained away to Hillary Clinton as 'necessary for natural expansion'. What would you think if a load of Palestinian refugees were suddenly given their right to return and reclaimed their homes and villages from occupying Israelis? would you want that? or would you feel aggrieved for those Israelis?

Oh and btw - for every mad, rabid Al Q'aeda anti semitic rant you can find on youtube, I can find an equally mad, rabid UltraZionistic antiArab rant as well. So don't go down the road of sourcing crackpot dodgy 'news' sources. You will only get them right back at you, many times over.

The Israeli treatment of Palestine and Palestinians is tantamount to ethnic cleansing. I am just listening to Abbas now, live at the UN and it makes me cry, it really does. They are a cowed, impoverished and deprived people whose land, such as it is, is being taken brick by brick, field by field. The blockade - around 4 years old now? - is utterly indefensible but yet remains in force. And when ships of Aid are sent from outside sources they are stormed by Mossad forces and the inhabitants are killed.

Anyway I am not going to say anything more just now. Except for one more thing : you can be quite sure, Breadandbutterfly, that although Israel is indeed mighty and well armed, they are also largely despised, and - sadly -their actions provide ample fuel and justification for groups and organisations which really ARE antisemitic. I hope that makes you happy.

Bessie123 Thu 29-Nov-12 23:30:11

breadandbutterfly sorry to leave you on your own to try to reiterate points, I'm afraid I don't have the patience to keep explaining things to people who will always refuse to acknowledge the Arab world's disgusting behaviour to Israel. I feel like it's a waste of time - these people don't want to hear a rational argument, they want a victim story about poor Palestinians. Never mind what Israel has had to go through and continues to.

Btw, to anyone who is interested, I have never, ever heard a 'Zionist' diatribe in my life, although I have heard thousands of anti-Israel ones. I think, as with everything else connected to this subject there is a complete lack of balance. I'm not saying it's impossible that there are anti-Arab or anti Hamas speeches by Jews (what's with all this 'Zionist' shit anyway) but bet there are huge numbers more of anti-Israel ones.

bitofcheese Fri 30-Nov-12 09:05:27

when i lived in west london i used to regularly go to shops in queensway where there are mostly arab run newsagents. incredible but the shops used to have wall to ceiling anti semetic literature on display as if it was as natural as the radio times and womens own. i should have reported it but i didn't, still annoyed with myself that i didn't. when lived in israel never saw anything like this in the newsagents over there, never.

Saski Fri 30-Nov-12 16:47:31

OK well, I frequent North End Road and I never see these anti-Jewish publications. Much like you never saw anti-Arab ones in Israel.
If your previous "just curious" post is implying that the Arab nations don't look after the Palestinians; I have no idea. You might be correct. But, Arab individuals the world over fundraise tirelessly on behalf of Palestinians. We couldn't possibly attend even half of Palestinian fundraisers we're invited to (by Arab organizations).

bitofcheese Fri 30-Nov-12 17:54:39

my 'just curious' post was a genuine curious post. it is a real question with no hidden meaning. it is a poor place, palestine but i have often wondered why there isn't loads of money being pumped in the way israel has always had money pumped in. fwiw i am not pro israel/anti palestine, i sit on the fence and am neurtral, there is bad shit that happens by both. it was a genuine question

bitofcheese Fri 30-Nov-12 17:57:04

btw, i know people are always doing fundraisers for palestine, i wasn't making reference to that, i refer to the many extremely rich arabl surrounding countries ie saudi arabia, qatar to name but a few. they have so much cash they could make such a difference...

amicissimma Fri 30-Nov-12 18:54:22

Was Palestine ever a country?

GrimmaTheNome Fri 30-Nov-12 19:40:13

It was part of the Ottoman Empire up till WWI. Then it was administered by the British Mandate, supposedly "until such time as they are able to stand alone". However there was also a promise to set up a Jewish homeland in the same space "Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country"

It didn't quite work out that way, unfortunately. sad

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