Guest blog: "The Bank of Mum and Dad can't solve this housing crisis"

(77 Posts)
KateMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 25-Jul-13 13:36:53

This week, the housing charity Shelter published new research which shows that parents pay out a staggering £2 billion each year to help their children into a home of their own.

Here, Shelter's Chief Executive Campbell Robb argues that unless something changes, our children will face a huge struggle to get a stable and affordable place to live.

Are you worried about how your children will be able to afford a home of their own? Let us know what you think here on the thread - and if you blog about it, don't forget to post your URL.

"As a parent I know that doing the best for your kids is always the number one priority. But while you can offer endless amounts of love and support, these days financial support from 'The Bank of Mum and Dad' is becoming almost as important if we want to see them get on in life.

This is increasingly true when it comes to where they'll live when they grow up, and have families of their own. Things have changed massively since I was a young adult. We were able to buy our first home in our 20s, with a deposit of just £4,000. Now, the average deposit is seven times that amount, while house prices have risen so fast over the past 40 years that buying a chicken would cost £51 today if food prices had gone up at the same rate. Saving for a deposit on a first home can take up to three decades in some parts of the country. And at Shelter, I hear first-hand from young people who say that no matter how hard they work or save, they're still priced out.

The knock-on effect of this is that more and more young couples have no choice but to bring up their children in unstable rented housing or put off having kids altogether while they try and save up. Alternatively, they're living at home until their 30s - unable to move out and live independent lives. I'm really worried that unless something changes, the housing situation my daughters will face will be even worse.

None of us wants this for our children, so it's not surprising that more parents are offering to help out. Our new research shows that the number of people relying on help from parents to raise a deposit is rising fast. And we're not talking about a few hundred or even a few thousand pounds: the average contribution was £17,000, which adds up to a staggering £2bn in cash being adding into the housing market each year by parents alone. I don't know about you, but on top of all the other costs parents face I find the prospect of raising that sort of money for even one of my children pretty eye-watering. With the squeeze on family budgets getting tighter, the reality is that the majority of parents simply can't afford it.

All this goes to show that relying on the Bank of Mum and Dad to get young people into a home of their own just isn't a sustainable solution to our housing crisis. If our kids are to even have a chance of a home of their own, the government has to start meeting people half way. This doesn't mean more schemes that help a handful of first time buyers - it means addressing the problem that's at the root of all this: our desperate shortage of housing. After all, this is what's driven house prices up and pushed homeownership further and further out of reach. Yet last year the Bank of Mum and Dad spent more on helping children with deposits than the government spent on building affordable homes.

We have to get a grip on this problem, and we have to do it now. More good quality affordable homes in every community is the only way to make sure our children can get a home of their own. What's more, it would ease pressure on the rental market and bring down housing costs for families at the sharp end of our housing crisis who are fighting a daily battle to keep a roof over their head. These are the people Shelter see's every day, and works hard to stop from becoming homeless. It's all interconnected ' more homes will ensure everyone in our society has a decent, affordable place to live.

The government must join parents now and start investing in our children's futures by building the homes we need."

You can find out more about Shelter's campaign - and use their work use their online calculator to work out how long it will take your children to save for a deposit - over here.

Caster8 Thu 25-Jul-13 14:55:36

Is it all because of the desperate shortage of housing? I am not sure, though I am not an expert.
Loads more houses are single occupancy than they used to be.
There are also a great many houses that are massively under occupied.
Not to mention second homes, that are not occpupied at all for the majority of the year.

I agree that I dont know how it is going to pan out. Uni costs, that is debt as far as I am concerned are going to make the whole issue a whole lot worse. And a lot of jobs that uni graduates want , are jobs that require people to move around the country and abroad, so having a mortgage isnt that great an idea anyway.

timidviper Thu 25-Jul-13 16:00:23

People living longer has changed the balance of things too. I am now in my 50s, by my age my parents and almost all of their friends had lost their parents.

This meant that the houses our grandparents had lived in were available for sale, rent or younger people in the family so there was no housing shortage. If there was any money inherited it boosted the economy as the age group inheriting were often 30s or 40s so were not at the stage where they had all they needed yet so they spent some or all of it.

My friends and I now almost all have one or both parents left who often still live in the family home. While we are all pleased to still have them this is a lot of housing not available to younger families so creating a shortage and pushing up prices. It also means, as older people tend to be more condervative with money, their savings are locked out of the economy so slowing things down.

I'm not complaining about any of this by the way! It just always strikes me that there are more factors than higher divorce rates, etc. Basically we have a finite number of houses and amount of money in the economy and everything is now stretching for more people.

