No time for school?

[emmaagain]

Here's a rough guesstimate. Disclaimer: it's very rough.

5 year old child (for argument's sake) in every 24 hours might spend:

11 hours sleeping
1 hour eating supper, having bath, getting undressed and ready for bed
45 minutes getting up, dressed, eating breakfast, getting school bag ready etc.
6.5 hours at school
1 hour travelling to or from school
15 minutes doing homework

which leaves an estimate of 3.5 hours free at home on a weekday.

This assumes that the parental work schedule fits around taking them to school at school starting time, and bringing them home as soon as the school day ends - no after-school clubs in this scenario.

This also assumes that the child engages in no activities outside school and never has a friend round for tea.

My timings haven't allowed for time while Mum Makes Supper (half an hour preparation time?) which means that the free playtime with the potential of playing with Mum is down to 3 hours a day.

And if this hypothetical 5 year old is a 12-hours-a-night sleeper, then we are down to 2 hours a day of free playtime with possible parental involvement.

No need to quibble with the figures, which of course are not accurate for any family, but it's an illustration of why some HEing families just can't understand how mainstream families have time to do the whole school lifestyle thing.

[Blandmum]

Weekends, 6 weeks in the summer, 3 half terms of a week each, two weeks at easter and xmas.

And don't forget that they are only activly being taught in lessons for about 4.5 hours of the time in school, the rest will often be spent interacting and free playing with their friends.

And obviously as the child grows older they spend less time sleeping.

[discoverlife]

I wish people would stop banging their school drum in the HE section.

[Blandmum]

I wasn't, DL, I was explaining why people who school ed feel they can fit in family life.

Different families make different choices

[emmaagain]

Let me make my point more succinctly for your comments, MB

By my estimate, on a school day, a 5-year old child has 3.5 hours a day or less for completely free play within or stemming from the home environment. I'm excluding school playtimes from my model for all sorts of reasons, including freedom of assocation and freedom of movement (I'm assuming that the choice on any particular day of being inside or outside at playtime is still not routinely offered to children in schools, but correct me if I am wrong - I base this on comments I've read in other Mumsnet threads)

This 3.5 hours doesn't seem enough for my family, and long holidays don't compensate us for the time limitation. As I said, I just don't see how we could fit it in.

[FloraPosteschild]

Hiya, just seen this after reading my other thread
3.5 hours seems like a long time for me. I can't imagine playing with Ds for that long every day - I mean actively playing.
Talking, teaching, etc - yes. But it still seems like a big amount.
I will break down our usual day and see where that takes us:

Wake at 5 or 6 (usually 6 now at school f/t)
Muck about watching TV/eating/dressing until 8.30 - much of this time is us waking up slowly, not interacting too much.

8.30 drive to school, 9 return home.
3.30ish pick up from school.
Ds shrieks and shouts in back seat. Home about 4. Ds falls asleep on sofa - sometimes within 5 minutes, sometimes about 6pm.
He does not talk to me in this time. He gets cross and watches TV, refusing to answer any questions about school.
7pm/9pm I carry him up to bed.

He does not even usually eat during this time. He has a bottle of milk.

I am aware this may change as he grows older and gets some stamina. However I currently feel a sense of loss and grief and writing this little timetable makes me see why!

[emmaagain]

That's it. The timetable is a real clincher for me. "loss and grief" indeed.

I don't even mean that a parent should be actively playing with their child all this time, I'm just thinking that some little children might be getting too little free play in their own safe space on a day-in, day-out basis

[Blandmum]

'This 3.5 hours doesn't seem enough for my family, and long holidays don't compensate us for the time limitation. As I said, I just don't see how we could fit it in'

Then that is fine, and I'm glad that you have made a choice that suits your family.

We also play games in the car etc. They kids often help with making tea etc. One assumes that part of a HE day will sometimes be taken in the car going to HE get togethers etc. The time taken to get dressed and have breakfast, and make tea will tend to be the same for both types of family.

[FloraPosteschild]

Sometimes after school he will wander around the living room saying 'I'm bored' when he is obviously totally exhausted. He gets in that falling over tired state.
For some reason I find it hard to play with him during that stage - perhaps that is just me, maybe I am unable to let my defences down as he seems so separate from me and I am afraid I do not know him any more, because he has been gone all day.

I almost feel angry that other people have taken him away.

I never thought about it like that before. If I was more at ease with the whole thing I reckon I would be able to take advantage of those couple of hours more - but no, he IS really exhausted by that time, he IS silly and cross, he is very very snappy and sensitive. It is hard to be with him.

