Tax changes - are you better or worse off ?

(191 Posts)
throckenholt Wed 06-Apr-11 08:41:47

Just listening on the news that only the top 20% will be worse off. I had never realised before that I am that well off to be honest !

I think we will be about £250 worse off if the online predictor things are right - we have 3 kids, 1.3 FTE salary (both work part time) with a middling salary (average about 40-45K between us). I think the money we will lose will be from falling off the top of the child tax credit limit (just).

I don't particularly expect handouts from the govt at my level of income, but I was surprised that our income puts us as high as the top 20% - I would have thought a bit above the middle. There must be a very long tail stretching out to the high earners.

It made me wonder roughly how many others are similarly unaware that they are classed as the wealthiest 20%.

GiddyPickle Wed 06-Apr-11 09:13:49

I agree with you throckenholt - not many people on 45k would feel wealthy if they have several children, pay a large mortgage or high rent (living in cities for example), commute to work by car or train and narrowly miss out on benefits for example considerable help with childcare costs so have to pay most of this themselves.

£45k is a large amount to earn if you're a young couple or living in an area with low housing costs but if you're a family with bills, high petrol costs, childcare and £1000 a month rent then it doesn't feel wealthy at all.

I guess the fact is there has to be a cut off somewhere and anybody who earns just a little bit above that will actually be worse off than someone just below the threshold but who qualifies for more benefits.
In the top 20% there must be an awful lot of people who just scrape above the threashold and then a smaller number of vastly richer people who are taxed and treated the same way.

Quodlibet Wed 06-Apr-11 09:26:52

Tax changes pretty academic for me - most of my income has been wiped out by various cuts.

SanctiMoanyArse Wed 06-Apr-11 09:32:09

Slightly better off this time around (carer / student on PT wage) but the new proposal to cut the disability portion of tax credits siignificantly will leave us without the rent top up and homless so it's short term (am planning on getting back to work next year when ds1 settlerd in his SNU but events seem to conspire against it- third child just entered autism diagnostic process).

I am not convinced by the nature of the changes to child benefit though, or that £45k is a top income. I think we were on about that before dh's redundancy and it was confortable but still very easy to be knocked by a large bill such as a car breakdown or house repair. And of course it's far less in some palces than otehrs- we're in Wales after all, houses in our town not as cheap as much of Wales (about £200k for a 2 bed) but compared to London......

It comes back to housing though I suspect; currently, the root of all evil. In order not to be moved too far from the two special needs units we depend on and the MS school where ds2 has extra SEN input we would had to top the HB up by £200 pcm whilst DH sorted the post redundancy mess; £45k should be enough but not with hosing the way it is.

Niceguy2 Wed 06-Apr-11 09:55:12

Yup totally agree. It really annoys me when people think that if you earn more than £40k then you are living it up.

Don't get me wrong, I know I earn a good wage and we're not on the breadline but I resent being told constantly to suck it up and pay more tax for the "poor & needy".

I've not got a big mortgage by modern standards, we have 1 car, we can't afford a foreign holiday this year. Hardly the lap of luxury.

I don't want handouts, I want a fair rate of tax, I want to see the money I do pay spent efficiently and not on some stupid pet project or bombing another country. I also don't want to throw good money after bad on the welfare system until they bloody improve it. There's a HUGE disincentive to work at the moment. My OH has just started a new job to supplement our household income and the attitude in the office is pretty much "Why should we work full time when tax credits mean we are just as well off working part time".

Whilst you can't blame the individual for making the most of the system, the system is wrong.

Chil1234 Wed 06-Apr-11 10:29:16

I've been worse off after every budget for as long as I can remember. No reason to suppose this time around will be any different.

dreamingofsun Wed 06-Apr-11 10:32:45

lets hope that AV doesn't allow the lib dems to govern outright as they will introduce a local income tax. they claim this reflects ability to pay - but as many of you so rightly point out, if you have a mortgage which is fairly new its likely to be large, and childcare costs and running a car to get to work can all quickly add up.

I think we will also be worse off. Do you have a link to an online calculator/predictor Please?

ruddynorah Wed 06-Apr-11 10:40:16

i'll be £300 a year better off in tax. child tax credit is halved though, we'll get the very minimum i think it's £20. will also still get child benefit.

peppapighastakenovermylife Wed 06-Apr-11 10:42:18

I was shocked as thought we would lose everything. We earn about 45k between us and will still have some a month (although less). Our childcare costs do add up to around £1500 a month though!

PlentyOfPrimroses Wed 06-Apr-11 10:46:53

Just over £700 worse off, mostly through the loss of child tax credits.

calculator here

KaraStarbuckThrace Wed 06-Apr-11 10:47:08

Niceguy2 - I agree with you. £45K is a good income up in the North, but if you live in the SE/London it doesn't get you far - house prices and rents are very very scary!

We're probably going to be slightly worse off this year, DH earns above the threshhold (not much more) and I have a small income from being S/E. But we are largely debt free (apart from mahoosive mortgage) and I never worry about our ability to pay the bills unlike a lot of people I see on here and that makes me very very thankful.

EldonAve Wed 06-Apr-11 10:47:31

We will be worse off assuming DH gets a job

going Wed 06-Apr-11 10:48:00

We will be £732.19 worse off due to increase in tax and NI and loss of child tax credit. Dreading the fugures next year when we lose child benefit. This is all based on DH working full time, I am a SAHM and we have three children.

mumblechum1 Wed 06-Apr-11 10:48:30

Worse off.

ruddynorah Wed 06-Apr-11 10:50:48

that bbc calculator has us as £500 better off when i put dh in aswell as me. and it seems to keep the child tax credit at the £545, though the review paperwork i got said it would be half that.

Katiebeau Wed 06-Apr-11 10:53:00

With the new tax last year and this year and loosing CB we are about £500/month worse off. It is a lot but we are doing OK. I agree with Niceguy2 if the money was been spent where it really needs to be I can agree this is needed. Otherwise it just means we are paying off the debt or to support a benefits system which means it doesn't pay to work.

Chil1234 Wed 06-Apr-11 10:55:07
Praline Wed 06-Apr-11 11:03:34

I am going to be £551 better off according to the calculators, but we are on very low income of £20000 between us, 2 kids.

sieglinde Wed 06-Apr-11 11:04:16

We are worse off. I always thought the Tories and the posher sort of Lib Dems especially hated the middle class and now I'm sure of it. They like those on 150k plus, people like themselves, and they have little snivelly Dickensian reveries about the poor so they can sleep well at night. But people like us are scum, and yes, I am having a Daily Mail moment, so much so that I actually reproduce here a Daily Mail comment, or the parts of it I agree with:

The people hit most by these measures are those on 43-63000 pounds a year. These are the people who create employment or have creative and organisational skills that others lack... wage differentials in this pay range reflect hard work, long hours, extended self-financed training and talent. The idea that this key part of the working population should be penalised to protect many people who are not committed to their work, did not put in the hours over years, who have avoided educational opportunities and have not invested in their own skills is contrary to justice.

Apologies to the author, whose name is Meritocrat, but I thought this was a good summary. That said, of course nobody wants benefits cut to those who are ill or simply unlucky or disabled or who have disabled children, and I hate the way the Mail blames immigrants. But it does infuriate me that my perfectly able-bodied sister in law gets family tax credit so she can retrain in acupuncture because her crafting 'business' folded. I think she should get a job and train part-time, and by now I don't care how Unreasonable I am.

PlentyOfPrimroses Wed 06-Apr-11 11:12:47

This is only part of the cuts though. Have all the benefit cuts taken effect yet? Although we don't feel rich by any means (not much over £46,000 for two adults and two teens living in London) and will definitely feel the pinch, at least we are not reliant on HB for a roof over our heads.

Thanks Chil

BoffinMum Wed 06-Apr-11 11:20:32

£982 worse off. sad

BoffinMum Wed 06-Apr-11 11:21:15

We would actually be 26k better off if I gave up work. hmm

BoffinMum Wed 06-Apr-11 11:21:37

<Daily Mail moment>

Chil1234 Wed 06-Apr-11 11:22:04

"I always thought the Tories and the posher sort of Lib Dems especially hated the middle class and now I'm sure of it."

