Elizabeth Woodville and Maragret Beufort

(13 Posts)
SaggyOldClothCatPuss Thu 15-Aug-13 01:49:20

I've always seen Anne as a bit tragic.
I quite like Elizabeth but have NEVER warmed to Margaret.

littlemissnormal Thu 18-Jul-13 22:13:56

Sunne in Splendour I totally loved, didn't want it to end!

greenhill Thu 18-Jul-13 17:32:19

Have you read The Sunne in Splendour? Elizabeth Woodville doesn't come out of it well, as Anne Neville is the tragic queen in it. It is a great read though.

carlajean Thu 18-Jul-13 17:13:38

Totally agree with you by the way ragwort.

carlajean Thu 18-Jul-13 17:12:24

I hear what you say, but I just think you can never use the word 'must have' in connection with history. Perhaps Anne Neville had an alternative dress, perhaps she was short of funds.

littlemissnormal Thu 18-Jul-13 13:54:35

I think that's the beauty of history though! That you never know for sure so can form your own opinions and thoughts on things.
If you saw the program on BBC2 a while ago about Anne Boleyn, you can see how other historians such as David Starkey and Alison Weir disagree with Philippa Gregory's opinions.
Certain things can be surmised on various facts though. The one I found interesting recently was that Anne Neville never ordered a dress to be made for the coronation of Edward V so must have known something had happened to the Princes in the Tower.

Ragwort Thu 18-Jul-13 13:03:52

I agree with you carlajean - I find it interesting and enjoy watching the 'White Queen' and last night's documentary but we can't really know how these women felt and we can't really put our views/morals onto how they led their lives as it was totally different times. I mean, it is horrifying (to us) that a 13 year old had a child - but was this generally the 'norm' at this time. Also life expectancy was much, much shorter so perhaps this should be taken into account as well?

carlajean Thu 18-Jul-13 13:00:06

Does anybody really feel that they can know what any of these people were like? I watched the program about this last night and it drove me nuts when P. Gregory kept on saying 'they must'have felt this or that. From a distance of centuries, we have no idea at all.

littlemissnormal Wed 10-Jul-13 22:23:53

Saltire, which other books have you got to read?
I've just finished Blood Sisters by Sarah Gristwood which is very factual and covers both those ladies as well as Anne Neville and Margaret of Anjou.

I think you have to look less at Elizabeth and more at her relatives. I don't think she was any kind of innocent shrinking violet but her relatives lost no time in exploiting the position. As with a lot of medieval women she was powerless but very influential at the same time, she was also probably a bit naive in what her relative were doing towards the end.

As for the flight to Westminster, she had no choice really and in brokering the pact with Margaret for Elizabeth's marriage, she would only have done that had she believed her sons were dead - a dreadful situation for any mother, but still opportunist in my opinion and probably the only way of saving her other children.

Margaret Beaufort - the original tiger mother?

Saltire Wed 05-Jun-13 19:12:08

Yes she is often portrayed badly.
Phillipa Gregory has a new book out in the series called The White Princess.

i think Margaret comes across (both in fiction and non fiction) as very pushy, but I wonder if this is becasue of the circumstances around her,a dn she sees the opportunity to make her son King

Portofino Wed 05-Jun-13 18:59:25

I am just reading the Kingmakers Daughter which paints Elizabeth in a bad light, but as I recall the white queen made her sound more likeable.

Saltire Wed 05-Jun-13 18:55:34

I got the White Queen and The Red Queen as presents from MIL. They encouraged me to go out and buy some non fiction about both ladies.
I am interested to know what others think?
I actually quite like Elizabeth, and her whole story of how she maried for love and her going into sanctuary in Westminster Abbey etc.
However I seem to have developed a dislike of Maraget but not entirely sure why

although i have bought about 5 books of both womena nd working my way through then

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