Hillsborough. Police did doctor evidence in a bid to avoid blame.

(523 Posts)
Darkesteyeswithflecksofgold Wed 12-Sep-12 01:21:14

A report in the Independent about the cover up. RIP to the people who lost their lives on 15th April 1989.
And condolences to the families who are still suffering.

www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/exclusive-hillsborough--police-did-doctor-evidence-in-bid-to-avoid-blame-8126233.html

randomfemale Wed 12-Sep-12 01:35:07

My FIL was a serving police officer at Hillsborough - now retired. He maintains it was all the fault of the Liverpool fans and that their behaviour was less than honourable. His accounts of the day are quite shocking and I would not post them on here as they are his and I can't verify.

Growlithe Wed 12-Sep-12 09:36:48

My brother was a Liverpool supporter at Hillsborough. He maintains he saw the wounded and dying on the pitch being attended to by only fellow supporters using advertising boards as makeshift stretchers.

His friend was in the stand to the side of the Leppings Lane. He had taken a camera, and when he realised the incident was serious, he started to take photographs. He thought the photos would be significant to any future investigation, so had an extra set developed and took them to the police.

He heard no more about it, and later got in touch with the police who said they had an overwhelming amount of evidence so did not need his photos. He asked for them back, but was told they were lost.

When the Hillsborough families started to dispute the ruling on the 3.15 time of death, suggesting all the dead were dead by this time, he looked again at his own set of photos. They had the stadium clock on them, and it was later than 3.15 when he started taking the photos. He handed the pictures to the Families Support Group and gave evidence at the later enquiry.

I would say that it was less than honourable to lose a piece of significant evidence such as that. I would also call it less than honourable to amend the statements of junior police officers present.

It could quite easily have been me going to Liverpool's Anglican Cathedral today. So it is not just an issue for the families that are.

It could also have been happening in any other Cathedral in England, because any team could have got through to that semi final and that ground was not fit to host it. So it is not just an issue for the people of Liverpool.

It could have happened at any public event in the country. So it is not just an issue for football fans.

And if the evidence to be released today shows that there has been a significant cover up involving the police, the media and the government, it if definitely an issue for us all.

campergirls Wed 12-Sep-12 09:51:46

The line taken by the South Yorkshire police was discredited by Lord Justice Taylor's official report just months after the disaster. It would be very hard indeed to find documentary evidence to verify police accounts that seek to shunt the blame for the disaster onto Liverpool fans.

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 10:00:20

The idea that the fans were to blame and behaved disgracefully was totally repudiated by the report and no trace of the reported bad behaviour was ever found on the CCTV footage, or the tv footage.

Blaming the fans and telling stories about them is bloody disgraceful.
Absolutely shameful.

Kaloobear Wed 12-Sep-12 10:02:43

God, I didn't know that much about the Hillsborough disaster-I just read up about it and am horrified. I can't imagine how terrified those poor people must have been sad

bottleofbeer Wed 12-Sep-12 10:10:04

As dishonourable as pushing dying men, women and children back into those pens? As dishonourable as not allowing more than 40 ambulances onto the pitch because "they were still fighting" in there? As dishonourable as chanving statements and asking the bereaved parents of CHILDREN how much they'd had to drink? I'd go on but these action and lies will have the lid blown off today. JFT96.

Pagwatch Wed 12-Sep-12 10:19:52

The real shocker for me was how quickly the senior police decided to blame the fans to cover their arses.
David Duckenfield gave the disastrous order to open the side gate and within the hour told FA officials that the fans had smashed the gate open.
While the disaster was unfolding he ordered a line of police to prevent the Liverpool fans reaching the other end of the stadium where most were trying to reach help/ambulances. He also stopped a whole line of ambulances entering.out of something like 40 deployed and siting outside only two were allowed to tend the dying.

Just awful.

LineRunner Wed 12-Sep-12 10:22:17

JFT96

Growlithe Wed 12-Sep-12 10:22:45

A doctor there who attended the wounded has just been on BBC News. He, and all other medical staff, were 'chucked out' (his words) of the gym which was being used as a makeshift hospital at 5 o'clock, and it was locked down by the police for a debrief. He says there was a similar debrief session involving the ambulance service.

I find this a beyond shocking account of the day.

LineRunner Wed 12-Sep-12 10:35:31

Andy Burnham is saying on the news, prepare to be even more shocked, at the scale of the lies and the cover-up.

randomfemale Wed 12-Sep-12 10:39:14

I take it all you lot were actually there on the day then? hmm

SwedishEdith Wed 12-Sep-12 10:45:50

Were you random?

Mymumsdaughter Wed 12-Sep-12 10:46:18

JFT96

SammySquirrel Wed 12-Sep-12 10:47:09

My FIL was a serving police officer at Hillsborough - now retired. He maintains it was all the fault of the Liverpool fans and that their behaviour was less than honourable. His accounts of the day are quite shocking and I would not post them on here as they are his and I can't verify.

And that opinion has been proven in law to be false and malicious. The only question now is how far the police went with their false and malicious actions and accounts of the day.

