What do you think of this? Teenager gets suspended sentence and has to sign the sex offenders register after having sex with a 12yo who told him she was 16....

(691 Posts)
RealityKicksArse Wed 28-Jul-10 11:43:50

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RealityKicksArse Wed 28-Jul-10 11:44:26

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I was just reading this.

I feel for the lad - he was told she was 16, all information on FB pointed to her being 16, the judge admitted hse could pass for 16 and AFAICS the sex was consensual between 2 people who were telling each other they were over the legal age to have sex.

What more evidence did he need? Do young men have to ask to see a birth certificate now?

And why hasn't she been punished for lying?

I think (very rusty knowledge here) that the issue is that she was 12. IIRC if the under-age party is 13-15 and the other party reasonably believes that he/she is 16 then that's a defence, but if the under-age party is under 13 then having sex with them is a strict liability offence (under a different section of the Sexual Offences Act) with no mens rea requirement.

But I may be misremembering.

RealityKicksArse Wed 28-Jul-10 11:51:56

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ladysybil Wed 28-Jul-10 11:55:40

youre correct. the issue is that she was 12.

I really feel for this boy. His entire life is in ruins. he wont be able to get far with law anymore. from both the artices ive read, she wasnt groomed, and there was no coercion. she willingly had sex with him. he thought she was 16. he bought her an adult ticket. true, he wasnt particularly clever or smart abou tit, but he will be paying for this for the rest of his life.

RealityKicksArse Wed 28-Jul-10 11:57:29

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PrivetDancer Wed 28-Jul-10 11:57:59

Seems devastatingly unfair on him. She was being deceitful if she was lying on her facebook page to back up her story, so I don't really see how he was expected to know she was younger than she said.
I doubt she meant for this to happen either (ie him getting in trouble for it).
A shitty outcome all round really.

i have no idea but is it really possible for a 12 yo to pass for 16, in looks, maturity or manner?

Chil1234 Wed 28-Jul-10 11:59:43

She hasn't been punished for lying because the law says that, as a 12 year-old, she wasn't capable of consenting to sex under any circumstances. The reason for the cut-off of 16 is to protect children - even if they look older than they are, lie their heads off or are even wantonly promiscuous.

Yes, the man should have taken more precautions to establish her age. The onus is always on the adult, not the child to behave responsibly. It's a cautionary tale.

TheCrackFox Wed 28-Jul-10 12:01:17

She might have looked 16yrs but she probably came across as 12yrs. Some men (he was 18yrs) see what they want to see.

not sure what to think...where were her p
arents in all this??

scaryteacher Wed 28-Jul-10 12:01:40

Yes it is Stealth - some of the girls in ds's tutor group in Year 8 could have passed for Year 13 in physical development, height, and in how they were dressed and made up.

You should see them now as they approach Year 10; I think jailbait was the term in my day.

ladysybil Wed 28-Jul-10 12:02:24

reality, the fact is that he did have sex with a 12 year old, which is why he was prosecuted. but that doesnt mean that he is the villain of the story. the idiot certainly, but not the villain who was grooming a child.

intention has a lot to do with british justice, something i have been told over and over again by mumsnetters with legal knowhow. hence the difference between manslaughter and murder.

i would quite like to see the parents prosecuted or at least cautioned for allowing the 12 year old onto a website that is meant for over 13's.

really scaryteacher, so if you spoke to them for a while you would genuinely think they were 16 rather than 12? Can udnerstand looks etc, but in manner and maturity of thought, iyswim.

rubbersoul Wed 28-Jul-10 12:04:20

I have worked with a few 12 year old girls who could pass for much older. I've seen teenagers outside of school that I swear could pass for at least 5 years older confused

ladysybil Wed 28-Jul-10 12:04:54

yes, when i was teaching, a fair fraction of the girls in year 8 looked and acted much much older.

Quite a few 16 year olds don't display immense maturity of thought.

ladysybil Wed 28-Jul-10 12:06:19

i really dont know why i am getting so involved in this discussion. i should back away.
but
the two didnt have much conversation did they? all they wanted from each other was sex. even the so called 'date' was to the cinema, hardly an excercise in conversation.

PrivetDancer Wed 28-Jul-10 12:06:46

Perhaps he's not the sharpest tool in the box though, i mean if he's meeting people by random friend requests then he's obviously a bit desperate.

Agree with idiot rather than villain.

true
That's really interesting, I have always thought it was just me who could never tell how old children are - seems like it's most people, including teachers!
In that case I'd go for idiot, but as the judeg pointed out, it has to be classified as rape.
How can a 12yo go off to the cinema with an 18yo though, and have sex with him without her parents knowing. I'd class that as neglect.

msrisotto Wed 28-Jul-10 12:09:09

This kind of rape should always be prosecuted. Otherwise it sends the message that having sex with underage children is acceptable.

rubbersoul Wed 28-Jul-10 12:09:52

StealthPolarBear, I have taught some 12 year old girls that come across as MUCH older in terms of maturity and manner. Many hang around with older teenagers anyway or have older siblings that may have had an influence on them- some are very streetwise and I have been shocked on many occassions!

Mollydoggerson Wed 28-Jul-10 12:12:48

he was only a child himself when it happened. very unfair.

LtEveDallas Wed 28-Jul-10 12:13:11

After reading the first link I feel for the boy, but after reading the second I feel he got what he deserved confused

Really confusing and hard to judge because the stories seem soooooo different.

(as an aside, I was a member of an over 18s nightclub when I was 13 - got a membership card with a photocopied and doctored birth certificate and went every weekend - to any guy in the club I would have been 'fair game' but in reality they would have been breaking the law. I would be horrified now if DSD did the same - and really feel for young lads in this day and age where it is the norm for 12/13/14 yr olds to dress and act much older)

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