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I'm so, so sad about this.

62 replies

jabberwocky · 31/08/2005 17:39

I loved New Orleans Can't imagine what's going to happen....

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lilibet · 31/08/2005 20:46

Never been, but what a tragedy.

Keep wondering what we would do in a similar situation - decided we would go to a mumsnetter!!

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jabberwocky · 31/08/2005 20:58

They have just said that the ciy will most likely be underwater fot 3 - 6 months!!!!

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lilibet · 31/08/2005 21:13

I know - I heard that!!

What on earth would you do if it was your home and work place?

did you hear George W About it "this is a very bad storm"

No shit Sherlock award!!!

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Monstersmum · 31/08/2005 22:21

Is it just me or does the fact that it happened in the one of the richest countries in the world really shock you?

They have the money.
They have the knowledge.
They have the expertise.

So what the hell happened? This was bound to happen. Why weren't they better prepared??

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expatinscotland · 31/08/2005 22:30

It wouldn't be any different if it happened here, Monstmum. Just look at the UK's plans for the bird flu pandemic. What a joke! Protect all the higher ups and leave everyone else to die of plague. The poor mean nothing to either government.

And that's what most of those who perished were: poor. Louisiana and Mississippi are two of the poorest states in the union.

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jabberwocky · 31/08/2005 23:01

They've been talking about this for years, just couldn't seem to get the money to upgrade the pumps, etc.

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expatinscotland · 31/08/2005 23:05

It'd be virtually impossible to protect a city which lies in a bowl between the delta a major river and a bay from a storm of such force. Hell a Category 3 severely flooded Houston and it lies 50 miles inland. But it's flat and therein lies the problem. Below sea level, you'd need a miracle.

I liked to visit New Orleans. It was only a 5 hour drive from my native city and we enjoyed many a time there.

But what the French thought was a lake (Pontchartrain, which really does come close to being a lake, except for that opening out to the Gulf of Mexico) is actually a bay.

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expatinscotland · 31/08/2005 23:07

What I'm sad about is the poor job of evacuating folks.

But tbh it's astonishing New Orleans has been standing virtually unscathed for as long as it has, especially given its location.

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alux · 31/08/2005 23:19

I was in NO about 10 yrs ago when Hurricane Andrew was predicted a direct hit. I thanked my lucky stars then that it just grazed the city. I was panicing. A friend took me to see the levees which protected the city - they had so much faith in the levees. I said no way. You don't know the power of water. If one broke it would let the water in like a big soup bowl. They had faith in the levees, 30 fit high and wide enough for a Boening 737 to land on the top (I know cause once a 737 made an emergercy landing on one in NO!)

My family lived thru a monster storm like this in the 60's in the Caribbean and as a child I grew up hearing the horror stories of that hurricane. I respect them.

With little hurricane experience, people in the US from what I saw do not go much for preparing for after the storm. At home we stock up on food, fuel (to cook it in camp conditions) and water - recommended at least 7 days worth. People have their evacuation plans set up with friends and relatives away from the coast line.

Again, building codes in the city of NO and all over the southern US coast does not seem to take hurricane preparedness in mind. It is a matter of build them big, cheap and beautiful. After Andrew, Florida revised its building codes. It seems like it may have taken another disaster before other states will heed the warning.

NO is a city below sea level and the sea is only trying to reclaim what is hers. (Same as my home city in the Caribbean)

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suzywong · 01/09/2005 00:22

I've just been looking at the images on the disaster on BBC online and The Guardian.

Is it any coincidence that those people who could not afford to evacuate are almost all black? What I mean is that the lack of civic planning and resources to effect a thorough evacuation seems to have fallen short of the poorest section of the population, the black population.

Or am I being naiive and controversial?

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jabberwocky · 01/09/2005 01:20

I noticed that, too, SW.

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alux · 01/09/2005 02:11

no suzywong. you are not being controversial. its true. it wouldn't surprise me if there was no evacuation plan. it was every man for himself. if you did not have your own transport, you were stuck.

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SueW · 01/09/2005 06:00

It's been constant on the news here (I'm in California) including the build up to it. It was awful to watch it approaching, see people evacuating, knowing this bloody great storm was going to hit and there was NOTHING anyone oculd do to stop it, except ensure that as many people as possible were out.

According to the news, there were attempts to evacuate as many people as possible; those who could get out on their own were told to do so. Others were collected up and taken to the Superdome. You may have heard what happened there. Water leaked in anyway and 25,000 people in there found the toilets couldn't cope, they were backed up and overflowing.

In spite of attempts, I heard that only 80% of the 500,000 people were actually believed to have got out. Add to that the 25,000 in the Superdome, potentially leaving 75,000 still in the city. A city which is now flooded and looks like a open sewer.

Coincidentally another channel has run a programme today about last year's hurricanes including interviews with dozens of seemingly quite normal people who thought it 'couldn't be that bad' and decided to sit it out. All said they regretted their decision.

Here's one man's answer to the hurricanes-demolish-homes problem.

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throckenholt · 01/09/2005 07:59

Am I the only one thinking that NO may end up being the first of a number of low lying cities to be abandonned ? Given the likely increase in sea level, and increase in severe storms with associated storm surges many low lying areas are going to become increasingly unviable over the next few decades.