GB wasn't all that fond of middle-income earners either, if you remember. He threw the odd scrap their way with the Child Tax Credit but he was famous for his stealth taxes otherwise. Like it or not, the average household income in the UK is circa £25k and only 10% of the population have an income in excess of £51k. So, regardless of where you happen to live or what you choose to spend your money on, if you're on more than £25k you're technically better off than most. And, given that we have a system which involves a redistribution of wealth from the better-off to the poorest... some of us pay in more than others.

Having said that, I'm glad that there is a wholesale welfare reform going on and a revision of public services at the same time. When some are being asked to contribute so much, waste and profligacy elsewhere in the system unacceptable.

BoffinMum Wed 06-Apr-11 11:23:28

But you can't be better off if your commuting costs and childcare costs are never offset against anything, and you can't get to work without either of them. It's false mathematics.

GiddyPickle Wed 06-Apr-11 11:24:55

It is scary - if you are above the threshold but only just the outgoings compared to income mean most families can just about break even if they are frugal, have no holidays, only run one cheap car etc. The notion that being on 45k makes you rich is silly.

If you pay 40% tax plus N.I then a £45k salary becomes about £2600 a month take home pay which sounds a huge amount but if out of that you pay:
£700 mortgage or rent + £200 petrol + £750 childcare costs + £120 council tax + £200 - £400 phone, gas and electricity and insurance bills + £400 food and shopping bills + £50 clothes and shoes then you just about break even. No holiday, no after school clubs, no treats!!

If you live somewhere where rents are more like £1000 a month or house prices are sky high or you have a very long commute or you have two children in fulltime childcare then you may actually have a shortfall every month.

Without benefits but with more than one child £45k is about the minimum you would need in order to live in most cities and meet all your bills.

We're £800ish worse off. It won't cripple us, but I bloody hope they're going to spend it where it needs spending and not piss it away <grumpy arse today>

Mirage Wed 06-Apr-11 11:35:39

I'm self employed so the tax calculator won't work for me.I'd imagine we'll be worse off -we usually are.

poorbuthappy Wed 06-Apr-11 11:39:38

£526.39 worse off. Oh the joy.

CoffeeGoneColdAgain Wed 06-Apr-11 11:39:50

Praline You are the same as me, I got 441 better off (dp earns 21k)
But when I did it on the calculator it stays the same as what we get now, so i'm confused!

throckenholt Wed 06-Apr-11 11:48:52

It is interesting. Our joint income is about 40-45K (varies a bit through the year). We have 3 kids but no childcare costs. We run two cars, but have a relatively short commute (about 20 mile round trip). Our mortgage is low.

We are comfortable in that we can cover the occasional unexpected bill (eg car breakdown) without going in to debt. We have 1 or 2 modest uk holidays a year (cheaper cottages out of season in cheaper areas).

But we are frugal - we don't buy take aways, don't belong to any subscription services (phone, tv, gym) etc. Low mileage (about 5000 per car per year), rarely buy clothes or other luxuries, don't go to cinema or attractions. No afterschool clubs. No foreign holidays.

It puzzles me how people can afford to do any of those things we don't do. What I mean is, if my income is top 20%, and my disposable income is likely higher than most in that income bracket (given low mortgage and childcare costs) and I can't afford all those "luxuries" - who is it that keeps all those places going ? Eg family entry to a random visitor attraction - say £35 min etry fee (plus other stuff like food).

HarrietJones Wed 06-Apr-11 12:07:13

People have different priorities, we eat put regularly but pay with tesco vouchers so we come across more 'frivolous'

We come out better off on the calculator but we aren't entitled to TC even though it says we are so it's only slightly better off due to tax /NI

GiddyPickle Wed 06-Apr-11 12:11:09

We wonder that as well therockholt. We know one couple whose parents bought them a house when they got married so it's not hard to see how they can afford things but everyone else seems to manage holiday plans for Easter or at least day trip to Alton Towers or bowling in the schedule. We seriously cannot afford anything like that right now despite being in to the top 20% apparently.

We don't buy clothes except when absolutely necessary and even then get them from supermarkets or second hand sometimes. We cannot afford Sky TV. We have one car. We do not have gym memberships. The kids go to a club but it is am amateur type one so the weekly fee is minimal. We sometimes take them swimming but cannot afford lessons like lots of their classmates have. We don't smoke, drink rarely, have a takeaway about 2 times a month and if the washing machine stops working we would have to borrow money or save up to replace it. We don't have a spare £300 in the budget at all.

I am not pleading poverty here. Our income is just over the top tax paying threshold, our bills are paid, we eat a good diet and we live in a stupidly expensive part of the country and pay high housing costs (because DH's job is in London and it is the only place he could do that job due to where the company is based) but that's about it. We do not have luxuries in the way that many people seem able to afford. I am not complaining as we are better off than many but I wouldn't class our lifestyle as the top 20%

adamschic Wed 06-Apr-11 12:11:56

Will certainly be a winner as I am below average wage, any wingers on 45K want to swap? No, thought not. I work btw, live in a low income, high house price area. On the up side I only have a small mortgage grin.

Chil1234 Wed 06-Apr-11 12:16:39

"It puzzles me how people can afford to do any of those things we don't do. "

They stick it on the CC. I can't do debt - gives me sleepless nights. The last 10 - 12 years, I've seen friends jetting around the world on fancy hols, eating out all the time, buying the latest gadgets and getting kitchens refitted.... and always thought they must be on fantastic salaries to afford all this luxury! Only more recently have I found out that it was all on the never-never... bank loans, CC's, HP up to their ears. Now the same friends are moaning that they're struggling to keep up with the payments & have zip-all in the bank. Something about making beds and lying in them?

sieglinde Wed 06-Apr-11 12:20:44

Chil, agree about GB hating the middle as well. But are we you or he saying there should be no middle? Because if the goal is to make the average income the same for everyone, why would anybody do a demanding or difficult job?

Giddy, we're almost exactly like you. It's not stupid either to live some where where there's WORK, ffs. Or perhaps it is. Perhaps all of us should move to - dunno - Burnley - has lowest house price in UK - and go on benefits?

adamschic, how many hours a week do you work? how long was your training? How much debt did you rack up doing that training? How many hours homework did you do a night at school? Will consider a swap, but only if it can be backdated to age 14.

gingercat12 Wed 06-Apr-11 12:24:01

We'll be nearly £200 better off. Find this hard to believe. I suppose it means that we have not qualified for WTC or CTC or anything like that, so we'll not lose it and apparently I'll pay less tax. Of course, VAT increase is not included in the calculator.

I am so happy I am not the only one here who is considered to be a "bit tight" (DH). I have been considering to have a credit card to get frequent flier miles, but I do not think I could meet the spending requirements.

adamschic Wed 06-Apr-11 12:33:52

I work 30 hours a week. Have A levels and went to night school to qualify to a level 4 whilst working full time as a single mum when DD was 2! Is that good enough for you? The area I live is a low income area, that's why I wouldn't even earn an average wage even if I worked 35 hours a week. I have never claimed benefits, well once when I was made redundant.

I think people earning over the HRT shouldn't need benefits.

adamschic Wed 06-Apr-11 12:37:23

Will say I take your point that I could have made better choices but I don't think we should argue over it for the sake of what £30 a week with one child. Not everyone can be high earners.

SanctiMoanyArse Wed 06-Apr-11 12:43:42

'The idea that this key part of the working population should be penalised to protect many people who are not committed to their work, did not put in the hours over years, who have avoided educational opportunities and have not invested in their own skills is contrary to justice' What, people like DH and I? Me with my degree and self funded MA (almost) and DH with his redundancy payment, mature student study and new self employed business? Damn our lack of self starting ability eh?

