5 yr old girl "snatched" in Wales

(535 Posts)
mumblechum1 Tue 02-Oct-12 04:38:29

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19795761

Let's all keep our eyes peeled sad

MarthasHarbour Tue 09-Oct-12 13:21:51

'One, he has been charged with perverting the course of justice. So, he is not / has not been helping the investigation at all. Quite the reverse. He has been trying to lead the police in false directions. Does not sound like he regrets what he is accused of doing.'

greythorne that is quite a determined opinion. you dont know any of that as fact - i would be careful posting something like that tbh.

My friend is a serving police officer and has said that it is likely that he has told them where she is as the search area is so specific, and it is likely that due to the heavy rainfall she has moved. Again i dont know that as fact but a likelihood.

BoffinMum Tue 09-Oct-12 13:22:35

Boboli, I think the thing that exercises me is what happened to him that made him do something so dreadful? And how do we stop cycles like this?

MarthasHarbour Tue 09-Oct-12 13:25:57

i meant to add this to my last post - i copied and pasted this from the BBC website:

He has also been charged with child abduction and attempting to pervert the course of justice.

The latter charge refers to the unlawful disposal and concealment of a body.

ie not 'leading the police in false directions'

DuelingFanjo Tue 09-Oct-12 13:38:26

"He has also been charged with child abduction and attempting to pervert the course of justice.The latter charge refers to the unlawful disposal and concealment of a body."

Just a question but could these charges be made purely based upon the fact that he is not telling them anything so therefore because they believe he killed her they also believe he must know where she is and so they believe he is deliberately with-holding information. In other words, they may not have proof for either of those charges but they come as a natural extention to the charges of suspected murder?

If he is the man who did this, which im guessing he is as they must have collected enough evidence to charge him for perverting the course of justice, concealment of the body & murder!

It's the family of April my thoughts go out to. Her poor mum, not having her daughter to tuck in at night or never hug againsad
I'm not at all interested in his feelings and i hope he rots for what he has done to this little 5yo girl. She would have had her whole life ahead of hersad

edam Tue 09-Oct-12 14:03:52

thanks for explaining the perverting the course of justice charge, I'd been puzzled by that one. Given there's no duty on any of us to incriminate ourselves - you don't have to help the prosecution, they have to prove a case against you.

Boboli Tue 09-Oct-12 14:50:33

Boffin - I do agree, but I think perhaps that's the natural human need to want to understand how another human being could behave in this way?

I'm sure there are all sorts of psychological explanations for why someone might commit an act like this but I'm struggling on a human level to find any plausible excuse.

I'm also sceptical about learning about the motive to prevent anything like this happen again - is there a common motive between murderers? I have the simplistic view that there is just evil in the world - it's the only way I can make sense of it.

Without want to sound over dramatic, as mum of 2 v young DDs, some of the items in the news this last week, have really made me wonder for the first time what sort of world they are growing up in and how I can best equip them to deal some of the bad things they might come across.

I agree Boboli- just pure evil, there is no excusing or understanding in child killings.

perceptionreality Tue 09-Oct-12 15:25:26

On Facebook there is a group called 'Discuss whether MB is guilty or innocent' and loads and loads of speculation.

Everything is out of control on there and FB never delete anything it seems.

perceptionreality Tue 09-Oct-12 15:27:55

Boboli - I have found myself suddenly questioning those closest to me and not wanting to leave my children with them any more sad hopefully that feeling will fade because we can't live like this and it wouldn't be fair on the children.

But MB was a close friend of April's dad. How on earth must he be feeling right now?

NanaNina Tue 09-Oct-12 19:06:06

I have just googled "perverting the course of justice" and here is the result: "The course of justice including the police investigation of a possible crime. A false allegation which risks the arrest or wrongful arrest of an innocent person is enough. Pervert also means "alter" and any act that interfers with an investigation or causes it to head in the wrong direction may tend to pervert the course of justice. The Prosecution has to prove that there is a possibility that whatever the suspect has done might lead to a wrongful consequence, such as the arrest of an innocent party."

Martha I note from your post that the BBC website states that the perverting the course of justice relates to the unlawful and concealment of a body. If that is the case then so be it.

I was a member of a Jury when the charge against the defendent was "perverting the course of justice" and the allegation was that he had interfered with a witness in a criminal case. He was found not guilty.

The other time I have heard of this phrase is a woman I was involved with (through my work) whose daughter was driving a car when she purposely drove the car at an enemy and damaged the person. The mother told the police that it was someone else who was driving the car and not her daughter. She was found guilty.

These seem to fit with the google explanation. The trouble is with legal definitions is that they are complex and not always able to be understood by those of us who are not legal professionals.

Northernlurkerisbehindyouboo Tue 09-Oct-12 19:11:47

I wish they could find her. It could go on for years not having her back, always wondering where she was. I don't know how you keep on going with that on your heart.

On Saturday two little boys from down the street were playing out on their bikes. Their dad sat outside watching them whilst reading a paper. I have NEVER seen him do that before. The street is quiet, they were in sight of their home - but still he was doing something out of the ordinary for him and I can guess why. On Sunday dd3 was playing in the front garden of our friend's house. Big hedge, it's not really visible from the road and I could see her from inside the house. I stressed about 20 times that she was to stay there, not leave the garden no matter what etc, etc. I am a very laidback parent and I know how rare an event this was - but it's still freaked me out and changed my behaviour, at least for now.