Caster8 Thu 25-Jul-13 16:09:23

Good points timidviper.

I also meant to post that I dont think the hikes in how much houses cost have come about all by themselves, I think that as more households become two income, people wanted bigger, nicer houses. And were willing to spend more money on them. And quite frankly, had more income to borrow against.

Caster8 Thu 25-Jul-13 16:11:17

If we do have an economy crash, we as a country, will find we have far more houses than we "need".
See Ireland.

NatashaBee Thu 25-Jul-13 16:40:17

Very interesting blog. I've thought for a while that my generation is the make or break one for the housing issue in the UK - either the government has to put something in place to provide more affordable housing for people just starting out, or it will reach crisis point by the time my children look to move out. If people can't move into their own homes then they can't necessarily have children and that has a knock on effect of its' own.

The key worker loans and affordable housing projects currently available in the UK are really just a tiny drop in the ocean compared to what's required.

I live in the US at the moment and it's possible to get an FHA mortgage here which is backed by the government. This gives lenders more security when they lend, and they're willing to lend to people with lower credit scores and accept deposits as low as 3.5%. You also get tax breaks when you file your return, the year that you buy a property. Most people here don't struggle to buy a property of some kind even if they're not part of a high earning couple.

Caster8 Thu 25-Jul-13 17:51:25

But NatashaBee. .Even back only as far as the 60's, people were still having plenty of babies, while living with mum and dad!

Badvoc Thu 25-Jul-13 18:07:38

I think historically young couples did live with their parents or pils sometimes until they had young children of their own before they got on the housing ladder.
Back then, of course, houses were larger (unlike now) and there was room for them.
People are living longer, care home fees use up any inheritances and that has a knock on effect too.
There is still a lot of building going on (at least where I live) and it seems to be selling too....not sure how.
We have 3.5 years til our FR on our mortgage ends and god knows what IR will be then!
I hope to be working by then but it's worrying.

sillyoldfool Thu 25-Jul-13 20:16:40

We'll probably be in our 50s by the time we inherit anything from our parents, which as we are renting in a London suburb is realistically the only moment we'll have a chance to buy somewhere. We might then be able to buy somewhere small so that we don't have to try and pay a private rental in our retirement (if such a thing as retirement exists then)
We're then incredibly unlikely to have much to pass on to our children.
We'll never own a family house like my parents and grandparents did.

sillyoldfool Thu 25-Jul-13 20:18:24

And we both have always worked and are graduates and earn a decent wage, not a fortune here, but if we were in the north east say we'd be considered rich.

Caster8 Thu 25-Jul-13 20:40:49

Were houses larger? There were some, but more than enough 2 up 2 down ones, with lots of large families.

Badvoc Thu 25-Jul-13 20:42:24

I think so, yes.
Thatcher abolished the Parker Morris regulations regarding minimum house size.
And now we have a generation being brought up in shoeboxes.
And don't get me started on the lack of storage!

Corygal Thu 25-Jul-13 20:46:59

What happens when Mum&Dad don't pay up?

When your parents are poor, you're guaranteed a life renting. Social mobility? No chance for the British now.

amothersplaceisinthewrong Thu 25-Jul-13 21:10:34

As soon as I inherit, I am giving my kids (now early 20s) whatever I can for a deposit on a house.

Badvoc Thu 25-Jul-13 21:26:46

But how do you know you will inherit anything?
My parents have nothing to leave and pils money will all go on care I'm sure.
So...that's that.
We have 23 years left on our mortgage and dh will be 65 by then.

FrillyMilly Thu 25-Jul-13 22:03:40

I think people's expectations of housing (outside of major citys) has changed. Now people prefer their children not to share rooms whereas my grandparents brought up 4 children in a 3 bed terraced. I also think there is too much emphasis on first time buyers and giving them help. We own a house but are stuck with it due to no equity, struggling to sell and need to save a deposit for another house.

FrillyMilly Thu 25-Jul-13 22:05:53

We also can't get help from the bank of mum and dad, both sets of parents work full time and we are both one of 3. They would all need to be very wealthy to provide 3 children with house deposits.

peteypiranha Thu 25-Jul-13 22:18:05

Frillymilly - Really? Most of my friends have children in 1 or 2 bed flats, and we dont live in a city. I would say thats pretty normal with high rents/mortgages.

sillyoldfool Thu 25-Jul-13 22:26:53

We'll soon have 3 children in a 2 bed flat. Our upstairs neighbours also have 3 kids and 2 bedrooms, I know someone with two kids in a one bed. I know way more people with more children than bedrooms than people who's children all have their own room, which was the norm when I was growing up.

