Uncomfortable with 'select' group meet-ups

[tinfoilhat]

We have been HEing for about a year, from when oldest DC was due to start school. Joined local on-line and FB groups to get involved and met lots of fantastic families. One family was very kind from the offset and invited us to a monthly meet at their house, at which another 6-8 families attend. These meet-ups are brilliant fun, lots for the children to do and each family really gets involved - it's all that I hoped HE would be about. This family also arrange other occasional activities but I've realised in the past few months that they are fairly 'exclusive' with the same select families attending. One particular activity was messaged to us actually asking us to keep it under our hats! I feel very uncomfortable with this, but I'm not sure whether I've got the wrong end of the stick. I messaged her about this activity and said it sounded so wonderful, was she thinking of posting it to the main county page so more children could enjoy it and she replied that she wanted to keep the numbers small as it was the first time this 'venue' had done something for HE families and she wanted it to go well. When we first went along there were only a handful of children there when this would normally be something a whole class would attend!

The Mum is very enthusiastic and great fun and it might just be that she just wants to involve known and trusted families only. I can understand that. But then I can't shake this feeling that the situation just isn't 'right'.
Should I just enjoy going to these events and ignore wherever might/might not be a hidden agenda? Or should I distance myself because it doesn't feel morally right - all HE children deserve to know about any activities going on, surely?

Or are these sorts of cliques considered fairly normal to HE life?

Needless to say my children always enjoy going to whatever this family has set up, or I obviously wouldn't be in a dilemma about whether to continue or not!

Sorry if this seems rather trivial, but I feel very strongly about HE families being a community and committed to helping each other when we can. Thanks for any advice you can give.

[streakybacon]

I understand where the mum is coming from. Organising HE activities can be awkward because every family works in a different way, and if you're using a public venue you do need to have a group that consists of like-minded people who will accept the rules of that venue. It might seem obvious but I've been to a lot of activities that turned out to be chaotic because everyone wanted to do the thing differently, and there wasn't much respect for facilitators. A lot of places don't like HE groups for this reason (IME), so it's understandable that this mum wants to give a good impression by offering the first visit to families she can trust, so that the venue's opinions about HE are positive - then perhaps other groups will be welcome too.

As for social gatherings, I tend to look on those in the same way as I would in more general terms. If I arrange to have some friends over to my house it's not a free for all and I wouldn't post to a wider group and say "Everyone welcome". It would be a select gathering for personal friends, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. In HE I've found that there are some events that are open to all comers and others are for smaller groups of people who know each other well, have similar interests, and their children are similar too. That makes sense, I think, to have more personal interactions than you'd have in a wider, more public group. We just pick and choose which ones fit us and don't bother with the rest.

I've often found that the more 'disruptive' families are those who don't trouble themselves to organise activities and meet-ups themselves, but expect other people to do it for the whole HE network. They also seem to have high expectations, often unrealistic, about what the activity will involve - frequently it's about meeting their own specific needs without regard for the group as a whole. We all have to give and take a little to oil the social wheels but for some this goes against their autonomous, no-rules HE ethic. Obviously I'm talking extremes here but these people do exist and I've met quite a few, and it's this type I expect the mum you're talking about has in mind when she wants to keep her arrangements small and select.

[streakybacon]

Just to add ...

When I first started home educating I used to organise loads of activities, theatre trips, meet-ups etc - some formal and some informal, and it was awful! It was a nightmare trying to organise people, dates etc and getting money from people in advance (eg for theatre tickets) was almost impossible. Folk would commit to come to workshops, knowing that spaces were limited and I had a waiting list, then just not turn up - no explanation or anything. Often we'd have much smaller groups than we'd booked for, and that reflected badly not only on home educators generally but on me personally as the organiser.

I found that a lot of people refused to think for themselves. Even when I'd given huge amounts of detail about an event, I'd be swamped with enquiries for how to get there, where's the nearest car park, is there somewhere to eat nearby ... All things they could easily have looked up themselves. It often became a much bigger responsibility than I'd planned for, and very time-consuming and inconvenient.

Needless to say, after the first couple of years I stopped organising wider group events and stuck with arranging things for smaller groups of people I knew well, and crucially those I could rely on to stick to commitments once they'd agreed to them. So if this mother has been HEing for some time, she's probably had similar experiences and if so it's no wonder she prefers not to organise things for the whole network.

[Fishlegs]

Where we live things tend to be advertised on the city wide group, things can be chaotic occasionally but it doesn't feel cliquey and I think most people feel welcome.

However we had a temporary stay in another city and although people were very friendly, the setup sounds similar to yours, there seemed to be more politics than I had previously experienced, and there were a few serious fallouts whilst we were there.