We wouldn't be better off if we gave up working BUT we will be if the changes to DLA and the proposed disability tax credit cut affects us; that WOULD be a disincentive. Would DH stop work? Nah. He'd go stir crazy. Would the boys quality of life suffer? yes. Would their autism be cured because ATOS say it's not there? Sadly, no.

Can't wait to qualify and get away from dependency and the vagaries of sitting Governments.

throckenholt Wed 06-Apr-11 12:46:13

>Not everyone can be high earners.

Patently most people aren't. That is what surprised me. My field is populated by people who have first and most often higher degrees (so 3-6 years training min), earning roughly 35-45K. I have gained the impression over the years that that is not a particularly high salary for a "professional". But if that puts us (DH and I) in the top 20% income bracket by doing 1.3 FTE hours between us then it makes me realise just how little the majority must be earning. And how reliant they must be on both benefits and credit just to make ends meet.

You see headlines of people earning much higher salaries (and I know a lot who think 40K is a pitiful salary) - and it makes you realise just how big the range is.

I also tend to think those making the decisions have no idea what it is like to exist on the "average" income.

Chil1234 Wed 06-Apr-11 12:51:49

"if the goal is to make the average income the same for everyone, why would anybody do a demanding or difficult job? ".... Self-esteem? Job satisfaction? Career progression? There is definitely a grey area in that section between average earnings and the HRT threshold where a small increase in earnings does not improve your living standards. But most people push past that in the belief that it's best to keep climbing the ladder regardless.

Fridayd Wed 06-Apr-11 12:59:21

Apparently i am going to be £1500 worse off, not helpful living in london, working over 40 hours a week, being a single mother, so am going to have to consider many things, nursery's are really expensive and when looking there just weren't any cheaper ones. Per month that is the equivalent of 90% of our grocery bill, so food, work or nursery ...

GrendelsMum Wed 06-Apr-11 13:05:42

Wahay! We're £11.88 better off. I shall go out and spend it on booze.

I think that Throckenholt makes a good point - that £35-45k is often portrayed as not being a 'good' professional wage, but in fact, it's comfortably in the top 20%

gramercy Wed 06-Apr-11 13:09:12

I heard an interesting programme a while ago on the radio talking about the average wage. A married man with two kids called David from London who was, I think, 43 wanted to know how he rated compared with other Davids of 43.

The programme said that "average wages" are not a good term, because the average includes pensioners, school leavers etc who bring down the average. I remember that a typical David from London would have a gross household income of about £55K by the time they were 43.

So I think it is disingenuous of the govt (well, fancy that!) to imply that on £42K you're well off, when in fact it entirely depends on your age and circumstances.

peppapighastakenovermylife Wed 06-Apr-11 13:09:12

Depends on how much you have to live on Adamschic grin

JemimaMop Wed 06-Apr-11 13:13:07

According to the bbc calculator we will be over £1000 better off hmm

DevonDumplin Wed 06-Apr-11 13:13:12

Although I admit I don't fully understand the finer points, I'm starting to feel like it's another attack on those people who work hard to support themselves and rewarding those who sit on their arses!

We're a very hard working couple, both work a 40-50 hour week for fairly low salaries, both worked through uni to pay our fees ourselves, privately renting and waiting to get married, have a family, mortgage etc because we're saving to do it ourselves and we'll be £800 pa worse off. My friend who lives in a council unit rent free!! has 4 children by 4 different dads as is pregnant with number 5 (all planned or at least not avoided), smokes like a chimney, has 3 dogs, has never worked and doesn't intend on ever working is going to be £300 better off (not including what she'd get anyway for new baby).

Don't get me wrong I love her very much it's just that i'm starting to feel that working hard all my life is being punished!! Rant over. Am now going to sleep before my 13 hour night shift. zzzzzzzzzz

sieglinde Wed 06-Apr-11 13:14:12

But Chil, what is 'career progression' if it's not increased earnings? A Service Stripe? And by a difficult job I mean a stressful one with long hours, though not all of these are well-paid. Maybe too the belief - or faith - to which you allude is not a permanent fact of life, but likely to disappear under pressure from reality.

adamschic, it's that I no longer feel sure about ANYBODY'S choices. My own included. Clearly I should have rushed into a bank. grin

Sanctimoany, I did say at the get go NOT disabled, not people caring for disabled. Nobody means you or yours.

JemimaMop Wed 06-Apr-11 13:19:33

Oh and I'm with adamschic.

I have a degree in a different field but there aren't many jobs around here in that field. I changed career after having my second child, and gained a Level 4 qualification in the new field at my own expense. I have a job which I love, but it is working for a charity so wages will never be high (although the stress levels sometimes are!).

We live in an area where wages are low in comparison to house prices. DH doesn't earn a huge amount, although it is more than the local average (I married for love not money).

We could move, but both our families are here and the quality of life is great. However my monthly budget would keep some of you awake at night I'm sure!

DebiTheScot Wed 06-Apr-11 13:21:20

It totally baffled me. I couldn't remember dh's salary so put in the lower value and it said we'd be £82 worse off. Then tried it again with the higher number and it said we'd be £140 better off!
Sat looking at it for ages before I realised it's because according to their calculation we recieved £340 tax credits based on lower salary and only £78 based on higher one but will lose it all anyway.

As dh only started his current job this year and got a pay rise for it and the tax credit is worked out based on last year's salary I'm none the wiser as to how much difference it'll make to us!

I agree with the daftness of the general £42k = well off. Location and therefore mortgage affects that the most but obviously lots of other things do too.

needmyrootsdone Wed 06-Apr-11 13:25:40

Can someone please tell me what's happening with Working tax Credits? We get the min. £40/month for two children.

Is that going? DH - 47K, part-time 22K. Everyone talking about child tax credits - that's something different isn;t it? blush

When is CB actually going? Is it 2013?
When are public sector pension contributions increasing?

Got all of above to look forward to.

On paper we might look ok, but we are stretched with childcare + big mortgage. We are lucky I have potential to earn £800/month more if went FT but that means time away from DCs, just spending more on nursery fees and a very stressed household. sad

sieglinde Wed 06-Apr-11 13:26:58

But jemima, you are therefore choosing to pay a premium for closeness to family, job satisfaction, and quality of life... which is fine. Sounds like you've made very good choices.

Niceguy2 Wed 06-Apr-11 13:28:24

Exactly Devon. The problem is that the system is all wrong. At the moment it's pretty much "Here's some money based on whatever criteria you can we'll beat you for taking that money"

The bottom line is that throwing money at people is not the answer and what it's doing is encouraging people not to work, rewarding those who can play the system and penalising those who do.

What I'd like to see is a VERY basic minimum direct support but then a lot more indirect support.

So for example, employers should be given incentives to employ disabled people. Let's say it costs i dunno...£2k to adapt a training course, change their desk & chair. Let the business claim the costs back from the govt.

Unemployed? Here's free education, free childcare whilst you are in college studying & once you get a job, a gradual tapering of subsidised childcare. But let's limit JSA to a defined period of time (eg. 2 years).

My point is that giving money to someone is rarely the answer. We need to move to a system which rewards people for working hard and doing the right thing. Not "here's some money now go away!"

JemimaMop Wed 06-Apr-11 13:29:24

I don't think on a joint income of £69K you will get any tax credits at all. Try running the figures through this calculator

needmyrootsdone Wed 06-Apr-11 13:35:53

didn't think so - does it stop automatically this month or do you have to inform?

Don't want to end up in a situation owing it back

Chil1234 Wed 06-Apr-11 13:40:22

@needmyrootsdone HMRC Tax Credits will assume your circumstances have stayed the same until they receive your new claim in a few weeks time. If your existing circs mean you no longer qualify under the new rules, you'll get no more payments.

adamschic Wed 06-Apr-11 13:44:01

Jemima, same here, great job for a charity in a lovely area which I feel lucky to live and work in. No-one in our organisation is a HRT payer not even the top dogs. I really would not miss a few quid a week handouts if my income was more than double to take me up to such heights.

JemimaMop Wed 06-Apr-11 13:53:19

I think you learn to live on the amount that you have (although at the very bottom of the scale this must be very tough).