Caster8 Thu 25-Jul-13 22:37:27

See, this is where I disagree with the op. Unless the country starts booming again, I just cant see that there will be a "desperate shortage of housing".

FrillyMilly Thu 25-Jul-13 22:38:26

Maybe it's just where I live (in the north) but as soon as people start having children they want to move from their flats or 2 bed terraced houses in to a 3 bed semi.

Caster8 Thu 25-Jul-13 22:39:07

People are not starting to squash in because of house shortage. But because the cost of housing is getting out of reach of a lot of people. Yes I know about demand and supply, but I dont think it is as simple as that.

peteypiranha Thu 25-Jul-13 22:48:40

I agree with sillyoldfool, when I was younger most children had their own room and lived in houses, whereas now many more families are in flats or sharing with numerous children.

peteypiranha Thu 25-Jul-13 22:50:10

I dont think its shortage as such caster. Its just that most older people are used to living in big houses so keep them on, whereas most young families are in flats or modest homes.

Leithlurker Thu 25-Jul-13 23:32:59

People really do need to get A bigger picture on this.

Firstly for all those too young to remember or from middle class homes who always had "space" just think back to 1946-9 when social house building started. In many cities including London and Glasgow plus many more, the standard that was available was "single ends". For those who do not know that would be as many as 3 generations in just ONE room, with a shared toilet between the entire block of flats. Disease and squalor were rife, in the east end of Glasgow many women lost multiple babies due to lack of basic sanitation and the prevalence of dirt and disease.

Social housing was not and still is not something that only the "deserving" should get. It is part of the drive to have a healthy and happy populace.

The idea that Thatcher had was nothing to do with home ownership, or indeed social mobility it was pure and simple to turn working class voters in to Tory voters as once they were on the housing ladder, conveniently with the rug of social and democratic responsibility withdrawn from them, they would conform to Adam Smith's law and become self centred and protect what they had by voting to benefit themselves.

Roll forward to now and the idea that started with home ownership is now being played out in terms of inheritance, people have come to think that the inheritance being passed down by home ownership is part and parcel of self reliance. Well that just cannot happen becouse economical those that have the houses will need the capitol to fund long term health and social care. They will also be forced to live at home longer instead of going in to local authority care homes or NHS care homes, why? Because the same people who bought their homes also voted in governments who forced councils to privatise care, and open up the NHS to more private providers, their by neatly completing the trap for the home buyer. The only way it would appear to get out of the trap would be to by larger homes, take on higher rates of debt, but in to the life style that comes with economic status based on debt, and hopefully one day be able to sell a home for such a huge amount of money that they become independently wealthy.

In other words people were conned and what we are finding now is that the people paying for the con are the generations who came after Thatcher.

funnyossity Thu 25-Jul-13 23:44:48

I'm surprised we haven't had more US style retirement villages built or planned at least - they would free up larger homes for families. The UK retirement flats I've seen have been a bit unappealing in comparison.

noisytoys Fri 26-Jul-13 05:39:03

Me and DH are one of those with help from the bank of mum and dad, but we have 4 people living in a tiny 1.5 bed flat and have no plans to move. The mortgage will be paid when we are 40 and we hope to support out DCs in getting a small starter flat. Other than that they're on their own grin

peteypiranha Fri 26-Jul-13 07:03:01

Leithlurker - It might be like that then but now people who live in social housing here have big houses with front and back garden etc.Its only the people I know who dont get social housing that are in small places with children.

Caster8 Fri 26-Jul-13 07:39:46

Good points Leithlurker, though for me I dont need politics brought into it all. As far as I am concerned all Governments make mistakes. Also all Governments dont have foresight.

Shelter amd the op seem to be thinking along the same lines. But I suppose, I still have in my mind that things are still going to get a whole lot worse economically, for many years. Therefore we could easily end up like Ireland or Spain with newly built houses empty and never used becuase people will just not be able to afford to live in them.

I am also probably older than some posters on here. So I know that even only a few decades ago, although there was not overcroding everywhere, it was normal to spend a few years with mum and dad after marriage, before a couple got their own house. Times really were not too bad then, doing that.
In other words, I think people need to lower their expectations a bit.