Portofino Tue 09-Oct-12 19:34:29

My dd plays outside with her friends. We have had a LONG chat about this. It is not about strangers, it is about don.t go anywhere with anyone without checking first. My nextdoor neighbours often take all the kids out on a bike ride of a weekend. The same rules apply.

I think we need be very careful on here about discussing what MB may or may not have done. Due to strength of feeling they are likely to move any future trial somewhere else. Who knows who might get called up for Jury service...? And I would not wish such a thing on anyone...

BigWitchLegsInWailyTights Tue 09-Oct-12 19:37:13

The thing that's worrying, is that say someone they know very well asks them to get in their car. A person they are very familiar with...have a lot of contact with...and the child says no....and the person then says "Ah don't be daft...your Mum told me to pick you up."

Not many children would have the balls to continue to refuse. This is why I am considering a mobile phone for my DD aged 8.

Portofino Tue 09-Oct-12 19:48:33

No - that's why you need to STRESS about always checking. No matter who it is. Dd knows that only dh or I will collect from school unless there is a prior arrangement that she KNOWS about and is written in her class book. I told her that in an emergency, someone would ring the school first. And she must always check - even if it a friend's parent who she knows.

BigWitchLegsInWailyTights Tue 09-Oct-12 20:30:06

That's your DD...mine has arangements that can sometimes change at the last minute and I have noticed that her school will just let the DC out with another parent...say it's a parent who has taken them home before but by arrangement...then they will just allow a child to repeat this....not that this has happened with my DD but in theory it COULD....

I have collected her friends a few times as has my DH....not long ago, DH was asked last minute to pick the same girls up...he did...assuming the school were informed. He thought he'd better mention it to the teacher who said something like "Oh no it''s fine...we know she's been home with you before."

They had not been called by the girls parents. This is a small, rural school.

NanaNina & Boffinmum - I know what you mean, I also feel the same. It is inexplicable and I feel there must be an explanation - I need to understand how & why this has happened.

I am also uncomfortable with the things that are being said as we have no idea about what has happened or why - and until things become public knowledge I don't think we should be voicing those kinds of opinions about anyone in connection with this case.

I just know how sick I feel for April and her parents.

BigWitchLegsInWailyTights Tue 09-Oct-12 20:40:43

I don't want to talk about why he did it...it's obvious and doesn't bear thinking about.

Greythorne Tue 09-Oct-12 20:46:07

I apologize if I got the wring end of the stick re 'perverting the course of justice'.

I have heard it used in the context - admittedly a million miles from this - about a married couple who lied about who was driving when they jumped a red light to avoid one of them getting so many points they would be disqualified. Obviously, the original misdemeanor is incredibly minor but lying to police and trying to get the wrong person convicted is absolutely major....even when it's a driving offense.

I assumed in this case it meant something similar.

Apologies.

MarthasHarbour Tue 09-Oct-12 22:15:31

I apologise too - i feel so strongly about this case that i want it to be resolved quickly. I got caught up in what it could be or couldnt be and ended up picking your post apart blush

I just cant bear to think what Aprils family are going through. I am telling DS when he is old enough to always check with me - even if it is a close family friend offering a lift.

I am hugging him so tightly at the moment it is heartbreaking.

BoffinMum Tue 09-Oct-12 22:29:05

When I was at primary school a colleague of my dad's came to pick me up because there had been a family emergency. I completely refused to get in the car. I said something like, "Nope, I have heard about this sort of thing, and I am not getting in your car until I hear from my parents". The bloke burst out laughing, and had to radio my dad (they were both engineers). I then proceeded to interrogate my dad to make sure it really was him, and then he gave me permission to get in the car. Very reluctantly, I complied, and everything was OK. I was praised when I got home for being so cautious, but then my dad came up with the idea of having a family password so that we could tell if someone was coming with a real family message or not. Perhaps that's worth everyone considering?

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Wed 10-Oct-12 03:32:14

Family passwords are a great idea, changed after they actually have to be used, i use that system..

And well done you for being sensible as such a young child x

Greythorne Wed 10-Oct-12 06:02:15

Do you know what? There really is no easy answer. I read that passwords can work, but not fir younger children who apparently have a tendancy to blurt out, 'But you haven't said the word 'banana' yet!' or ''my mummy says I can only cone with you if you say the word 'banana''.

The truth is, we can equip children in any foolproof way against manipulative, adult criminals who will use every trick in the book, all the way to brute force where necessary.

Luckily, I suppose, the criminal evil-doers are few and far between. Small comfort.

DuelingFanjo Wed 10-Oct-12 09:47:08

I was watching Peppa Pig this morning and Peppa Pig went off with the postman to help deliver the mail. There was no password used.

How do people propose that we protect our children when popular children's tv programmes are making it look like it's ok to hop into mrs rabbit's train all the time? I am being flippant of course but clearly 'stranger danger' is pointless when most abuse happens with people that children already know.

BigWitchLegsInWailyTights Wed 10-Oct-12 09:55:35

I think possibly, it may be good to use martial arts Fanjo if we can't iradicate the possibiity, we can at least help children to defend themselves. Martial arts are good for confidence too....I am looking into it for my two DDs I think.

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