SIL lives in the SE and her household income is more than 4 times ours with the same size house and the same number of children. But I don't think they have any more spare cash left over at the end of the month than we do.

So anyone facing cuts will feel the pinch as they are used to more money coming in.

PrincessScrumpy Wed 06-Apr-11 13:53:46

I was hoping to go back to work after twins are born (and a year's mat leave). Looks like childcare will be more than my income and tax credits won't balance it out so guess I should start budgeting to become a SAHM. Hey ho.

stressedbutluvem Wed 06-Apr-11 13:58:41

Worked hard, stayed at school, got qualifications, trained as a nurse, went back and got more qualifications with my own money in my own time. Worked for the NHS for 22 years. Look after my kids by working p/t when they go to bed, do charity work, support our school and church. Instil into our kids the need to work hard, fend for themselves and be good to others.
Husband pretty much all the same things and now??
Ive been made redundant, pay freeze in NHS for hubby for 3 years, losing his on call pay but still has to do the on call, works every 4th weekend,opportunities for any paid overtime gone but still works average of 10 additional unpaid hours a week to get the job done which is pretty standard for clinical NHS workers. Will get caught up in the new tax band, will lose child benefit and I think child tax credit. So, approx £1200-£1400 per month worse off, baby on the way (before all of this became known), no baby element of child tax credit anymore, cant afford a pram, certainly no holiday, hubby drives an old banger, cant afford extra curricular school stuff for daughter and she doesn't even bring home the letters for school holidays. Clear to me that as we're not 70K plus earners who probably wont feel the changes then we would almost certainly be better off on benefits. Not saying I have a halo by any stretch of the imagination but what are you supposed to teach your kids about being responsible members of society?? (no insult to those who have had a rough ride and thus ended up dependant on benefits for this reason) Oh, and thats in the North west.Totally fed up.Every single hit seems to have come our way.

GrendelsMum Wed 06-Apr-11 14:00:39

I remember the programme about whether 'David' was well off - very interesting. Was it More or Less?

Don't forget that our hypothetical David is a man, which raises his average income, and in London, which raises his average income. And didn't they take into account his education level as well? So they were asking something more like 'how much does a University-educated man of 43 in London earn on average', which would actually tip him very much to the higher end of the scale.

notyummy Wed 06-Apr-11 14:12:45

£500 worse off- no tax credits involved as we were not eligible anyway. We'll manage.

NoseyNooNoo Wed 06-Apr-11 14:16:08

We're about £1500 pa worse off. It's a bit of a bugger especially since we recently moved house. However, the changes have been widely sign-posted and we all have to tighten our belts don't we?

£101.62 better off here, all due to the income tax threshold going up. DH gets an apparently slightly higher than average salary and I don't even earn enough to pay any income tax. Woohoo. We don't drink/smoke at all so that helps to minimise the impact of VAT rise I suppose.

allgonebellyup Wed 06-Apr-11 14:22:37

can anyone say whether i will be worse off?
Am single parent, i work full time practically but only earn £13k.

JemimaMop Wed 06-Apr-11 14:23:56

I would guess that you would be better off. Try running your figures through the bbc calculator linked to at the start of the thread.

throckenholt Wed 06-Apr-11 14:25:46

>Am single parent, i work full time practically but only earn £13k.

I bloody well hope you will be better off otherwise their justification for it all means nothing. They are claiming most people will be better off I think (although not sure how that is supposed to save money ?).

sieglinde Wed 06-Apr-11 14:34:07

stressedbut, you are just the kind of 'loser' I have in mind, and I have no bloody idea what to tell my kids either, or why people like you and your family should bear the brunt of this. Holidays? Don't make me laugh. We don't get any. I work all year round to earn a bit extra, and so does DH. Still, we couldn't afford them anyway grin

Lottiegal Wed 06-Apr-11 14:36:24

We will be about £800 worse off, dh is a civil servant so is on a pay freeze for 2 years and his has recently forced to pay a high pension contribution. That along with NI and tax rise and scrapping of child benefti will hit our household income hard. I'm a sahm with two toddlers and am 7 months pregnant. I feel annoyed that I'm not able to get a job right now to supplement our income, it will be at least 6 months before I can do that. Also the whole thing about trying to increase social mobility is silly, I came from a working class background went to uni and worked hard for 10 years until we were 'secure' enough to have a family. Now we are no better off really than if I'd stayed local and got an admin job (nothing against admin of course). Where is the incentive to better yourself financially if you are going to be chastised for it in taxes?

Lottiegal Wed 06-Apr-11 14:38:22

Just wanted to add we live in the SE and dh earns just over the higher tax threshold. We have one 12 year old car and haven't had a foreign holiday in 5 years (since having kids) We live in a modest 2 bed terraced house.

I agree with most posts but KaraStarbuck I must disagree with your comment:
"Niceguy2 - I agree with you. £45K is a good income up in the North, but if you live in the SE/London it doesn't get you far - house prices and rents are very very scary!"

I live in 'the North', about 20mins from Chester and my job involves a lot of contact with people living in London/City and things are just as bad up here I can assure you!
I earn just above £45k and, whilst I agree I am not living on the breadline, I am not exactly living the highlife. My mortgage is over £1100/month (normal family home on a normal estate, nowt fancy) and our childcare costs are about £500/month at but about to shoot up as I am pg with #2 and dear MIL cannot look after 2 due to her age so we will have to pay for FT nursery (DD currently in nursery only 3 days a week due to kindness of MIL)

I'm certainly not wingeing about my lot but in the same way that someone earning just over £45k is being hit hard and should not be lumped into the same bracket as those earning £70k+++, don't assume that once you get above the M40 we're all living it up with oodles of spare cash. Prices are not that different. I appreciate that house prices may be a bit different in certain parts of the SE but it's not that different. Houses in Chester generally start at around £300k for a small terrace/apartment and up to £2m+ for a top spec/location house. We live outside, as cannot afford Chester prices.

On another note (probably been done to death) is that as I am a higher rate tax payer I will lose CB, yet my friend who is separated from her DH won't lose hers, despite her exDH being higher rate payer and paying a proper amount of maintenance to her. Don't begrudge my friend having it but if I split from DP and had the kids, I would still lose CB!
Sorry, just my side moan.

bronze Wed 06-Apr-11 14:57:24

Very very slightly better off though of course we won't feel it really with the way things are

wubblybubbly Wed 06-Apr-11 14:57:51

We live in the NE, my DH earns just above the national average, works hard, long hours, travels around the country, put himself through Uni, paid for professional qualifications etc.

We bought our house on an interest only mortgage, despite having a 50% deposit, it was the only way we could afford the monthly bills.

We're going to be around £100 a year better off according to the calculator. I think that's already gone on the increased price of food.

£500 better off apparently. hmm

minipie Wed 06-Apr-11 15:10:18

We're going to be about £3500 worse off.

Niceguy2 Wed 06-Apr-11 15:22:19

Yahoo News Link

Apparently according to the IFS, the budget "will slightly weaken the incentive to work at all"

Oh deep joy!

adamschic Wed 06-Apr-11 15:42:00

Anyone who seriously thinks they will be better of unemployed should go the the benefit calculator, you really wouldn't be.

sieglinde Wed 06-Apr-11 15:44:48

Of course not, adamschic - I've been on benefits in the past, and it sucks - but I might be just as well off going down to part-time and claiming Family Tax allowance. Then I'd drop below the new higher tax bracket.

minipie Wed 06-Apr-11 15:58:34

adamschic I wouldn't be better off financially, but I'd have a lot more time. And if so much of my income gets eaten up in tax, I might well decide to be a SAHM and have much more time at home.

UndercoverWorker Wed 06-Apr-11 16:05:53

£409 better off. Better than a slap in the face with a wet haddock but not much.

GabbyLoggon Wed 06-Apr-11 16:10:08

I think its negative with me. Rising cost of living is a big thing with those at the bottom of the money pile.

adamschic Wed 06-Apr-11 16:22:25

Seig, has always been the case though. The reason I work 4 days a week and have done since CTC/WTC came in is because I would have been no better off working 5 days. Also, the benefits to my sanity having a day off during the week to laze around organise stuff has been invaluable.