Caster8 Fri 26-Jul-13 07:41:37

I think people of this generation expect things to be the same financially or better than a previous generation. But they dont have to be, and I dont expect them to be. Why should they? Life changes all the time as far as I am concerned. Could be better, could be worse.

peteypiranha Fri 26-Jul-13 08:34:54

Caster8 - That was when people married young though.I married very young and I would have lived with my parents then, but now most of my friends arent marrying until their 30s. Most of my generation will never have a mortgage, or if they do nowhere near as good a house as the previous generation

TheFallenNinja Fri 26-Jul-13 09:05:34

I'll empathise with the student plight when all the student pubs close down through lack of business.

Caster8 Fri 26-Jul-13 09:06:18

There are thousand of young people having babies before they are 20 still.
Agreed that lots that go to uni, are not having babies until their 30's.

dirtyface Fri 26-Jul-13 09:39:40

this terrifies me. my dcs are only 4 and 7 and i already worry about what it will be like when its time for them to leave home

dh and i rent a council house and feel very lucky. but i very much doubt the dcs will ever have that option. i only got my council house through sheer luck a few years ago when i was a single mum, and it took me nearly being made homeless to get it. and its in a rough, shit area but at least its a) affordable and b) secure

we would like to buy a house but even though we earn good money (well over average) we can not afford it, even though house prices have supposedly fallen in value. and i doubt we will never be able to help the dcs buy or even rent a place.

and i have a few 30-something friends who would love children but are trapped in private rented paying out 2/3rds of their salary on rent and just can't afford even one child. some are even still in house shares.

its ridiculously unfair, shelter is a basic human need along with food and water. why is it so scarce and expensive? and why is it increasingly only the wealthy that are able to have the security of buying. makes me sickangry

Leithlurker Fri 26-Jul-13 09:56:46

Castor: Dirtyface makes it clear in her post that however much we would both wish (And I do wish it were the case,) that there was no need for politics to be brought in to it, unfortunately the whole discussion is now political.

From building new homes, to rent control, to the free market, to what it means today to have social mobility, to planning and land ownership. All of it has been politicised and no I am not just saying that it was only Thatcher, she may well have kicked it off. But the value of our society used to be seen as open and friendly, a little reserved maybe, but ultimately fair and cohesive.

Now it's fractured by the need to own things, the striving to look after ones self and family above and to the detriment of others, consumerism driven credit which has ultimately been the cause of the worst down turn in our economy for years. All this based on a simple premise that owning your own home is the one thing that marks you out as being a striver, those in social housing are then much easier to classify as the scroungers and so make the idea of social housing something to be avoided.

The original idea for social housing which can still be seen in little pockets of communities up and down the land is for the unskilled worker to live next door to the professional, for young and old to share the same streets, families and single people to live check by jowl. I would argue that goal is what we should be aiming for, not the retirement villages, or the gated communities for the wealthy, or as we have now the sink estates for the poor, were going back to the slums of the 30's complete with absent landlords in terms of those individuals who went for buy to let in a big way.

TBH housing situation much more complex than the Shelter blog admits.

As many posters have commented, people are living longer, and there is much more demand for smaller units due to marriage break-up, and children leaving home earlier (for many (pre-war) years, it was quite usual for children, including married couples to stay at home much longer). Perhaps, more controversially, there is also the impact of immigration on housing supply.

Add to this, people's expectations and tastes have changed. (It never ceases to amaze me how the countryside around us is despoiled for new builds whilst the houses in and around the town centre are allowed to fall into disrepair).

And the dismantling of the public rented sector, and it's hardly surprising we are in housing meltdown.

The answer, however, isn't primarily in building new homes (which most likley will always be sold off by developers at a premium)'s about making good affordable homes available and preserving a good environment to live in.

More investment in social housing and regenerating our inner cities and old housing stock, better regulation of the private rented sector (when you have no guarantee that you'll be able to stay on at the end of a 6 month tenancy, there is little incentive as a tenant to invest financially or emotionally in a property).

Bank of Mum-and-Dad certainly isn't the answer for most of us. On the other hand, you can't blame people for wanting to help their children, is it really any different from helping out with college fees? This makes it all the more crucial that there are opportunities for those without that parental support...otherwise we will be building a very unequal and disatisfied society.

Leithlurker Fri 26-Jul-13 10:03:02

Sarah you have added to my post in a most eloquent and factual way which was just brilliant. I hope people see my long winded rambling as a background context for your accurate summery.

Me and DH bought a small terraced house in 2008 for £155k with a 10% deposit, helped out by our parents. We were 24 and 26 at the time. We now have a toddler and another on the way shortly. We don't have much of a garden and not a huge amount of space but like a whole lot of people, even though e have our mortgage down to around £120k the house is probably worth £115k tops and we have also spent money on renovating it so we can't really sell it.