It made me feel deeply uncomfortable, and looking at it from a purely selfish pov, if you are suddenly deemed to be not one of the chosen few, your dc may be deprived of the friends they have made at these groups. Personally I would attend one or two of the groups this lady is organising, but also I would make sure that we attended other ones and that my dc had other friends outside those groups.

[streakybacon]

Perhaps an obvious solution would be to organise some events yourself, then you can choose whether you want to invite everyone or just a select few.

[QuintessentiallyQS]

I have no experience with HE, so look at the social angle of organizing events.

If I took the trouble of organizing events, I would want to chose the right mix of people, and keep the numbers small to ensure we all enjoyed it. If I invite people to my home, I would be mad to make an open house free for all party! Who does that?

Why do you think it is her role to involve everybody in the county and organize events for all?

If you wanted large groups and a big mix of various people of different interests and needs, why not just send your kids to school?


So, I think you either need to stick to the rules she set and not make it awkward for her, or leave the small group (which sounds fantastic) and start arranging your own activities and hope to get a "group following" yourself.

[QuintessentiallyQS]

I should add, I reckon you will soon enough find yourself no longer part of the small select group anyway if you start questioning this, and she finds you the lone voice of discord, or she cottons on to you not liking how she does things.

[tinfoilhat]

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

I understand and agree completely with what you've said. I've organised activities too and it can be an absolute nightmare, for all the reasons you mentioned and more!
I of course totally understand where she's coming from in terms of when the venue is her house - it's extremely kind of her to host us. I guess it was this particular event where we were actually told to keep it a secret that made me really uncomfortable. It just seemed so unfair to others. Excluding families from an exciting opportunity when they just don't happen to be 'in' with this crowd seemed far too similar to school gate politics to me - not something I thought I'd witness in HE life. But I accept that I am most likely looking at this from the wrong perspective and should see it more for the reasons you provided. As I suspected, I had the wrong end of the stick about it.

Thank you again.

[tinfoilhat]

Sorry, only Streakybacpn had relplied when I'd written my post.

Thank you to Fishlegs and QQS for your response.

I of course in no way mean that anyone should ask everyone in the county to an event in their own home! A select group is entirely right and should not be any other way in that scenario. It was just the event in a well-known public venue that I felt uncomfortable about. It was just this one event that I spoke to her about, not anything else.

As I said, I organise activities too so I know what a nightmare it can be.

[streakybacon]

One thing I've learned is that 'school gate politics' isn't just about the school gate - it's about people, and it's applicable across the board, everywhere. HE is no different to school in that respect, especially in social situations. People are weird - just when you think they can't get any weirder, they surprise you by taking weirdness to new extremes .

[goingloombandcrazy]

Having seen the same home ed activities organised by the same people and the same daft "why don't you just Google it" questions asked by the same lazy people who moan about everything but never organise anything I can understand why some educators are now sticking to inviting only a few.

The dynamics of the children can also be a factor. Too many children literally running wild, scaring some children or refusing to participate and taking up a place of a child who would of. Not the best example of home educating either!

[tinfoilhat]

You're right, people just being people! I'm realising this lately Streaky.

Please understand, I'm not being ungrateful to her - she really is great fun and I appreciate the time and effort she puts in and I have told her so, frequently. I understand how frustrating it can be to organise, I do it myself regularly so I know totally what you all mean about the pitfalls of it.

I'm learning about HE life still too, which is why I wanted to question whether I was looking at the situation the wrong way. Whether it was just organisational logistics or social exclusion. And yes, I can see from your points of view that it is just about organisational logistics.

[maggi]

The group I belong to have been accused of being cliquey at times. The people who organize most things have junior age children and they were accused of not organizing for infant/preschoolers. My response to them was 'why don't you organize something?' As a part of the group you are committed to organizing 2 events a year, but it's always the same people who have to provide for the entire group. I too am guilty of partaking of the events and not organizing much (my excuse is I'm one of the rare HE parents who manages to work full time too, at least I think I'm rare).
Recently there was a virtual civil war because a weekly meet was arranged for the teenagers. There was a logical reason behind it and it was just one event among the myriad of other regular weekly events, yet parents of little ones were insensed at being excluded.
We are lucky that whilst we really, really enjoy the group, we don't need to rely on it for education or socialization. I tend to wait until the dust has settled. But if I ever I wish that there was a different outcome, I remind myself that I could organize my own group.

[tinfoilhat]

The phrase "you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time" comes to mind!

We are lucky too that we mix with all sorts of groups and whatever I organise is open to whoever is interested.