I'm out of the system next year so will miss all my lovely benefits, i.e CB/WTC and CTC and have to work full time. sad

lockets Wed 06-Apr-11 16:30:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sieglinde Wed 06-Apr-11 17:21:29

Yes, adamschic, but in my job if you drop to part-time you can absolutely copper-bottomed never go back to full-time.

hogsback Wed 06-Apr-11 17:41:17

£3,000 worse off according to BBC calculator. We are now in the unenviable position of having negative (K) PAYE codes.

naughtymummy Wed 06-Apr-11 18:09:25

can I ask what is a negative PAYE code ?

work84 Wed 06-Apr-11 18:21:06

Worse off here too.

noodle69 Wed 06-Apr-11 18:33:45

Our household income is 21.5k and we will be £416 worse off with the tax credits cut for childcare. Not too bothered though just have to cut back on a few bits.

noodle69 Wed 06-Apr-11 18:36:27

Thats with our household income with us both doing 70 hours between us to and we have never claimed help with housing or benefits except for tax credits towards childcare. I think 45k is a huge income. We pay £625 on a mortgage for a flat with no help towards costs, and we are both on near minimum wage. Its not that hard to do I dont think. It depends though on what your lifestyle is like some people I have seen on here think some things they buy are 'essentials' when they definitely arent!

Betelguese Wed 06-Apr-11 18:53:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Meglet Wed 06-Apr-11 18:58:57

£1k a year worse off.

The Con-dems just love lone parents hmm sad.

Want2bSupermum Wed 06-Apr-11 19:07:23

Luckily I am not a UK taypayer anymore and will pay around 12-15% income tax this year on our household income (we live in the US). When I lived in England I was a higher rate taxpayer after graduating from university because I worked three jobs. I do think the current tax system is unfair due to:

1 - Those on a low income receive benefits/credits which are not included in their income. A family earning GBP20k a year will get help towards their housing costs, council tax, nursery costs, tax credits as well as other benefits. While they may earn GBP20k a year their real income is much higher.

2 - Those in the higher income bands often have much higher expenses. Our friends wife is a barrister and as they both work long hours they will need a nanny when she goes back to work. Their household income is around GBP150k a year and the nanny costs them around GBP30k a year after they have paid all the taxes and cover for vacation. To bring in that kind of money they each work crazy hours, have more strict dress requirements (their dry cleaning bill is about GBP100 per month) and have a cleaner who comes in twice a week. Between them they still have around GBP45k of student debt left to repay. Her husband was recently offered a job here in the US. Shockingly they would be taking home more with only him working and the gross salary is less than what he makes in Edinburgh.

I do think the tax system should be changed so disposable income is taxed (income including benefits and credits received after rent or mortgage interest, nursery costs, pension contributions and cost of living deduction for each child you are supporting plus yourself). The cost of living deduction should be based on the postcode of your primary residence.

Betelguese Wed 06-Apr-11 19:23:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LouMacca Wed 06-Apr-11 19:34:00

Just under £750 worse off. £500 of that is the loss of child tax credits. We won't be having a foreign holiday this year, hopefully we will get a good summer here!

HarrietJones Wed 06-Apr-11 19:35:15

£20k won't get housing/CT benefit etc surely? I used to earn 15 as a LP and was only entitled to TC.that was the point I would have been better off not working as my dds would have got free school meals/ uniform etc.

HarrietJones Wed 06-Apr-11 19:35:52

about 6-7 years ago btw not now!

tazmosis Wed 06-Apr-11 19:45:13

£700 worse off.

bracing ourselves for Jan 13 when we'll be further circa £1500 pa worse off!!

happybubblebrain Wed 06-Apr-11 19:47:16

I think nearly everyone would feel better off and they should be able to save money if they lived a greener lifestyle i.e. didn't own a car, became vegetarian and were clever about their food shopping, bought everything second-hand and sold on things they don't need, cut their gas and electricity bills by turning everything off when possible etc etc. Just an idea.

PrincessScrumpy Wed 06-Apr-11 19:55:39

Happy - in your ideal world, how would my dh get to work? He drives an hour to get to his office each day, would take more than 2 hours by public transport. Therefore, we wouldn't be better off as dh would lose his job. Perhaps you should stay in your bubble.

PrincessScrumpy Wed 06-Apr-11 19:59:28

adamschic - I actually would be better off not working once my babies arrive as twins in childcare will be more than I earn now the tax credits for childcare have reduced. I'm not claiming loads of benefits (just child benefit and £33 a month tax credits for dd1) and have worked since I was 19. Would love to keep working a bit after mat leave but looks like I'll be a SAHM. Would have prefered to have a choice.

happybubblebrain Wed 06-Apr-11 20:00:19

Princess - most people don't have such a long commute and would be able to get around without a car. I'm not suggesting being car free would be possible for everyone. Besides, if more people started using public transport services would improve. Cars are such a huge drain on resources and on individual pockets. There's nothing wrong with having ideals.

HarrietJones Wed 06-Apr-11 20:05:12

Happy- we do all those except the car. Dh works in the opposite direction(30 mins) to me(40 min), it's compulsory for me to use my car and both of us are rural so we can't do any better that way.

Blackcoffeeandcigarettes Wed 06-Apr-11 20:12:07

Hello, I was going to start a thread about this but was embarrassed. I'm confused as to if we are going to be better or worse. Could someone help me? (dh is working away, he normally explains these things) i earn 17,000 basic and he earns 24,000 basic. Am I right in thinking there will be no changes? We earn commission though, and that varies. Some Times it will easily double our monthly income. Sometimes just 500. Normally we are just taxed on the basic level and the commission just filters into that. We don't have any children (yet) and claim no benefit. Tell me I can still go shoe shopping (and eat)!

PrincessScrumpy Wed 06-Apr-11 20:13:13

happy I'm in the west country and lots of people have long commutes. In the school I work at, most teachers drive for 30mins or more to get to work. dh does lift share with two other people most days so I don't feel we're being reckless. We planned to move closer to dh's work but then the property market went downhill.

We did look into me giving up my car once twins arrive but dd's school is too far for her to walk. She'd be exhausted before she even started.

PrincessScrumpy Wed 06-Apr-11 20:14:41

black coffee have a look at the bbc news site and go to the Polotics tab - there's a budget calculator on there.

We're better off by £376 but won't be when twins arrive.

Eumenide Wed 06-Apr-11 20:15:59

completely confused????

purits Wed 06-Apr-11 20:30:01

want2besupermum The cost of living deduction should be based on the postcode of your primary residence.

No way! I'm not paying taxes to subsidise Londoners' housing costs. Not unless you want to give some of it back when you sell up.hmm

Blackcoffeeandcigarettes Wed 06-Apr-11 20:31:19

£487 better off. £40 a month. Better than a slap in The face with a wet fish.

Blackcoffeeandcigarettes Wed 06-Apr-11 20:32:15

Thanks princess!

noodle69 Wed 06-Apr-11 20:50:58

1 - Those on a low income receive benefits/credits which are not included in their income. A family earning GBP20k a year will get help towards their housing costs, council tax, nursery costs, tax credits as well as other benefits. While they may earn GBP20k a year their real income is much higher.

I have am on 21.5k and have never recieved help with council tax, rent etc as our income is to high. My real income isnt much higher at all I get Cb and will be getting £35 a week tax credits which goes towards childcare.

noodle69 Wed 06-Apr-11 20:53:50

Its just if your on low income you spend less. I spend £25 on food a week for a family of 3. Things like that is where you make cutbacks a night with friends would be buying a £3 bottle of cider and sharing it with a friend. Thats the kind of things I do to save money.

Yani811 Wed 06-Apr-11 20:58:34

My head hurts after see ing the result of the calculator. I just went back to work in September after being sick for two years. I was soo looking forward to going back to work. Now, after paying rent an utilities I'cant afford to cover the rest of the childcare cost. This government doesn't support family life. I will be better off living as a single mom that with my kids dad.