We have spent the last year renting it out and renting another place ourselves out in the suburbs but we have decided that when our tenants' lease comes to an end in Feb next year we will move back to our own house because I don't like the instability of renting in private sector and our house, small as it is, is in a great area for schools, parks, close to family / shops / work etc.

Our ages have certainly not kept up with the rise in living costs, we have no savings, I still have at least £10k in student loans to pay off and I find it v hard to imagine how things will be better for our kids. At least our parents were in a position to help us out with some money for a house deposit / wedding but we are unlikely to be in a similar position to help our kids out in future, no matter how much we try to live frugally and build up savings, since the price of groceries / gas / oil / electric / petrol just seem to keep rising while our wages stay the same.

I def think the current system of bank of mum & dad is unsustainable since even fortunate people who have been able to turn to mum & dad to help them out (and given how many mortgage companies seem to want a 20% deposit for a house mum & dad's money won't stretch v far) may be very unlikely to be able to help their own kids out when the time comes to buy a house / pay for uni etc.

Caster8 Fri 26-Jul-13 10:28:26

The op thinks that the problem is the deperate shortage of housing. I dont agree. I think that family size has changed. There are now a vast number of houses with only one or two occupants. Be that elderly people or single parent families, or dads in bedsits.
Not sure what the answer to that is though.

Mind you, as I write this, I realise that when new homes are built they dont stay empty for long.

droid400004 Fri 26-Jul-13 10:51:06

My children owning their own home?! The chance of me and my husband owning our own home seems impossible, let alone our kids. We are 3 (soon to be 4) squashed in a nice-but-small rented 2 bed with a little roof terrace. There is no way we can get on the housing ladder, bank of mum and dad not an option here (trying not to be bitter about that!) and our 'savings' are laughable. I try not to fantasize too much about what family life would be like with a nice little three bed with a garden.... We feel like we have to choose between trying to put aside money for our kids uni/futures, and saving for a family home.

MissHC Fri 26-Jul-13 11:07:00

I think one of the problems is that lots of properties are bought by buy-to-let landlords. Rents in my area are more expensive than a mortgage on a similar property would be.
I am one of those 20-somethings that won't be able to buy a house for a long time yet. We need a £60k deposit for a modest house around here and with how much we have to fork out in rent every month we don't have enough left to save for that deposit.

IMHO another issue is how difficult it is to build a house yourself. It's very hard to get building consent. I'm an EU national and moved to Britain 5 years ago. My partner is British. In my country people compare the price between buying an existing house, and buying a plot of land and building a house on it. If one is cheaper they go for that option. However it's a much more straightforward process than it is over here. Housebuilders here built too many houses with a tiny footprint of bad quality on a plot of land. They then sell them at a premium. People in the UK don't seem to have a clue how much it actually costs to build a house from scratch nor do they seem to expect any quality - probably because of the lack of good quality housing.

Second what people are saying about buy-to-rent landlords pushing the rents way up.

For example, we pay £730 a month mortgage for our terraced house plus £80 rates (no council tax because we are in NI) so £810 in total to own our own place.

Rent on a similar house about a street away is £750, so it's actually more expensive than our mortgage payments. Even though the house prices have come down from the £155k we paid 5 years ago, since a lot of people still can't get mortgages without a 20% deposit and a permanent job contract, that doesn't make housing more affordable or attainable to them, but it is making it more affordable and attractive to buy to let landlords ho are buying places at rock bottom prices, slapping a bit of paint on them and putting in IKEA furniture, then charging £750 a month minimum!

superduperwuper Fri 26-Jul-13 12:56:26

My grandparents lived with my grandads parents after marriage for a year in order to save a house deposit. They were able to buy a 3 bedroom semi in the north east for £3k. Interest rates were high and they had no car, granddad walked to work etc but they were able to do this.

Myself and DH cannot live with our parents. His are 150 miles away for a start. My parents house is not big enough and they are still 40 miles from our work (1.5 hours in rush hour). There is no decent paying jobs in either of our home towns.

Even if we could live at home - we would not be able to save up a decent (25%) deposit of a simmilar house. That would be 50k! We have scrimped and saved £10k now.

To people saying lower your expecatations - It should not be an unachievable dream to be married and own your own modest home.