I feel like school has stolen him. I just get to pick up the pieces.

Is this me? I can't work it out. I need to see him in situ and suss whether he is happy there. If he is I guess it's time to let go.

Where is that big bar of fruit and nut, I really need it right now...

[LynetteScavo]

Flora, your post has made me

It does make me cross that while people choose to school educate their children (like myself) their chldren are essentially taken away from the for the majority of the day when they may only have just turned 4.

While a 6 hour school day is fine for DS1 now he is nine, it jolly well wasn't when he was 5. I felt the government were taking my baby away from me.

[LynetteScavo]

Flora, X-posted with your 2nd post!

[juuule]

It's not just you, Floraposteschild. It's much the same way that I've felt as each of mine started school. I always felt that we had to make as best of it as we could and everybody else was okay (or seemed to be) and wasn't that just the way things were.

[FloraPosteschild]

LS {{}}
Thankyou for understanding. When did you get used to it? Do you think there was a time when you would have felt it was 'the right age'?
I could always bung him in later I guess.

I am amazed that so many people do just accept this, I miss him like I never expected. It seems so wrong - and this is a mum who has always thought of herself as really impatient with her kids!! I don't want him gone so much.

[FloraPosteschild]

Juule - are yours all at school now? Sorry I can't remember. I do know you have a lot!!

[Hulababy]

I fit in school life through 16 weeks worth of school holidays (I get 12 week's holidays and work PT so always have 2 days a week off at least), and weekends - which w almost always spend as a family.

[QueenMeabhOfConnaught]

Gosh, when my ds was 5 our routine was more like:

6am - wake up and chat to mummy whilst eating breakfast.
6.30am-8am - chat some more to mummy or play with toys.
8am - start getting dressed with mummy's help whilst chatting to her or veering off suddenly to do a puzzle.
8.40am-8.50am - walk to school whilst chatting to mummy.
9am-3.15pm - School.
3.15pm-5.30pm - at home (chatting, playing etc). He had no homework at that age.
5.30pm-6pm - eat dinner.
6pm-7.30pm - chill out with mummy (chatting, usually).

At 5 I did not allow him to have any after school activities as I felt he was too young (and he would have objected to any interference in his chatting time).

At that age school was almost a minor part of his day!!!!

[colditz]

I don't think the average 5 year old needs more than 2 hours a day solid parental attention and playing.

If you don't want to send your children to school, then don't, but that's your choice - other people make the choice they consider best for their children. I personally don't think it is my child's job to make me feel useful - which would be the only purpose for ME to keep MY CHILD away from his beloved 'Big School'.

[posieflump]

discoverlife - correct me if I'm wrong the OP was asking how we have time to put our kids into school in the home edding section
so it seems obvious that non home edders would reply
some non home edders are going to favour school so it seems obvious that on this thread some people would 'bang their school drum'

[juuule]

No, I have 3 over 16y. One at secondary and one at primary. The other 4 are home-ed but 3 of them did attend school for a few years.
So, for the 8 that did start school I've felt that sense of loss with each one.
Lynette I agree with you that they are taken away too young.

[FloraPosteschild]

QueenMeabh. I am

How did you do it! I must have been giving mine too many fruitshoots or something

Which of them is normal?

[Blandmum]

TBH, 'banging the school drum' would be stating the benefits of formal schooling, which no-one has done.

I didn't realise that we were not allowed to disagree on a point.

Imagine the riot that would ensue if someone posed,

'i can't imagine how people have the time to go out to paid work, I don't have the time to do the whole paid work thing'

and then expected the WOTH mothers not to disagree...

[colditz]

I wish people would stop trying to passive-aggressively censor my posts, but there we go - if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

I will 'bang the school drum'. I am allowed an opinion as much as anyone else. I am as entitled to voice it here as in chat. Telling people that you wish they would stop talking about school is like sticking your head in the sand and pretending you have the only opinion and everyone agrees with it.

[Blandmum]

To a degree Flora, I think that children take their own time getting into the synch of school. Some do it fast, some slow, and some parents opt out.

My two settled down after a short time of adjustment, dd was faster than ds.

All children will differ, I think

[posieflump]

agree with everything mb has said

[FloraPosteschild]

I welcome your posts, MB

HE covers a minority which is perhaps why some are defensive. I think.

[juuule]

I don't have the time to go out to do paid work MB.