Haven36 Wed 06-Apr-11 21:13:14

Hoping the figures i get are correct i should be better off, but my child care is going up by £40 per month (not alot for some peeps) but for me only working part time its a big chunk plus we are very low income this year as parter was only employed part time for most of last year. I had having to relay on tax credits would love to earn enough for it not to matter each year i dread getting the letter thru telling me how much i will get, very stressful.

cakeretention Wed 06-Apr-11 21:25:14

"if more people started using public transport services would improve"


More people did start using it. Now there isn't anywhere to sit.

AimingForSerenity Wed 06-Apr-11 21:26:17

I haven't checked but am assuming we'll be worse off because we always are!

I remember how hard it was when our children were little and have noticed a few comments on here about the North South divide in salaries/costs, etc. Years ago we lived in Surrey and found it really hard so decided to move up to the North West. Although it hasn't always been easy financially I think it's been a darn sight easier to bring up our children here than it would have been had we stayed down south.

Maybe if people are finding it so hard they should find if they could move and have a better life somewhere else. We have never regretted it (except for when I want some nice shops!)

OhForASilentNight Wed 06-Apr-11 21:28:44

Erm, from the calculator it would suggest that I'd be about £500 better off (£25k between us, 2 DDs, both in childcare)... well, perhaps we would be if our salaries had been increased, DH hadn't just been given redundancy notice, and, oh yes, if it weren't for the fact that utilities, fuel, groceries, clothing, etc hadn't gone up at all in the past year. It has to be said that I certainly don't FEEL better off!

OhForASilentNight Wed 06-Apr-11 21:38:47

happybb I think you'll find that most people living in rural communities couldn't get by without a car. I have to drive 12 miles to and from work every day. There is a bus service, but only on Wednesdays and Fridays. Oh, at 10am and 2pm. And because that is a subsidised service its likely to be axed or reduced.

Betelguese Wed 06-Apr-11 21:52:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sleepingonthebus Wed 06-Apr-11 22:02:22

I'm going to be around £492 better off.

Better than I was expecting.

wasabipeanut Wed 06-Apr-11 22:05:00

I'm too scared to look at how much worse off we actually are. It will be a good few hundred no doubt. We don't get tax credits or any of that but tax threshold/NI changes will hammer DH's earnings. I might keep a tiny bit more as I barely earn enough to pay tax anyway and they have upped that threshold I think.

I only read the first couple of pages of the thread but I can't help identifying with the sense of unfairness that it's people who play by the rules, work hard etc. that get hit every time. In all fairness though I can't really see where else it could come from. The poor by definition can't be taxed any more and the very rich just aren't enough in numbers to raise the sums required. Plus the buggers keep it all offshore anyway angry

This leaves - us.

wasabipeanut Wed 06-Apr-11 22:08:54

I'm too scared to look at how much worse off we actually are. It will be a good few hundred no doubt. We don't get tax credits or any of that but tax threshold/NI changes will hammer DH's earnings. I might keep a tiny bit more as I barely earn enough to pay tax anyway and they have upped that threshold I think.

I only read the first couple of pages of the thread but I can't help identifying with the sense of unfairness that it's people who play by the rules, work hard etc. that get hit every time. In all fairness though I can't really see where else it could come from. The poor by definition can't be taxed any more and the very rich just aren't enough in numbers to raise the sums required. Plus the buggers keep it all offshore anyway angry

This leaves - us.

teahouse Wed 06-Apr-11 22:20:49

I'm a single mum but my youngest is in year 11 so no help there. Because I can't afford to live closer to work I have a 15 mile drive everyday, and because I work in the public sector shortly my pension contribution will be so high it'll be food or my pension - has to be food!

Because there is just me even though I don't earn too bad a salary I have a stupidly high rate on my mortgage for my tiny 3 bed ex-council house (bought 5 years ago for my and 2DSs).

With the increase in the cost of petrol I'm stuffed although of course I could be made redudent soon in the upcoming round of cuts and then I will lose my hard won house (rented for 5 years whilst I got qualifications) and my year 11 child will have to live with his dad, and my eldest who is at Uni won't have a home with me to return to in the hols as I'll be homeless (and with so little social housing that could mean I am literally on the streets!).

I'm not earning anything like £40K so I have no idea why the Government thinks 'on average' I'll be better off. On the calculater I'll be almost £90 worse off; thanks Cameron et al

theanimalswentintwobytwo Wed 06-Apr-11 22:35:20

£179.40 better off if I don't work.

£270.75 better off if I work 20 hours per week at minimum wage (excluding childcare cost off course!!)

Want2bSupermum Wed 06-Apr-11 22:41:31

I highly doubt the rest of the country would be subsiding those in London. Most employers add a weighting to salaries recognise the additional cost of living in London, therefore these employees earn more but pay more in tax %wise compared to those working outside of London. In addition, most Londoners pay more stamp duty when purchasing a home as house prices are much higher compared to the rest of the country.

There are loopholes that need tightening up in the UK. I would start by changing the law so the gain on the sale of a primary residence is tax free up to GBP250k but you have to have owned and used the property as your primary residence for the prior three years to qualify for this break. Obv MPs are not going to fight for that change as they have been benefiting from the current set up. After that I would disallow the favourable tax treatment of foreign workers here on secondment. I was flabbergasted that my tenant is able to deduct her rent from salary and pay tax on the balance while I, as a resident, was always taxed on my gross income.

noodles - While you might not get help with rent and council tax your credit is worth GBP1820 per year and your child benefit is worth around GBP1900 a year. This benefit is the equivalent of you earning GBP5,470.58 before tax. I am not saying you shouldn't get this help but I do think it should be included when calculating 'average' income and this amount should be shown as your benefit which you then pay tax on. I know it ends up being a wash but it makes income numbers more transparent.

bumpandisaacsmum Wed 06-Apr-11 22:56:42

According to te calculator we'd be £500 better off, but as a nurse earning about 20k and my partner earning 12k it not really surprising!!!

With changes within payment of fuel etc at work I will probably end up being worse off

We have always been careful with money and living in the SE it doesn't go far but if you look at your income and budget to it then it is possible to live comfortably. We haven't had a foreign holiday for a couple of years but prefer to enjoy regular camping holidays at a lot less cost and as much enjoyment!!

I hate to hear people moan when really they are well off in comparison to a lot of people; I don't believe that that means you should be penalised and pay for those who really are work-shy but for some people it is not easy to get a job that pays the sort of money that pays well.

vj32 Thu 07-Apr-11 04:52:51

We will struggle a bit financially this year. We are about to have our first child. If she had been due a year (or in some cases a month) earlier we would have been entitled to about £1k of govt help in tax credits etc which is now gone. We will be living off DH's salary of about £23 plus SMP for me until I go back to work. We both have 'professional' jobs and have degrees, and live in the SE. But, we wouldn't have planned this child if we couldn't pay for its support. And while we will struggle a little, we will be able to budget and we will be OK. To be honest I don't really think that we will be in need, or deserving of state help. It would have been nice, but not needed. And benefits should be for those who need them.

I really don't understand those people complaining about choices they have made. It fine to say poor me, I have a large mortgage/several children/live in the SE etc but those are things that you chose to do. You could move to Bolton and buy a family house for the same price as a small 2 bed terrace in the SE. You could give up work and just go on benefits - (after all its an easy life isn't it?) but you don't want to.
People should stop whinging about their choices. If you don't like something about your life, then change it. But complaining that on £45k or 65k that your tax credits have been cut is fairly insensitive to the majority of people who earn FAR less than that and are just getting on with it.

noodle69 Thu 07-Apr-11 06:53:56

Want2BeSupermum - How is CB 1900 a year? Thats a lot. We only get £970? Our whole income together is £24292 I have just worked out. That is for working 70 hours a week. I still am going to be over £400 worse off, but I am not that bothered as everyone is in the same boat so no point in worrying about it.