TiredyCustards Fri 26-Jul-13 19:40:55

it should not be an unachievable dream to be married and own your own modest home

Here here.

cantdoalgebra Fri 26-Jul-13 21:51:13

30 years ago, my parents did not give me or DH a penny towards a house - nor did we expect it. We afforded a mortgage (which at one point reached 17% interest repayments) by eating baked beans, no foreign holidays and eating wild rabbits given to us by our neighbours. Why are houses are on such small plots nowadays? - Prescott reduced the permitted size of plot for new houses. Why are they in short supply? - one reason could be the increase in population in this country. The census shows an increase of approximately six million people between 2000 and 2011.

mizu Fri 26-Jul-13 21:55:47

What about those of us who are now 40 and still rent! A two bed house with our two DDs.

No parental help available here.

We have saved £5,000 in the last year and it has been hard doing that. It will take us forever to get a decent deposit together and I am now thinking that by the time we do, I will be too old to get a mortgage over 25 years.

I am a teacher and DH works in the car industry, neither of us earns much, we earn about £40,000 a year between us which I used to think was a lot but isn't really if you live in the south west as we do.

Most of my friends bought absolutely years ago but got a deposit from parents to help them onto the ladder.

I don't want to be on a ladder, I would just like to be able to afford to buy a small house for us to live in that is ours.

PerilsAsinger Sat 27-Jul-13 00:51:11

The Government could easily help people by freeing up land and ensuring that affordable houses are built on it. They aren't interested; instead Gideon comes out with another scheme to kick the can down the road as far as the house price bubble is concerned.

I didn't think it could get worse after Gordon Brown. I was wrong.

funnyperson Sat 27-Jul-13 02:55:21

It is worrying.

As the bank of mum and dad the calls on the bank are very concerning: university, post graduation, housing, then, presumably grandchildren. All this assumes that one is not only earning enough to be independent, but putting by tens of thousands to support the DC till well after one's own retirement.

Downsizing to help out the DC with a deposit isn't a good option anymore because the rise in house prices means that the capital released wouldn't fund a flat for even one of the DC, as well as a retirement bijou flat for oneself.

So one is left hanging onto the family home as it is the only roof over the family heads.

What can be horrid are emerging comments about one rattling around inside the family home from one's own children who would like a deposit to buy their own place. Friends of mine have given into theses hints and sold up in their fifties and now rent, so as to afford the deposit for their darling DC to be independent.

funnyperson Sat 27-Jul-13 02:56:02

This shocks me.

Interesting thread. I live in an area where second homes are a huge problem. Musing a little while reading this thread it occurred to me that the increasing gap in salaries between executives (top ones I mean), and City salaries versus everyone else is a problem where I live.

Go to St Mawes out of season. The day we went every house facing the sea was empty, bar one where we could see an elderly lady sat alone. Her (small) house was up for sale - at a price utterly unaffordable to anyone on a normal local salary. House after house empty. A few decades ago those houses would have been full of families & fisherman & the place would have had a community.

Apologies to anyone from there, I'm sure it does still have a community, a few streets back from the sea) & you may well prefer it in winter) but on that bleak winter day, the empty houses & empty Notting Hill coffee shop summed up the problem for me. The majority of those houses should have had locals in, people who live there, not visitors.

Caster8 Sat 27-Jul-13 08:36:35

Some places on the north coast have the same problem.

Personally, I think house prices will have no option but to come down a lot further, even in 10 years, but dont quote me on that.

Perhaps saying lower expectations isnt quite the right phrase. Saying, expect lower may have been better to say.

iwantanafternoonnap Sat 27-Jul-13 08:53:33

I think about this a lot but I am lucky in that I only have one child and therefore at the moment bank of mum (single parent) is looking good for him.

I managed to buy my house with money that my mum inherited from my nan. 20% Deposit which was £38,000 there was no way I could have ever of saved that amount up while paying rent somewhere! The deal is that when my mum dies I pay a third of this back to my brother and sister which will of course include interest.

My plans for my DS is that when he gets a job and if he is still living at home to charge him some rent which I will put into a savings account but not tell him so that at some point he will have money for a deposit. Obviously if he chooses to go elsewhere this won't work but it an option at least.

Again I am lucky in that I live in a detached bungalow with 3 beds so if he does decide to have a family there is space if they can not move out and also the option of converting the loft.

The increasing costs of Uni fees, food etc is a worry though but I do try and save £100 a month for him which sometimes I manage and sometimes I have to borrow back as my nurses wage is exactly huge and I am not entitled to anything other than CB. If I had more kids I don't know what I would be able to do to help them.

dirtyface Sat 27-Jul-13 09:06:30

i don't want to be on a ladder, I would just like to be able to afford to buy a small house for us to live in that is ours.

same mizu sad

funnyperson Sat 27-Jul-13 12:20:13

saintly I agree with you about the city salaries driving housing to be unaffordable for the majority.

elastamum Sat 27-Jul-13 14:25:55

It is a big problem. As I am old enough to have decent pensions and live in a big house, I see it my responsibility to sell up and fund my children when they want to set up home. But I recognise that I am one of a small minority who can make this choice hmm

Mrsdavidcaruso Sun 28-Jul-13 09:50:04

We were very lucky when we bought our house, it is a bungalow attached to a large house that has been converted into flats and apart from a parking problem documented by me in the legal section, we are very happy here.

