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Guest post: Shirley Conran - 'maths is a feminist issue'

59 replies

MumsnetGuestPosts · 12/09/2014 17:03

The only sex education my mother ever gave me was a little book about goldfish; so if I ever fall in love with a goldfish, I shall know exactly what to do. Sex was one of those things people assumed young ladies didn't need to know about. Another was money, and I was taught even less about that. Whilst (thankfully) our sex education has come on leaps and bounds, I believe there's still an issue with what we tell our daughters about finance and maths.

First off, there are a couple of myths about maths that need addressing. The first is that some people are born with a ‘gift’ for maths which others lack. Actually, only 3% of us have dyscalculia – which means you really can't do maths – so 97% of us are more than capable.

Secondly, it's a myth that boys are naturally better at maths than girls. In fact, girls actually do better than boys until puberty. But it seems that lots of girls are led to believe that once they leave school, the only time they’ll need maths is to calculate their cycle.

Clearly, we'll all need maths after school, for everything from going to the shops to starting your own business. It is part of an adult's daily life, and you can't do much without it.

As a schoolgirl, I experienced a fear of maths that I now know was down to bad teaching. When I started a business, I had to teach myself the basics. I didn't learn bookkeeping until I was fifty years old - my son's PA taught me in half an hour, and it transformed my life. Suddenly, all the maths stuff made sense and I asked myself, why - when I now found maths so interesting, useful and easy to understand - had I ever found it so terrifying?

The answer became obvious when I started researching for an online maths course I was writing. A number of girls and women told me: “I'm hopeless as maths because my mother was.” But surely they would never have said they couldn't read or write because their mother couldn't? Lots of them seemed to believe that boys had inherited a few extra chromosomes, perhaps called MA (‘Maths Ability’) and GM (‘Good at Money’).

Too often, I still hear the phrase “my partner does all our money stuff”. I think that lots of women still lack the confidence to take charge of their family’s finances, and it becomes easier to accept that the man will be the one to look after the mortgage payments and life insurance, because, naturally he will have MA and GM. But what if said man falls under a bus?

I want all women to be able to know whether she is getting the best deal, from her energy bills to her phone plan. Women need maths to be independent. Sometimes, relying on your partner’s income is unavoidable. The gender pay gap, maternity leave, the cost of childcare – society is structured so that many women, at various points in their lives, are financially dependent on men. But a good understanding of maths and budgeting can mitigate this.

If a woman believes she can’t understand money, then she can’t interfere with a man’s expenditure or financial plans. It has suited men to have women believe that they are physiologically lacking in maths ability – and it still does. This is why maths is a feminist issue.

Maths is essential to making money and spending it shrewdly. It costs an average of £220,000 to raise a child, and when the majority of day-to-day costs are still left to the mothers to sort out, the least we can do is equip our daughters with the budgeting skills they'll need.

If you are someone who lacks confidence in maths, I believe that you can learn it by yourself, half an hour at a time. There really is nothing to stop you: you have as much MA and GM as any man.

OP posts:
PausingFlatly · 12/09/2014 17:52

Thank you so much for that post.

I've long been concerned about people in general being proud to be poor at maths.

And similarly concerned about the low numbers of women progressing in STEM careers.

But I hadn't put two and two together about the impact within the home of women assuming maths isn't for women.

You've just made the, ahem, penny drop!

LetticeKnollys · 12/09/2014 18:04

I have to admit that I see myself in this post. My mum always did herself down as bad at maths, even though I reckon she was probably a bit smarter than my dad. It was just a confidence thing. Then I became 'bad at maths' and, yes, my partner does all of the money stuff.

It's something which I have become conscious of in the last few years and am determined to encourage my DC with their maths and stop the cycle.

Ozne · 12/09/2014 19:52

Something that bewilders me is that it is socially acceptable to say "I'm rubbish at maths" whilst being rubbish at reading is stigmatised. This goes for both genders in my experience.

Why is it almost a matter of pride to be the most rubbish at maths?

WinifredTheLostDenver · 12/09/2014 19:55

Yy ozne

gamerwidow · 12/09/2014 20:01

I hate the pride people have in being rubbish at maths too. Most people would be mortified to admit they can't read or write but will cheerfully boast they can't add up.
I think we need to show both genders how important Maths can be to real life situations. Often kids get bogged down by the lack of use of algebra or trigonometry to day to day life so fail to see why Maths is relevant.

FWIW it's worth I look after all the money and financial decisions in our family my DH showing no interest whatsoever in these matters. :)

Stealthpolarbear · 12/09/2014 20:16

Good post though I'd like to see a focus on women wanting a career that needs maths as well as family budgeting

slightlyglitterstained · 12/09/2014 20:21

A colleague who in her first week told me "oh no I am no good at numbers" later became our resident accounting expert.

