Hillsborough. Police did doctor evidence in a bid to avoid blame.

(523 Posts)
Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Wed 12-Sep-12 01:21:14

A report in the Independent about the cover up. RIP to the people who lost their lives on 15th April 1989.
And condolences to the families who are still suffering.

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/exclusive-hillsborough--police-did-doctor-evidence-in-bid-to-avoid-blame-8126233.html

Kewcumber Wed 12-Sep-12 13:58:42

I think there were police officers who gave evidence saying that they were way undermanned, had insufficient radios and queried certain orders. I don't think all the police statements of the day were changed by the officers involved. I only say this based on what i have read subsequently.

I have no idea if all the officers were aware their statements had been changed though.

TheSmallPrint Wed 12-Sep-12 14:10:37

I'm no football fan and I'm from the south but I remember this happening and hearing this today is bringing tears to my eyes. I cannot believe what those poor people had to suffer and then be balmed for it.

I'll add my name for JFT96.

Flisspaps Wed 12-Sep-12 14:10:48

randomfemale his accounts are not only shocking, but fictional.

DH's uncle was there (or so I believe) and he is one of the lucky ones who came back home that day. He is one of those people that had disgusting lies told about them by the police and the media.

Fantastic vindication, at last for the survivors and the bereaved families. So admire the unrelenting strength, patience and determination of those campaigning for the truth.

JFT96.

Kayano Wed 12-Sep-12 14:14:13

Can you ever get the full facts? I dot think you would be able to get the correct time of death for everyone.

The police were in the wrong
There has been an apology
Stadium safety has been improved so so much since

I just hope the families can get some peace after the next enquiry. The problem is that yes there was a cover up and lies but some people wrongly have different memories.

I can imagine it was overwhelming for the individual police officers at the scene who might have seen the absolute devastation as threatening, they might have not realised what was happening at first due to the fighting to survive this terrible incident being perceived as just fighting

Iyswim?

I don't think even with all this new evidence you can ever get the full truth

Or get what the families really want which is justice and convictions.... Who would you convict? The individual police or the ones who did the covering up?

I don't think t will ever get laid to rest unfortunately

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 14:20:38

I think that is a huge misunderstanding of what the families ave even fighting for.

The families (as I understand it) simply want an understanding of what happened.
You may never get at the entire facts but, for example, a proper inquest covering the period post 3.15 would help some families get information about the deaths of their loved ones.

I don't believe anyone has mentioned 'convicting' anyone. But as long as people were still able to think that the victims were even partly to blame, finding out what really happened could finally put those lies to rest.

JFT96 YNWA

thebestisyettocome Wed 12-Sep-12 14:28:36

People should be VERY careful about what they post on this thread. The account RandomFemale's fil gave has CLEARLY been proven to be lies. David Cameron described it as a false narrative of hooliganism.
I've listened to the coverage on Radio Merseyside and it's heartbreaking. One man knew and father and son who travelled to H'boro on the coach together but only had one ticket. The father sat on the coach listeing to the coverage on the radio and heard the terrible events unfurl. The son was crushed to death. Imamgine the pain of that.

Vagaceratops Wed 12-Sep-12 14:43:16

I hope they have a new inquest and the families can get some comfort from that.

lovelychops Wed 12-Sep-12 14:44:33

Random

I wasn't there, but my DP was. I can assure you his account of what happened are drastically different to those of your FIL.

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Wed 12-Sep-12 14:45:49

JFT96

YNWA

SammySquirrel Wed 12-Sep-12 14:47:33

Kayano you are misunderstanding what the families want. They want the truth. If the truth is 'we don't know the time you child died' them that's what they want. If it's 'your brother died somewhere between 3.30 and 4.30' then that's what they want. What they don't want is what they've been given for 23 years which was lies and dishonesty, being told they were all dead by 3.15 when they know full well that was not the case.