But the reason we were able to buy it was that the previous owner an old lady did not want it sold to the owners of the large house and rented out, or bought as a holiday home by someone who would not use it. We got it quite cheap as it needed doing up and even our surveyor was impressed at the deal we got, however it was a private sale with no Estate Agents involved and the elderly Lady was selling to move into a retirement flat and had enough savings to add to the price she got to enable her to do so.

However we could have afforded something else, something not as close to the sea for the price we paid, I know a lot of people are not as fortunate as us and I do count my blessings

RandomMess Sun 28-Jul-13 13:16:33

I just see the future is dc staying at home much much longer and going without luxuries if they want to save up and move out and need to salaries in order to do so. That is what my parents had to do so I feel it's gone full circle - actually after my Dad's dad died they lost their work accommodation so his siblings and Mum moved back in with his grandfather and each of them remained there until they married and for a while afterwards I think.

I also think if the government stopped propping up the first time buyers than surely in most areas of the country the housing market would crash???? That is what really needs to happen.

morethanpotatoprints Sun 28-Jul-13 14:38:24

I think people believe what they want to believe.
I have 2 sons aged 18 and 21, they only earn min wage and the 18 year old only works part time.
Having their own home is important to them and they sacrifice other things to gain this, just as our generation did.
21 year old has nearly enough for a deposit and acceptance for mortgage no problem. Houses aren't so dear neither, 60k for a starter terrace round here, thats all done up. If you are prepared to do some work from 35k upwards.

I think that's very unusual morethan - you can't get a flat for under 100k here & a 2 bed house would be closer to 200k (depending a bit on area, maybe less but can be a lot more as well) in a place where wages are low. But see my earlier point about second homes.

Housemum Sun 28-Jul-13 15:26:19

DD1 and her boyfriend earn around £30k joint, minimum house price to be a reasonable distance from work by bus (neither can afford to run a car if they buy a house) is £130 for a 1 bed flat in a pretty dull ugly 60s/70s build area with not the best of reputations.

Rental prices are horrendous - no idea how you are supposed to get out of the cycle of renting if you can't save for a deposit. She has around £10k but the better rates are on 20% deposit or more so she has some way to go.

lainiekazan Sun 28-Jul-13 15:38:25

In London there is the problem of foreign investors buying flats - further and further out, too - as a bolt hole for their assets. I think I read that over 60% of sales in London last year were to overseas buyers. This obviously has a knock-on effect. I think there should be extremely punitive charges on investment/second properties. Something like ten times the council tax might be a start.

I also note that dirty face says she only got a housing association house because she was a single parent. It makes me wonder whether we should encourage our dds to have babies as teenagers to secure a property, because as sure as hell most aren't going to get one if they have a job and get married.

RandomMess Sun 28-Jul-13 16:12:14

I live in the cheapest area of Surrey cheapest studio flat in postcode has asking price of £112k leasehold sad like I said my dc won't be moving out anytime soon!

Caster8 Sun 28-Jul-13 16:43:36

I can see that where you are, morethanpotatoprints, that saving a deposit and getting a house is still obtainable, even for younger people. Nice to know.
60k wouldnt get anyone anywhere where I live. A garden shed?

noisytoys Sun 28-Jul-13 16:45:49

I just looked at Rightmove, they have 50% ownership flats where I live for £80k new build. The cheapest 1 bed flat, leasehold, is £125k (which surprised me because I bought my 2 bed flat 5 years ago for £100k - but it is close to London)

morethanpotatoprints Sun 28-Jul-13 16:59:30

Caster and Saintly

I don't think its unusual its just that its not south. True it is cheap in our area Greater Manchester, Liverpool, Lancashire, Cheshire, and the areas of NE. I think all areas are lumped together in many reports and give people the wrong view of it all.
I know its likely to be impossible in the south and really feel sorry for people down there.
I do think that some young people do expect lot too. Some of my ds friends who could quite easily afford a rent or to save a deposit have no money due to their love of luxuries. I think they are very entitled in some respects. We did without all luxuries and non essentials to save a deposit and we had 2 bedrooms not the 3 that many want to start with now.