Good post.

JustAShopGirl · 12/09/2014 21:02

what lots of people call maths is actually just arithmetic though...

when I went to school in Scotland in the 70s they were even taken as separate O'Grade exams.

Frozennortherner · 12/09/2014 21:45

Good post. Half an hour ago my 9 yr old dd was in tears saying she was rubbish at maths at school. How can I help her? She's been put in the second to lowest stream and I think that's just confirmed to her that she's no good at it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm convinced it's a confidence thing. I want to know practical ways of building that in her. Anyone any ideas?

Pico2 · 12/09/2014 21:54

I think that this (and perhaps people's thinking) is a bit confused. The numeracy required to look after personal finances and for most accounting is simple addition, subtraction, a little multiplication and division and perhaps percentages. These skills are taught in primary school (where girls outperform boys). These skills are quite different to the maths taught at a secondary level (and for some children towards the end of primary). The numeracy skills do underpin further maths study at high levels (e.g. GCSE) and certainly more is required for STEM degrees/careers than basic numeracy.

Everyone should have this level of basic numeracy and we need to make it clear that this is basic stuff, not rocket science.

pasbeaucoupdegendarme · 12/09/2014 22:26

This is really interesting. I absolutely agree with those who say it's shocking that people consider it acceptable, and even a matter of pride, to say that they are not good at maths.

I really struggled with maths as a child and my mother (who is an intelligent woman) always left the "helping me" to my father, who used to tell me it was easy but not explain why! So, subconsciously, men were good at maths and women weren't.

When I went to uni I took responsibility for all the rent/bills and so on for our house and organised phone line, gas and electric and so on.

Now I am married to a maths lecturer and perhaps inevitably he sorts everything! But it means I have no idea about our finances and heaven forfend he should fall under a bus!

ErrolTheDragon · 12/09/2014 23:16

My DD is lucky... I've got 2 maths A levels, DH a mere one Wink, and she sees me working from home writing software in which I have to use all sorts of maths (not just arithmetic). So she knows maths is useful, and she's never had that daft idea that men are better at it. She's in yr11, doing some additional maths - enthused about calculus which is fun and she can see its applicability to actual problems.

Guess what, she's planning to become an engineer. Smile

DaughterDilemma · 13/09/2014 00:13

Only 25% of engineering students are women. This is a huge issue. Shirley is absolutely right to highlight it, I hope schools make an attempt to redress the balance, or retrouser it perhaps.

fuzzpig · 13/09/2014 07:29

Great post.

My dream career (before I got very ill and couldn't even finish my degree - but I'm only 27 so maybe it can happen one day) was to be a maths specialist in a primary school. The main reason I fell in love with this idea was that I was depressed seeing children (most notably my wonderful, intelligent stepdaughters) finish primary school having long since totally given up on the idea that they could do maths. I'd not really considered a gender issue at the time but yes, it was mostly girls.

People often told me that as I was so good at maths, I should really consider being a secondary maths teacher, because at that time there was a shortage of them and I'd probably be snapped up - but I said that by then it was too late, a huge amount of children (and now I think about it, again, mostly girls) will have already been put off, and have 'checked out' of the subject. I wanted to make a difference earlier and send children off to secondary with an enthusiasm for maths, not a fear of it.

...And then my own DD, now 7, went to school and I realised she is really really struggling with even very basic maths :( I have spent time with her on this and it seems to be that she doesn't even grasp the basic concepts. I have to admit dyscalculia is on my mind too. I don't think it's gender related even though my younger DS is already ahead of her in some ways (and I grumble when people say "oh she's a girl/he's a boy, it's no wonder") - it's the ways their individual brains happen to work, not their sex. Could easily be the other way round (would be silly of me not to realise that, given that I'm great at maths :o). Anyway, we are working on it gradually and the absolute key for me, as I said to her yr2 teacher, is to keep her confidence. She has just moved to a separate junior school so I'm looking forward to having a proper discussion with the teacher about how we can help her progress.

Sorelip · 13/09/2014 08:12

I was terrified of maths from an early age, yet my two younger brothers were and are very good at it. I only found out how enjoyable maths can be when I took an introductory module with the OU.

I'm angry that I was scared of maths for so long.

tribpot · 13/09/2014 08:32

Interesting post. In my house, I do the budget, I also work in IT and DH is a SAHD so I'm prepared to accept we are not typical. That said, from reading MN I would have thought a majority (?) of women were the budget managers whether or not they earn the money being budgeted. It might make an interesting poll for MN.

I would not dispute, however, that Money Stuff is a great idea and there are far too many people who don't understand enough about how money works or feel maths is too hard for them. (Including some who take the role of budget manager at home, despite the evidence presented by their own ability).