[cyclecamper]

When I've met up with the HE groups when my sister has organised outings, there have always been people we were waiting for who didn't show up as well as people who turned up at 11.30 for a booked thing that started at 10, so I can definitely sympathise with organisers doing new events with a reliable core group and avoiding spending the whole of the trip on the phone to the disorganised!

[Crusoe]

Your post really resonated me. We are fairly new to home ed and I just don't seem to be able to break into the home ed community, it is so full of cliques. We have been to a few events but I have really been made to feel like an outsider especially as I have a child who sometimes displays challenging behaviour .
I foolishly promised my son we would make lots of lovely new friends but despite my best efforts it doesn't seem to be working out that way.

[ommmward]

It takes time, it really does. Often the other people are relatively new to whatever group it is, so they are clinging on for dear life to the few people there that they know. There's a group we've been going to regularly for just a couple of months, and actually, I'm already often the person who goes up to people and says "hello" and "are you new, or have we just not coincided before?" and start to make friendly conversation - it really only takes you being confident enough to go up to someone else who isn't deep in conversation with another parent, or else to say "mind if I join in?" if they are already in a conversation. And if you are too busy running interference for your child making sure it is going smoothly for him, that truly is fine too - there are enough HE parents who have children with special needs for everyone to be perfectly accustomed to The Mum Who Never Gets To Talk To The Other Adults (and, after a week or two, you'll start to spot the other mums in the same boat, and chat with them gently as you pass your children pieces of lego, or whatever it is).

[Swanhildapirouetting]

This is such an interesting thread. I've just started home edding my 12 year old and also felt vaguely aware that there were cliques. But in a way that is just another way of saying friendship groups. After years of school politics I decided from the outset I was just going to be brazen and invite people around or ask any searching questions I could about smaller organised functions. It helps to just have one home edding friend, which I do, although I am already aware that I don't want to just tag along on her coat tails or rely on her for everything. I've already found an Art class which has only a few children (recommended by my kind friend)

I do feel I have had to be like a waggy dog though with the people I don't know, when what I really feel like saying is...please please include me in anything..because ds2 is desperate to meet people his own age and it is not about me anymore

[Scout19075]

I can't believe mums of littles would get cross at being "excluded" at events aimed at teens. Well, no, that's not right. I can believe it but I just can't believe that mums wouldn't think about the developmental differences between, say, a four year old and a ten year old! I'd never dream of barging and demanding a place in an activity aimed at teenager! I have been cheeky, though, and asked if SmallBoy could be included in a monthly activity aimed at 5-7 year olds when he wouldn't turn five until two weeks after the first meet-up. I did, however, say, I understood if they wanted Yr1 aged five year olds not YrR aged five year olds and I wouldn't be upset if the answer was "no." The answer was "yes, of course it's fine!" and SB loved the activity and can't wait for the next time. But I would never have dreamed of being entitled to a space!

It is very hard organizing activities. Sometimes I feel like I spend more time doing that than I do spending time with SmallBoy. I also find it hard to run activities and help everyone when, in reality, I want to (or need to!) help SB and he gets pushed aside a bit while I'm trying to help/direct other children/parents. This is why, for now, I stick to planning all-age socials at soft play, the park, etc., it's just easier (for me) at the moment.

[TinkerLula]

yes home ed is full of cliques!!! There are closed groups, which to begin with I did not like or agree with, but as time has gone on I have come to understand why people do it and eventually we joined a closed group ourselves.
I am part of a small co-op and it is closed and secret! But it has meant that my kids have a lovely small group that they see every week, or twice a week. It is relaxed and we can be at each others houses. More people would mean we would have to hire a space. I also like the fact that my kids have this stability and consistency. As its a small group we decide together what to do & it works and we are all committed. I got so fed up with all the big groups open to all where people came and then didn't come, or the group kept changing venues. My kids are not great with change. And I have organised stuff and opened it to all and its been an huge pain.
Having said that we still go to bigger meet ups which are open to all because I feel its good for the kids to have opportunities to meet a range of kids.

[Liara]

I'm part of an 'open' home ed group, but there are a core few families who often organise things outside the main group.

The reason is that we have been doing it longer than most of the others, and are used to our disorganised, fumbling approach to setting things up, where everyone takes on a bit of the organisation, the coming up with ideas, etc.

There are some people in the wider group who seem to treat it as a (free!) service - they expect everything to be sorted for them, down to the last detail and complain if there is anything they have to figure out for themselves. And sometimes we just can't be arsed! Others take the piss, expecting to be ferried to and fro from activities, have tickets procured for them at discounted/free rates, you name it. So there are times when we don't really want those people there, and if they were told about it they would start demanding that someone else do all the work, so they aren't.