Caster8 Sun 28-Jul-13 17:05:33

I dont think you realise quite how cheap compared to elsewhere. I literally think that where I live, that may be the cost of a garage. Think that area of Dorset, that is famous. Not so bad as that, but nearly. Locals are almost totally priced out in certain areas. And they are in my area. The only young locals that live here, have a minor celebrity dad.

morethanpotatoprints Sun 28-Jul-13 17:13:36


I can sympathise it sounds like where we used to live, our ds wouldn't have afforded a place there and local young people had to move out of the area it was so sad. We moved up north, and ended up with twice the size house for the same money as we paid in East Anglia.
My comment about the dc of today was in general and even up here there are young people bleating they can't afford to leave mum and Dad. In many cases they can clearly afford it but are prioritising other things such as cars, latest gadgets, entertainment etc. My point was my generation did without all this when saving for a house.
If a couple are living separately with their respective parents there is no reason why one full wage couldn't be saved per year at least. A hefty deposit could be saved. I know its not the case for all young couples, but it doesn't help to solve the problem if the truth isn't known.

Caster8 Sun 28-Jul-13 17:17:56

To be fair, I have seen somewhere else on another thread, the things you went without with. So I know that when you say you went without luxuries and non essentials, that is exactly what you did. All the way down to furniture if I remember correctly.

morethanpotatoprints Sun 28-Jul-13 17:31:44


Yes, we had old orange crates and a mattress and a few bits and pieces, but no new 3 piece, dining table etc.
I think we were the extreme though and wouldn't suggest others should have to do this, but a few less home comforts and entertainment/ gadgets would help younger people a bit.
We didn't need a huge deposit in comparison to house value like they do today and I know this is harder to achieve. I would imagine where you are the deposit could be completely out of reach, but in the same context we would never have afforded a house in your area neither.
I don't know what the answer is except maybe those who can relocate do so for the short term and allow some equity in a property which will fund a move back to the south again.

roseely12 Mon 29-Jul-13 07:25:13

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

Caster - the problem for our area isn't so much that it's south. It's not south east (we are four hours from London & further west it's even more of a problem) & wages are very low for the UK. We could actually move closer to London to an area with higher wages & find cheaper housing. The problem here is purely second homes that have driven the prices up way beyond the reach of locals. The stats show that this are of the UK has the largest multiple between average wages & house prices. It's bad for the area in many other ways - having many cottages empty in a village for the winter is not great for a community - and I would love to see more done to regulate second home ownership in certain areas.

Of course this is part of a wider problem of the salaries of this working in certain sectors being inflated beyond everyone else (a gap that has grown enormously in recent years)

Caster8 Mon 29-Jul-13 11:19:40

Second areas are a problem in our area. And now seem to be getting worse again. Not directly where I am, but not far away. And I then think it makes the areas surrounding it have higher house prices because of it. Local MPs seem to make murmurings about it, but nothing happens. Perhaps their hands are tied?

Oh sorry caster my post was in reply to morethan - I do agree with you.

Caster8 Mon 29-Jul-13 11:57:17

I was surprised you adressed it to me, but I did my best!


Bodicea Tue 30-Jul-13 22:16:12

I know I am very lucky, in that my parents had the foresight and funds to buy a house while I was at university and sell it to me three years later in 2005 for the price they paid. As it had gone up in value in that time I didn't need a deposit and was able to get an interest only mortgage which I could just about afford on my very average graduate wage. It cost my parents nothing except the surprise tax bill (oops). And now I have moved up the ladder to a lovely home with my husband who also did ok out of the property boom. It helps that I live in the north too.
However if you compared the way I lived my life to the teen and twenty somethings now, I lived very meagerly. I didn't get a manicure or a decent hair cut until I was employed and earning my own money. I didn't go on expensive holidays. I had a cheap CRT tele until 2009 and only got sky tv recently. Most of my furniture was hand me down- still is in fact. These are just small examples but you get the picture. I see Teens and twenty somethings spending fortunes getting their nails done, hair done, spray tans, new outfits every weekend etc, etc-they all have the latest gadgets etc. they are living off bank of mum and dad in a different way - a way which I never did.
This generation has no clue how to save or live on a budget. I am not saying they don't have it more difficult than I did - clearly they do but they don't help themselves.

Kassett Wed 31-Jul-13 10:22:18

Bodicea - have you considered that perhaps twenty somethings realise that owning their own home will be completely out of the question for a lot of them and they probably wonder why should they save?

I think a lot of them have probably given up the idea and think they may as well spend what money they have.

It's a dreadful state this country is in due to high house prices.

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