Hillsborough. Police did doctor evidence in a bid to avoid blame.

(523 Posts)
Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Wed 12-Sep-12 01:21:14

A report in the Independent about the cover up. RIP to the people who lost their lives on 15th April 1989.
And condolences to the families who are still suffering.

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/exclusive-hillsborough--police-did-doctor-evidence-in-bid-to-avoid-blame-8126233.html

OrangeKipper Wed 12-Sep-12 15:03:44

Sammy the original report didn't say they all died before 3.15pm.

It said all the injuries were caused before 3.15 pm.

And that medical assistance after that time would not have reversed the injuries. It's this second bit that the new report disagrees with.

I only mention this because a lot of people here and in RL are obviously really distressed by the "blatant lie they were all dead by 3.15 pm", whereas that - of all the awful things that happened - is actually a misunderstanding. But it doesn't change the big picture, and God knows there no shortage of actual lies that were actually told.

Profoundly glad to see today's report and that a fresh inquest may be held.

Do you think Kelvin McKenzie will apologise now too?

Kayano Wed 12-Sep-12 15:06:39

Ah. I missed the 'were you there' comment sorry.

I think the cover up was disgraceful. Children tested for alcohol.

Kayano Wed 12-Sep-12 15:08:24

I think he will. He knows he was wrong and believing all the lies

Narked Wed 12-Sep-12 15:10:07

He's known it was bollocks for years. If he ever actually believed it.

Kayano Wed 12-Sep-12 15:12:50

I know he knows it was bollocks for years. He apologised years ago too.

He was so wrong and I think he will apologise again today. As well he should

Kayano Wed 12-Sep-12 15:14:04

Apparently he just has

It's so horrible sad

Narked Wed 12-Sep-12 15:14:10

Any apology from him is meaningless.

VivClicquot Wed 12-Sep-12 15:17:15

He's apologised for the headline - said he should have headlined his piece 'The Lies' rather than 'The Truth'. What a spineless piece of shit.

Greythorne Wed 12-Sep-12 15:18:41

What was the motivation for the police claiming the dead were all dead by 15.15?

I am very keen to hear McKenzie's statement.

I admire the people of Liverpool so much for boycotting The Sun for all those years. On MN, there are constant refrains of 'sorry, it's a DM link' and 'oh, the DM is so anti-women' but the circulation and page impressions go up. But on Merseyside, they bloody well did it. Stuck by the boycott of a scum newspaper. Scourges get a lot of stick for being over-emotional, but they stick together and are loyal. Kudos.

MysteriousHamster Wed 12-Sep-12 15:20:45

JFT96

41 people might have been saved.

randomfemale I have no words for you. Read David Cameron's full statement. Read the news stories. Read the facts. The Liverpool fans were human beings that day just trying to stay alive and help one another. Why on earth you would choose to believe anything else in the face of all this evidence is honestly beyond me. I am appalled. Don't blindly believe one relative who would have his own reasons for denial.

The police lied. Evidence was covered up. The pathologists didn't do their job properly. The fans were wrongly blamed.

This search for justice has not been about wallowing in grief (I cannot stand this line of thought), it has been about being able to get a proper, full understanding of what happened so that people can begin to grieve properly.

I am so sad, and so angry, reading all about it.

Greythorne Wed 12-Sep-12 15:22:12

Orangekipper
X post
You have answered my question about the 3.15 issue

Sorry kelvin too little too late. I am proud to be a scouser and proud of the families of the 96 who died, they have all behaved with dignity and I hope they will now get the answers they deserve.

Dawndonna Wed 12-Sep-12 15:23:20

JFT96.

The South Yorkshire Police, among others, effectively murdered 41 people.

ilove Wed 12-Sep-12 15:23:43

JFT96. YNWA

SammySquirrel Wed 12-Sep-12 15:24:16

OrangeKipper you're splitting hairs. The fact is that the cut off time of 3.15 was false. The new report says 'the notion of a single,
unvarying and rapid pattern of death in all cases is unsustainable'. The coroner was wrong in his assumption that nothing would have made a difference after this time. The new report says 'Some of those who
died did so after a significant period of unconsciousness during which they might have been able to be resuscitated, or conversely may have succumbed to a new event such as inappropriate positioning.' The families want to know the truth.

Greythorne Wed 12-Sep-12 15:26:34

Scousers get a lot of stick

lovelychops Wed 12-Sep-12 15:26:43

I don't think for one minute Kelvin McKenzie is sincere. It was only a few years ago he said "I'm not sorry then and I'm not sorry now".

The BBC need to stop including him on their programmes and take a stand.

SammySquirrel Wed 12-Sep-12 15:26:47

What was the motivation for the police claiming the dead were all dead by 15.15?

It got them off the hook for stopping the ambulances getting to them. IE lessened their culpability, because it wouldn't have made a difference any how. Except now the truth is out and we know it could have made a difference.

MarthasHarbour Wed 12-Sep-12 15:28:42

randomfemale take this biscuit

I remember this day, i was 16 years old and working in a shop on the Saturday, a customer came in and told us what was happening. When i got home i sat and watched the news all night crying. I lived in Northumberland at the time, no football connections, no ties to any of the families, just empathy. My dad is a retired police officer and can be a bit of an arse and prejudicial a-lot at times. Even he is disgusted by the police cover up.

I remember going into school on the Monday morning, someone had a copy of the Sun and was looking at the big picture on the front of people trapped in the pens. Our Biology teacher made him throw it out, i will never forget his words 'most of those people in that picture are dead'

I am no fan of David Cameron, but he has made me proud today.

JFT96 God Bless the families x

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 15:29:26

Trevor Hicks just said that they will stop dealing with the BBC if thy on't stop dealing with Kelvin McKenzie
I think lowlife was the phrase he used.

CaptainHoratioWragge Wed 12-Sep-12 15:31:21

On R4 this morning one of the family members said:

"can you imagine if 96 people had been killed in a stadium in the olympics this summer, the police deciding to blame the victims"

I can't imagine it, it is unthinkable that they would be allowed to do that, and it is unthinkable that they were allowed to do it at hillsborough,

AND for more than 20 years the police have not had to answer criminal charges for their unbelievable actions that day.

My heartfelt respect goes to the victims families who have sacrificed so much to get this report out.

I hope new inquests, verdicts and criminal charges for the police follow.

OrangeKipper Wed 12-Sep-12 15:34:12

Sammy, agree completely that the cut off time of 3.15 has been shown to be hopeless, and that the new report says that action after 3.15 might have saved them. A future inquest must do the job properly.

But you have specifically been saying that people are distressed by being falsely told their loved ones were dead by 3.15. When that's not what was said. I think this detail will matter to those affected. As you yourself said, every detail of the deaths matters.

SammySquirrel Wed 12-Sep-12 15:34:23

It's also worth remembering that as well as the 96 souls lost, 766 people were injured of which 300 were so serious they were admitted to hospital, some of whom are still there. sad

lovelychops Wed 12-Sep-12 15:34:54

just saw that Pag. Lowlife is far too polite for McKenzie.

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