I could not cope without understanding our family's finances in detail. It doesn't bother DH in the slightest. But I also worry about the 'under the bus' scenario as a result.

diddlediddledumpling · 13/09/2014 08:34

one of the strengths of single sex schools is that this idea just seems like nonsense. I work in a girls' grammar school and of course some pupils struggle with maths but I don't by think they put it down to their gender, just the inevitable truth of being better at some things than others.

NotCitrus · 13/09/2014 08:34

It's not just for personal budgeting - maths underpins careers in programming, engineering, finance, science, geography...

The aspiration of personal budgeting is too low - girls should be encouraged to think about budgeting to " support a family". Too often girls are encouraged to get a career to " support themselves" and go into work that is interesting but low paid, because that is sufficient to support themselves. Boys are asked how their career plans will enable them to "support a family" so start thinking about how to get higher-paid jobs from the start.

If more girls thought maths was necessary for their aims, they'd mostly manage it, rather than ditching it as irrelevant and leaving stereotypes that girls don't do maths (like in my all-girl school where it was a given that double maths A-level was only for nerds and some girls decided against it because they knew they'd be the only non-SouthEastAsian in the class).

Phineyj · 13/09/2014 08:47

I know quite a few men who claim they are not 'GM' and leave all the money stuff to women in their lives, although I otherwise agree with the article. Whatever your gender, it is annoying to be stuck with all the responsibility for managing the family finances and causes big problems if the financial decision-maker does, indeed, fall under a bus. I am pleased finance has gone onto the National Curriculum.

sandgrown · 13/09/2014 08:48

As stated previously the maths required for home budgeting is pretty basic stuff. I was pretty poor at maths at senior school but I think it was down to a poor teacher as when I was put in a remedial group I quickly improved. I ran pubs for a number of years and as a result my mental arithmetic is great.( We had old fashioned tills). At a quiz night recently I astounded DSS mates by working something out in my head before they had got their phones out!

HaveYouTriedARewardChart · 13/09/2014 09:31

I read this yesterday and felt a bit Hmm about the thought of women needing maths to be able to do household finances or book keeping.

Very basic maths! And seems a rather limited aspiration. Not that o don't think the household finances isn't hard in other ways or important thing for women to be involved in, but to hold it as an example of what you can do with maths is a bit odd.

In our house I have the maths, the IT job, and am the one who models our finances and does everything to do with numbers.

My DP on the other hand is the one who actually earns the money and attempts to control how fast it disappears!

PausingFlatly · 13/09/2014 10:21

Surely that's the OP's point, HaveYouTriedARewardChart?

It's not that household and bookkeeping maths is particularly hard (it's basic, as everyone's said).

It's that girls' and womens' belief that this basic stuff is maths-therefore-too-hard-for-females is stopping them even trying it.

Which is ridiculous because it's
a) perfectly within their abilities, and
b) really important for life and equality.

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PausingFlatly · 13/09/2014 10:30

It just hadn't dawned on me before that the lack of women in STEM professions would be duplicated at the level of basic, life-skills maths. I feel Blush for never having thought of that dimension.

CalamitouslyWrong · 13/09/2014 10:46

I always think substitution of arithmetic for all maths does an enormous amount to make everyone thing that maths is, frankly, tedious. Arithmetic is boring (yes it's useful, and everyone should be proficient in basic numeracy for everyday life) but maths is so much more than just adding and subtracting and multiplying.

It's like reducing all the joy and interest and versatility of the English language to spelling. Or reducing history to simply memorising lists of names and dates. Or geography to the simple act of reading a map or memorising names of countries and capital cities. Admittedly these are all things that the idiots who get into government often tend towards too. But the difference is that with English or history or just about anything else, they're met with loud opposition from people who want to point out how much more there is to these subjects, and how much more valuable their study is for that. With maths people seem to be much more accepting of reducing the subject to the instrumental use of arithmetic in everyday life. And far fewer voices shouting about the elegance of an equation in expressing an idea that would take you many paragraphs to express or writing, or the necessity of all sorts of really interesting maths in understanding how stuff works.

stealthsquiggle · 13/09/2014 11:05

It's the social acceptability aspect which worries me most - as pp have said, why is it ok to say that you are rubbish at maths, when saying the same thing about reading would not be something people would admit to, let alone be perversely proud of.

I am very glad that the brilliant, outspoken, inspiring head of maths at DC's school is a woman. She has breezed through any objections from some of the early years staff that maths is not their "thing" to introduce a structured approach with individual goals for all the DC from reception onwards, and hopefully soon she will manage to replace the (middle aged male) member of staff who nearly managed to put off even my maths geek DS, so goodness only knows what he did to those less keen and able.

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