I pay a huge mortgage in comparison to my income (40%) but thats my choice to do that because I dont want to move areas as I live in the South so Im not going to moan about it. Just got to get on with it until its paid down a bit. I agree with vj32.

Iggly Thu 07-Apr-11 07:17:09

vj32 if only it were that simple to just move. I could get a job up north and have a better quality of life. However the tax on mobility known as stamp duty plus all other associated costs of selling and moving means it's not an easy option.

noodle69 Thu 07-Apr-11 07:26:53

It depends what you want to live in you can get 3/4 bed ex council up north near some of my family for 62k. I bet if you really wanted you could move from where you are to that Iggly.

Ihavebeencreditcrunched Thu 07-Apr-11 09:31:40

Live in Sotland, two adults, two pre school age children. DH 40+hrs PW £25500 Gross PA. Me 12hrs PW £12000 Gross PA (£37500)

We work out £480 PA better off with NI/Tax but lose £730 PA tax credits
I have a pay freeze and am waiting for the higher pension contributions to start.

So far £- 250 and we had already lost £400 PM due to cuts in DH weekly wage and previous reduction in tax credits.

So far since this crap started we will have lost £5250 PA

We don't drink or smoke, rarely go for a meal ...maybe twice per year. I work weekends so we don't pay childcare as we couldn't afford it. We have one car.

adamschic Thu 07-Apr-11 09:32:33

Stamp Duty is only a tax on buying a house, not selling one. You could buy something for under 125K and not pay anything, also this amount is exempt.

I will soon be a single woman with no dependents. I don't need a 3 bed house and am considering downgarding to a smaller place in the nearest and cheaper town as I'm fed up paying a mortgage. Will miss living in the village but choices and all that!

MollysChambers Thu 07-Apr-11 09:38:12

We moved for a better quality of life.

From a very expensive place to a very rural, very cheap (in terms of housing) place to live. DH is on same (very average) salary but we now live in a much bigger house in a lovely area and are mortgage free.

Best move we ever made.

MrsOtter Thu 07-Apr-11 09:40:18

Ihavebeencreditcrunched - I don't understand why you going to lose tax credits, we are in roughly the same position as you and ours will remain the same - unless I'm missing something confused

CherryPie3 Thu 07-Apr-11 09:46:38

I must be doing that online calculator wrong as it says we would be better off if I gave up work? hmm

This may have just swung my discussion with dh in my favour about not returning to work after maternity leave grin

Due to go back anytime between now and July - might as well not bother and be a little richer too hmm

MrsOtter Thu 07-Apr-11 09:55:02

I think next year if you earn over £25k you will dramatically lose tax credits so I'd factor that into your calculations cherrypie3

CherryPie3 Thu 07-Apr-11 09:55:57

Definitely not me doing it wrong. Have just done it several more times and got the same figures.

Doesn't even make sense. It's like an incentive not to work.

Don't get me wrong...I want be a SAHM for the time being, until my children are all at school - I just never expected being wealthier for doing so!

CherryPie3 Thu 07-Apr-11 09:58:32

Aaah thank you MrsOtter, dh earns £30k + any bonus he achieves.

I would be earning around £9k for part-time work.

If the tax credits are being reduced, might have to just stay at home until then, then phase back into work. Hmmmm.....

God I wish I understood all this!

MrsOtter Thu 07-Apr-11 09:59:28

Thats just this year 2011-2012, after april 2012 there are more changes to tax credits and less people will recieve them.

I can't work out how much we will get but think we will pretty much lose them (household income of £37k gross)

MrsOtter Thu 07-Apr-11 10:00:33

I know its so confusing - I ust want a claculator for 2012 -2013 so I know where we stand but can't find one any where

CherryPie3 Thu 07-Apr-11 10:01:31

I bet we lose them too, it wouldn't even help if I called tax credits cos they won't even know yet will they.

Sneaky govt people!

MrsOtter Thu 07-Apr-11 10:04:49

I have to phone them in a minute to update our claim so will ask them!

MollysChambers Thu 07-Apr-11 10:07:39

I think the lack of information is crazy.

If people knew they were going to be significantly worse off next April they could start planning for that now. Both by budgeting accordingly and looking at ways to get back in to work or increase hours.

All this uncertainty makes people like me less willing to spend which is precisely what the government don't want. They're relying on consumer spending to keep the economy afloat. Stupid, stupid Tories.

CherryPie3 Thu 07-Apr-11 10:28:42

They claim they're cleaning up labours mess tho?

Think I might still vote labour in may. Even if they did leave a massive debt.

GiddyPickle Thu 07-Apr-11 10:30:56

Some of the changes yesterday were Labour's changes (eg the increase in N.I). I admit it would be good though to know in advance the implications of next year's changes on household budgets.

thinNigella Thu 07-Apr-11 12:17:47

I take home about £2000. Yes that is a lot of money and I am very grateful and enjoy my job.
My half of the outgoings each month are: nursery £400, mortgage £700, food £60pw, diesel £75 pw and elec, water, gas council tax £120pm. This leaves £240pm for phones, 'non essentials' like contact lenses, dentists etc.

I save a little - £35pm into a pension and a little more - £35 into DCs account. I don't think that is very much for our futures.

So after all that I have a disposable income each month of around £170 to cover mobile phone, hair, eyes, clothes and shoes for DC, and anything I actually like to buy for myself or DC having worked all month. It feels as if this does not go very far.

I don't feel very well off, but I am lucky that I have a job and that I do not have to live beyond my means. I am careful with money but i am humbled when I read on here about what some poeple earn and manage on.

I do not want pay outs and I expect to work for my money and lifestyle. But no I am not in the top 20% of this country.

kaseyone Thu 07-Apr-11 12:53:09

I would be about £30 better off. Our family wage is about 35K. It makes trying for promotion, or any sort of striving a waste of time.

MollysChambers Thu 07-Apr-11 13:03:01

CherryPie - The recession was global, not just UK, so they can claim they're cleaning up Labour's mess all they want, it's not true.

The cuts they're making are too fast, too deep and based on ideology.

throckenholt Thu 07-Apr-11 13:44:58

>I would be about £30 better off. Our family wage is about 35K. It makes trying for promotion, or any sort of striving a waste of time.

I think it is going to become increasingly common where people move up a yearly increment on a pay scale (ie a pay rise of about £500 pa) and they then leap into the next band and pay more tax, lose benefits etc and end up a lot worse off. I wonder if you can ask your employers to save up your increments for a year or two so that you can then jump up 2 or 3 points and at least break even ? Doubt it.

Hatterbox Thu 07-Apr-11 13:47:06

We're going to be £1,370 worse off.

Chil1234 Thu 07-Apr-11 14:12:46

@throckenholt. This year's drop in the HRT threshold is unusual. Normally, the tax thresholds and personal allowances all move up a little each year. So, if you get a cost of living increase, you stay under the threshold. And even if a pay-rise means being worse off short-term I think you have to take the long view and see it as a stepping stone to better things.

FriggFRIGG Thu 07-Apr-11 18:06:33

we will be £627.11 better off shock

but we are on a single income of 17000 before tax with 2 DC's so we really would be ^totally ^ screwed if we lost even a tenner a week...
and our rent might be going up next month <terrified>

IsElmoMaleorFemale Thu 07-Apr-11 19:28:04

So what happens to all these people who will be struggling even more than before now? do they just turn a blind eye?

pastagirl Thu 07-Apr-11 19:50:44

we will be 1,560 pound worse off, we are 600 pound over the 40 grand limit. if we reduced our wage we would be better off. so if i asked to drop a few hundred pound to you think my employers would think that strange?

IsElmoMaleorFemale Thu 07-Apr-11 19:56:27

Ha ha, thats a good idea, and surely they wouldnt mind as it would be saving them £600!!

ploddingalongnicely Thu 07-Apr-11 19:57:59

I dont understand how i am worse off when i'm a LP on 7k a year...

wubblybubbly Thu 07-Apr-11 20:03:49

pastagirl, ask about salary sacrifice.

fifitot Thu 07-Apr-11 20:08:11

I think I lose my £90 pm tax credits from next month. Not sure how much I will gain with tax changes. Will now do childcare vouchers if I can get them at work.