I don't see how you can realistically rehabilitate and rebuild a city that has been swimming in 10 feet of extremely polluted sea water for days - given that all the petrol stations and cars, and household and industrial chemicals will have been leaking into the water, as well as the sewage etc.
And what effect is all that polluted water going to have on the local environment.

Given that NO is so low lying it does not seem likely that it will be cost effective or realistic to try and rebuild.

It is just such a shock to our modern outlook, but through history towns have been abandoned following natural disaster.

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throckenholt · 01/09/2005 08:01

I agree also that most of those who didn't leave were probably of the opinion that they had been through hurricanes before and would do so again. Very sad given that the predictions were very clear that this was going to be one of the worst storms for a very long time, in one of the worst hurricane seasons on record.

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suedonim · 01/09/2005 14:53

What I've found extraordinary is that the authorities didn't evacuate the hospitals! You'd have though they would have been given No1 priority.

I'm currently reading a book called Isaac's Storm about the 'drowning of Galveston' in Texas by a hurricane in 1900. 10,000 people died.

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Janh · 01/09/2005 14:58

It's what alux said, though - they believed the levees would hold and it was only the hurricane itself they had to worry about. After the hurrican had passed and things seemed OK many of the people who had evacuated to distant hotels started heading home - now they have no home and no hotel either.

And now rescue services are being shot at BBC news

How much worse can things get?

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jabberwocky · 01/09/2005 15:05

And what's really sad is that some of it could possibly been avoided according to this

"According to the mayor, Black Hawk helicopters were scheduled to pick up and drop massive 3,000-pound sandbags in the 17th Street Canal breach, but were diverted on rescue missions. Nagin said neglecting to fix the problem has set the city behind by at least a month."

If most of our helicopters and military hadn't been fighting Bush's stupid war in Iraq, things may have come out a lot differently

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expatinscotland · 01/09/2005 15:06

K, folks. I'm from Houston, the closest city to Galveston. My sister and her family now live in Galveston County. There's really no comparison between Katrina and the 1900 storm. For one, there was no such thing as satellites, no seawall on Galveston Island (there is now, but even that would not stop the force of a water from a Category 5 hurricane), no causeway between Galveston Island and the mainland, etc.

The only indication they had that a storm was coming in 1900 were reports from people who'd been out in 'The Gulf' - as the Gulf of Mexico is known.

And the vast majority of people chose to ignore such warnings, as gambling used to be legal in Galveston and it was the high tourist season.

Ever try to coordinate an evacuation of half a million people in 2 days? And that's just New Orleans.

There is NO public transport to speak of in New Orleans - or Houston, for that matter, where thousands of people have been evacuated.

Despite all the technology we have to hand, storms can change course. Quickly. Katrina, moving at 12mph - astonishing given how long and wide she was - hit the eastern side of New Orleans, rather than hitting the city directly. Unfortunately, the eastern side is where Lake Pontchartrain, which is actually a bay and not a lake, sits, then she made to the East, hitting Mississippi. It was impossible to predict her exact course.

Hurricanes also claim back shoreline. When a Category 3 hurricane, Alicia, hit Galveston Island in 1983, the coastline receded by 2 entire inches.

I think authorities did the best they could considering the circumstances.

I'm truly astonished at how long New Orleans has actually been standing considering its incredibly precarious location.

Not saying it isn't sad or tragic, but I don't think there's a team of engineers alive who could defend a city sitting below sea level - in some places by several meters - could be defended entirely against such a force of nature.

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babyonboard · 01/09/2005 15:38

It can happen anywhere..the fact that they have the money and the knowledge doesnt alwayds help..
at least they have the moeny to help with recovery..
i personally won't be donating to this cause..sad as it is, america doesn't need it,

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babyonboard · 01/09/2005 15:45

"A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water, killing thousands. ...only massive reengineering of southeastern Louisiana can save the city. Mark Fischetti October 2001"

then Bush cuts hurricane funding...

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suedonim · 01/09/2005 15:52

I wasn't comparing Galveston with NO, Expatinscotland, I was just saying what I'd been reading! I know they didn't have satellites etc back then. But both storms are alike in that they're examples of the force of nature, is all.

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expatinscotland · 01/09/2005 15:55

OMG, I can't believe I just read that!

WHY does everyone have this idea that America's streets are paved with gold?

The gap between rich and poor is . . . well, not as bad as here, but close. The apple certainly didn't fall too far from the tree in that respect.

What's with all the finger-pointing?

Why does everyone always assume when something goes wrong in America they somehow deserve it? Or that's it's somehow always the President's fault (no I'm NOT a Bush supporter).

I didn't like living there. I don't fit in w/most Americans. But it seems to me like there's a general perception the place just can't do anything right. They help out, it's either never enough or they're being meddlesome and interfering and trying to impose their values on everyone. It seems like people are more than glad to accept their aid money, but then throw it back in their faces.

Oh, there's a terrible natural disaster, but those people don't deserve any help.

Dang.

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babyonboard · 01/09/2005 15:57

Thats not what I was implying..it's just that the american government, and those with the wealth in the u.s have a lot more to give than any other country.
they should help themselves
their policy had always been 'us' and 'them' so why should things change now.
i would much rather give to people whose government can't even help them out
that is all..

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expatinscotland · 01/09/2005 16:00

Yeah, that's what everyone thinks. America has a lot to give. Stingy America.

I'd hate to think what the map would look like if indeed their policy has 'always' been 'us' v. 'them', b/c that's just patently untrue.

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