Growlithe Wed 12-Sep-12 10:48:43

My brother was random - and his friend, with his camera. The doctor I just spoke of was as well. He has just stood in front of TV cameras to give his account.

You don't have to believe them of course. You don't have to believe Lord Justice Taylor. You may start to find it hard to not believe today, if the weight of evidence is as huge was seems to be promised.

JFT96

bottleofbeer Wed 12-Sep-12 10:51:12

Thankyou to those outside of Liverpool for taking the time to find out the truth. Sadly thse misconceptions are still widely accepted as the truth. These were normal people, normal families like yours and mine. They went to a football match on a sunny Saturday afternoon and died horrifically, they begged the poilce to help them and the police shook their heads and walked away. There were children in those pens. They began getting over the fence, they were pushed back in. Duckenfield had such a clear view of those pens you could see the time on people's watches. He knew what was happening but rather than give the order to open the gates into the adjoining and almost empty pens he called it a pitch invasion, he however DID give the order for the side gate to be opened allowing 2000 more fans into already overcrowded pens; when he realised the magnitude of that decision and what it caused he outright LIED and said fans stormed the gate. What he should have done was just pure common sense: delay the match until the people were safely in the grounds, instead he gave that fatal order. CCTV of th incident went missing from a locked room.

They eventually break through the pens and begin giving help and rescucitation to the injured and dying. Still most of the police stood around like lemons. One fan who ripped some of the hoarding off to use as a makeshift stretcher was told "you can't just vandalise the place". 40 ambulances with life saving equipment on board were not allowed onto the pitch because - as I said they were told "they're still fighting in there" - it was known now and fully evident this was not a pitch invasion, they were not fighting, they were trying to save their fellow fans lives. it was all about arse covering, blame the fans till the very end even if it means that people are dying right now. Distraught families treated like dirt and not being allowed to touch their dead loved ones as they were now "the property of the coroner" and being aggressively questioned minutes after identifying the body. "What were they drinking?" again, to perpetuate the biggest myths of the 20th century.

Officers have come forward to admit they followed orders to change their statements. And then the biggest kick in the teeth; the headline of that rag, The Sun.

The cut off point of 3:15pm, meaning it was DECIDED, despite plenty of evidence to to the contrary that everyone who died was dead by then. Yet police officers were saying "no, this person died in my arms at 4pm". Their inquests were therefore a load of bollocks. He was dead by 3:15 madam, accept it even though you've been told he was alive long after that time, he doesn't get a proper inquest. Go away, stop bothering us.

So, to those who wonder what justice means, what do they still want after all this time? they want an apology, they want to expose the cover up that believe me most assuredly happened. They want the truth to be known, they want their loved ones to stop being blamed for their own deaths when all they'd done was attend a terribly managed football match. They want some accountablity. Afterall, isn't that the crux of the word 'justice'?

Let's hope that today, 23 years later, they get some peace. They bloody deserve it.

SammySquirrel Wed 12-Sep-12 10:58:12

I also think that people forget that the man in charge on the day, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, has admitted in court that he lied and made false statements about what actually happened.

bottleofbeer Wed 12-Sep-12 11:06:13

I think people involved, especially some of the police officers HAVE to tell themselves these lies. It'd be too hard to live with, to admit to your part in it. Imagine it, you're dying, horribly and painfully and you know it. You see an officer just feet ahead of you, you catch his eye. Thank God! he's there to help, it's his job! and you mouth "help us" to him. He looks you in the eye, shakes his head and walks away. This is just one of the accounts of a survivor. You make it out of those pens injured, but alive. How justifiably angry do you feel? you've had the weight of dead people on your back, they didn't help any of you, in fact; they made it worse.

Then, as if all of that isn't bad enough they blame you! they're 100% culpable but they're blaming you. Imagine it was one of your children. Anybody still a bit vague about the reasons they seek justice?

Narked Wed 12-Sep-12 11:07:09

I hope it all comes out. What happened was a totally preventable tragedy. The cover up that followed was an insult to the dead and their families. The fact that it's taken so long for the truth to come out is an utter disgrace.

A United fan here hoping for JFT96.

stressheaderic Wed 12-Sep-12 11:16:07

Excellent post, bottleofbeer.

I hope the bereaved families get some true answers today. They have been fobbed off for long enough. JFT96.

drummerswife Wed 12-Sep-12 11:22:54

random
my nans friends 2 grandsons were there and they never came home
thinking of the families and those who tragically lost their lives that day

Upsy1981 Wed 12-Sep-12 11:30:48

Some really excellent posts. It shocks me how little people from outside the area know about the accounts of that day and probably think that its these scousers raking up old wounds just for the sake of it. I really hope these families finally feel vindicated today, although I know they will not feel victorious.

boschy Wed 12-Sep-12 11:33:32

My thoughts go out to all those bereaved families, and the injured who are still living with the effects of that day. I do feel sorry too for those emergency services staff involved, especially those who were coerced into the cover up.

What does JFT96 mean please?

Upsy1981 Wed 12-Sep-12 11:34:54

Justice for the 96

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