JennyPiccolo Thu 07-Apr-11 20:48:49

We'll be slightly better off. Clearly benefit scum, here.

Actually, i wish we were benefit scum, DP can't even get dole money.

hogsback Thu 07-Apr-11 21:02:27

naughtymummy it's when you don't have any personal allowance and owe tax from last year because they gave you the wrong tax code last year Over a certain income (not sure how much) you don't get a tax free personal allowance any more and they tax you at 50%. If I was bothered about money I suspect I could employ an accountant to do clever things.

bitsyandbetty Thu 07-Apr-11 21:21:40

£8.13 better off but not sure how perhaps underestimated petrol. We don't smoke and drink very little alcohol though.

DwayneDibbley Thu 07-Apr-11 21:28:47

Message withdrawn

DwayneDibbley Thu 07-Apr-11 21:33:04

Message withdrawn

angrymomma Thu 07-Apr-11 21:35:00

I don't understand how I am losing £70.00 per month!

Earnings just under £15,000, no childcare to pay

3 DCs age 9, 4 and 3.

Went to cash machine today and it was £70.00 less than normal. Am not happy!!!

BoffinMum Thu 07-Apr-11 21:39:56

If it's any comfort, I remember sobbing to my accountant about how hard up I felt compared to everyone else locally who had nice cars, sent their kids to private school, had skiing holidays and so on. I explained I worked hard and earned a good living, but couldn't see how they managed to live like that.

He replied, "Boff, they can't. Believe me, I see all their accounts."

Very salutory.

doley Thu 07-Apr-11 22:43:53

angrymomma that does not sound right at all ~sorry to hear that .

Iggly Fri 08-Apr-11 08:29:36

Sorry coming back to this late - yes I could get a stamp duty exempt house but I'd have to sell my place which isn't exempt. I can't buy without selling.

Niceguy2 Fri 08-Apr-11 09:17:47

@Pastagirl, i agree with Wubbly. Before you go & ask to have your salary cut, you may want to see if your firm does any salary sacrifice stuff. I know I can "sacrifice" some of my salary for increased company contributions to my pension. Or even for a laptop (albeit at a very inflated price). Still I'd rather have a shiny laptop than pay any more taxes to the bottomless pit which is our tax system.

haymichpink Fri 08-Apr-11 10:20:24

I don't work, my husband does, earning £32,000, we have taken a drop of £150 a month! It isn't that much I guess but when you have a profoundly disabled son it does affect us! I can go out and buy a bike for my older 'normal' son for under a hundred pounds! We have just had a quote for £1,552 for a specialist bike for our disabled son!!!!! That's just one example of the money we have to pay for equipment that isn't covered on the NHS and even stuff that is funded is one long fight to try and get! I really thought that Cameron would have some empathy with families caring for disabled children having had a disabled child of his own but I was wrong!

161070harris Fri 08-Apr-11 11:12:42

I am a single parent, i work 37 hours a week, i earn less than £20'000 and i have had my tax credits cut by £22 a week!!! and i am struggling. How on earth am i supposed to take my child out to your lovely new sponsor (West Midlands Safaria Park at £48.47 a go!!!!

sakura Sat 09-Apr-11 06:19:30

seglinde! this was genius
"They like those on 150k plus, people like themselves, and they have little snivelly Dickensian reveries about the poor so they can sleep well at night. "

angrymomma Sat 09-Apr-11 07:55:58

Is anyone actually getting any extra money? And if you are, how?

I really don't understand how they can suddenley whack so much off folk who they deemed at one time to be entitled to it.

GrendelsMum Sat 09-Apr-11 09:35:07

It's a cliche, but I think it's true, that you can't judge a person's income from their expenditure. Some family members are very well off , but I can tell you that they have one elderly car, go most places by bike, live in a slightly run-down 4 bed house, and, if we want to meet up, usually suggest taking a couple of sandwiches and having a picnic in the park.

They recently came into another £500k tax free and it made no difference to their lifestyle - we can only guess that they either gave it away anonymously or it's been put in trust for grandchildren.

fifitot Sat 09-Apr-11 12:12:48

Is it the case that changes in tax will mean more money in our pay packets? I ask this as am very confused. Just had the letter confirming we will be not getting tax credits now - that is a £90 pm loss which will be a significant one I can tell you!

I think I can get childcare vouchers - will that help do you think? I know will pay less tax, but as much as £90 less? Anyone know how it works.

PrincessScrumpy Sat 09-Apr-11 17:11:24

Childcare vouchers mean you can put £243 a month in a childcare "fund" and use it to pay towards childcare. Saves me about £50 a month and if you are earning less than around £20,000 then you should have more in your pay packet as you will pay less tax - I think. I'll wait until my next pay packet and find out.

I have no idea what'll happen with my tax credits but at £33 a month I'm sure we'll cope. It is very handy though.

ByTheSea Sat 09-Apr-11 17:21:02

We'll be about £500 worse off.

SardineQueen Sat 09-Apr-11 17:40:21

£328 better off, if nothing had changed apart fro the budget happening.

The fact I have lost my job due to the cuts though means the minor loss of £21K per year. Not to be sniffed at hmm

I'm going to run it through as if I had always been one of Dave's beloved SAHMs...

SardineQueen Sat 09-Apr-11 17:42:15

Hmmm 12.96 better off. If we forget about the small matter of my job...

lynnedyloo Mon 11-Apr-11 18:37:37

im a single mum with 2 kids and i work full time and earn less than£14000 and im still going to be £500 worse off!!! really dont know how they justify it!!!

angrymomma Mon 11-Apr-11 22:54:18

lynnedyloo, am similar situation as you.

Completely mystified as to how 'they' work these things out.

Am waiting for an expert to come along soon and explain it to me.

mrstapir Tue 12-Apr-11 11:38:08

I feel really irked by the cut in child benefit. I earn just enough to lose my child benefit. My husband is a stay at home dad. I work with many people who have one child and a joint income of 80k who will not lose their child benefit. How can this be fair because my husband and I have decided that for our child, the best thing is to look after her at home? We can manage without it and I wouldn't mind but there is a lack of fairness.

MilaMae Tue 12-Apr-11 14:00:55

Just lost our tax credits which means we also will loose our water capping(I wonder if others realise they'll loose that too) so £60- £80 this month. Loose our entire child benefit when that rolls in so we'll loose about £300 a month.

It stinks to be frank.

fastedwina Tue 12-Apr-11 20:15:10

we will be worse off though not complaining as we are lucky enough to still be able to maintain a good standard of living compared to some others.

wheredidyoulastseeit Tue 12-Apr-11 21:23:20

actually I am so furious about how this government is affecting me and my childrens futures I cannot even put it into words.

But why is our just above benefit level income being assessed for university grants when our children will have the debt.

cwissy Mon 25-Apr-11 22:42:16

Hi i was wondering if someone could help me ? I am a single mum of four kids ( although my twins are 21 and have moved out ) but i still have my 2 daughters living with me one is 16 and at college and the other is 6 , I work 18 hrs a week and pay childcare costs for my 6 year old , could you tell me if it is true that the minimum working hours is changing to 24 hrs a week as if this is true i stand to lose my job as my employer has not got the hours to give me .

BellaTalbert Wed 04-Apr-12 15:30:24

£307 worse off from tax credits and still waiting for the CSA to get its act together I am seriously wondering if my daughter and I were on benefits

BellaTalbert Wed 04-Apr-12 15:31:01

Meant to say better off on benefits

WetAugust Wed 04-Apr-12 22:44:29


bronze Mon 16-Apr-12 09:31:10

Are they supposed to warn you about any changes as I've just found we're going to be £200 a month worse off by their simply changing the amount coming into our account. No warning or anything.

It's a hugely different amount to the figures the calculators have given me

I want a letter so i can check it. Fuck we're screwed this month as I need to budget

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