They were all told their loved ones all died of traumatic asyphixia. That was lies. The autopsy results showed that many of them had no signs of this. Those families want to know why they really died. Perhaps they'll never know. But they want the chance to try and fit as many pieces together as they can, something they couldn't begin to do while they were being decieved.

Losingitall Wed 12-Sep-12 14:51:41

Anyone else that had committed perjury would be subject to the criminal justice system.

Wonder if ever they will be brought in front of the courts!

Narked Wed 12-Sep-12 14:51:42

Now for a new inquest.

And Kayano this enquiry has been totally different to the usual ones where people are called to give evidence. This one has focused on documents. It has focused on fact not opinion. It's about the truth of what happened.

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 14:53:01

The inquest stated that 41 victims were still showing signs of life at 3.15 and it is possible that at least some of them could have beensaved.
If one of them were my child i think i might wantto know.
Someone instructed alcohol testing on the victims, including a tenyear old. I want to know who gave that order.
I want to know why Kelvin McKenzie was confident enough to publish the lie that fans urinated on the dead. I want him to explain why.ohyes I do.

lovelychops Wed 12-Sep-12 14:53:06

The families involved with the tragedy have behaved with dignity throughout the whole campaign.

It's ignorance coming from posters like Random who are proof that it's time to clear the names of all who were there on that day 23 years ago.

Today the truth has come out, I really hope justice will follow.

Narked Wed 12-Sep-12 14:55:04

Pagwatch those lies have been traced back by the enquiry to a briefing given by the police to a specific Sheffield news agency.

Kayano Wed 12-Sep-12 14:55:43

That's exactly what I am saying

I don't think they will get the exact truth but I hope they get what they can from the new enquiry because they have all been through some much

To be fair to random she didn't actually post what her FIL said because she didn't know what happened, only stated he had a different story

Who knows what it is? It could be 'I was assaulted by a Liverpool fan' when really what happened could have been a Liverpool fan slapping him out of sheer distress and frustration to pull himself
Together and try and save some lives
Iyswim?

I'm on your side btw

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 14:57:12

Thankyou narked.
I am going to spend an afternoon reading the documents tomorrow if I can.

Kelvin McKenzie is very quiet suddenly.

Kayano Wed 12-Sep-12 14:57:54

I know that narked. I think it's fantastic that they did this and hope the new inquest sheds new light for the families

I just feel so sad for them

noddyholder Wed 12-Sep-12 14:59:42

The more you read the worse it gets. Shocking. Kelvin McaKenzie is indeed very quiet But really what can he say?He is awful at the best of times but this is the lowest

Growlithe Wed 12-Sep-12 15:01:23

There is a possibility that 41 people could have been saved. This is very shocking. We could never have been expected to hear that kind of evidence. Just awful for the families.

VivClicquot Wed 12-Sep-12 15:02:25

Sky have just said that Kelvin Mackenzie is going to issue a statement shortly. Should be interesting to see what the lying toad says.

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 15:02:49

Kayano
Tbh I think Randoms 'were you there hmm ' comment was the more irritating one.

Yes, I said that I think individual police officers on the ground were screwed tbh and many have commented on how great some of them were.

But I don't think anyone is 'after' the police on the ground.
it is the systematic cover up, lying to the press, lying about opening the gate, trying to find evidence of criminal records amongst the victim so they could slur them, refusing to let the ambulances through, re-writing sttements etc etc , by the senior police and - it seems- the ambulance service - that people want exposed.

kdiddy Wed 12-Sep-12 15:03:37

My DH was there with FIL as a Nottingham Forest fan. He was very clear that Liverpool fans were trying to help each other, whilst ambulances sat outside and police did very little. He has always said that it was clear the 3.15 cut off was totally false and people were obviously still alive but in trouble. In the main the police do a marvellous job and they are very different today than 23 years ago, but sadly here they appear to have used their authority to peddle utter fictions which anyone in the stadium could have told you were rubbish.

I am totally disgusted it has taken so long to reach the conclusions the panel have but I hope justice is finally going to be done.

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