Am a bit uneasy about this, would like opinions

[emsiewill]

My dds go to an after-school club on a Monday night (not linked to any school; privately run in conjunction with a private nursery).

Although we have always been resonably happy with it; it is within walking distance of home, not wildly expensive, and dds seem to like it, there are a couple of things that have come up that when all put together make me feel that I should maybe be looking elsewhere for after school care.

First thing is the food - in their literature, they say they provide a "snack" for children. This usually consists of things like a couple of crackers and a drink, or some toast and crisps. Dd1 has told me a couple of times that she didn't get crisps, or a cake, or some other item of food, because they "ran out". (She is a very mature 7, by the way, with a thirst for listening in on adult conversation, so I do believe what she's telling me she heard). I have put my head in the sand about the quality of the food and the amount provided for a while now, as it's only 1 day a week (someone once described it as taking a "high level view" I think! ).

They have recently moved premises, and have had so much damage done to the after-school club by various children (sinks pulled off walls, sofas ripped, chairs broken) that they sent out a letter detailing their new "3 strikes and you're out" policy. Dd1 in particular says she has no friends there, and both dds have told me of (minor) incidents that they have been involved in - nothing more serious than silly name calling etc, but enough for them to mention it to me.

The incident which has prompted me to write this happened last week. All children from dds' school are collected in a taxi which is driven by one of the "aunty's" husbands. Last week, there was not enough room in the taxi, so dds were left behind to wait for a second taxi. Dds weren't concerned about this, but communication seems to have broken down somewhere, as dd1 tells me that the headteacher was on the brink of calling me when the second taxi turned up - she obviously thought they had been abandoned.

Today when I arrived, there was a letter saying that the club have been informed that they need to provide an escort in any transport that they provide. On Tuesdays - Fridays, this will be the wife of the taxi driver (who works in the club), but on Mondays there is no room, so they will not be providing an escort, and for us to sign to say that we understand that when there is no escort, the children are not the responsibility of the club (but not whose responsibility they are during the taxi ride). I had to sign there and then, which I did, as I was taken by surprise. However, I am now regretting this, and am not happy with this - how can they say that they are not responsible? Maybe they were never responsible before, but they didn't spell it out. Now they have, I'm feeling very uneasy.

If you have read this far, congratulations. I wish I could be a bit more concise with my posts. Anyway, I would welcome your opinions on this. Childcare is a problem for us, we have more or less no-one living nearby that we can call on for informal childcare, so we rely heavily on organised childcare. To take the girls out would be a drastic step - we use the club in the holidays, too, and if we break the regular link, that may no longer be available to us. But is it one that I should consider?

[polkadot]

I have to say that I'd be worried about the standard of care as it appears to be slipping. I think that I'd look elsewhere as it would be better to pay a bit more for peace of mind.

[Twiglett]

Take them out and find somewhere else

I think each individual issue on its own is almost enough to move a child, but when you put it together like that I think its appalling

No child can be responsible for itself .. they have to be in someone's care

I think you've been extremely patient but I'd start looking and find emergency temporary care in the meantime

good luck (sorry to be so black and white)

[coppertop]

If you were told that the price included a snack then the children should be given one. If that's not happening then the club should be offering parents some of their money back.

Does the price you pay include the taxi fare? If the answer is yes then even a second taxi will still be classed as being provided for by the club. They can't get out of their duty to provide an escort by getting parents to sign a piece of paper. If this is a legal duty then I wouldn't have thought that this get-out clause would be enough tbh. The school should organise a larger taxi which will hold ALL of the children and the escort.

Leaving the two girls alone to wait for a second taxi is outrageous IMHO. Who would have taken responsibility if something had happened to them?? You pay for supervision at all times so that is what you should be getting!

[80sMum]

Is the club registered with Ofsted? It should be if it is caring for children under 8. Ask to see their registration certificate; ideally it should always be on display anyway. If you're worried, then maybe you should phone Ofsted and see what they say about unescorted children. It would seem to me that if you're paying the club from the point of pick-up, then the club is responsible for your children while in the taxi. It looks like they've asked you to sign a disclaimer because they don't have enough drivers/vehicles/chaperones for the number of children they're collecting. They must be insured. Are they saying that any injury (perish the thought) to your children would not be their liability? You may have signed something that says you allow your children to travel at your own risk. You need to be clear with the club exactly where you stand, and then decide whether to continue leaving your children with them or not.

[agy]

I'd say take them out. Sorry! Just doesn't sound good enough, does it?

[emsiewill]

The letter said that they ahd been "advised" by CSIW (I think that was the acronym), but that they are not legally obliged to provide an escort. I am really kicking myself now, I should have asked for a copy of the letter.

I feel a real fool, actually. Reading it all back, it seems obvious. My old childminder is babystting for me tomorrow, am going to ask her whether she could have them on a Monday. Have already called the council for the list of childminders in the area. We're in Wales, so can't get details from the childcare link website - I am of those of you who can access this information so easily.

[Twiglett]

don't be .. its inevitably out of date

[emsiewill]

Well, have had a chat with our old childminder tonight, and asked her whether she would be prepared to meet the girls on a Monday and bring them home. She seemed quite keen, and is going to have a think about it.

The more I tell this story to various people, the more I realise how bad it is. And my childminder said that she had heard "worrying" things about the place from the woman who does her inspections (who also inspects the after-school club). So I think I've made the best decision.

[Branster]

I'd say take them out of this club. there are a great number of question marks and you seem to have no clear information from the adults involved in this club: mostly what your children inform you (true as it is, the 'teachers' should talk to you in person about these things themselves).
And most importantly: if your children don't seem that wild about it anyway (i.e no friends etc) why put them through this experience?! The fact that some other children in the same environment are capable of ripping down a club building (did I understand that correctly, or maybe these are children who spend time there on sepparate dates/times) makes me think you really wouldn't want your children mixing with them.
After all, it's quite clear you yourself have major doubts about the club so take them out of there.
Now you need to find another after school club!

[emsiewill]

For anyone who's interested, I am just about to email the CSIW (Care Standards Inspectorate for Wales) about this situation. The more I think about it, the more unhappy I become. Here's what my email says:

"Dear Sir / Madam

I am writing to try and get some information from you about the provision of transport from my childrens' school to their after school club, particularly with reference to the provision of escorts.

My children attend their after-school club on one night a week, and last Monday I was presented with a letter which stated that the club would now be providing an escort in the taxi that takes the children from their school to the after-school club. However, the letter went on to say that on Mondays, the number of children travelling means that there is no room in the taxi for an escort. It said that they had decided to provide an escort on your (CSIW) recommendation, but as it was not compulsory, they were not going to provide one on a Monday.

This alone seems to me a little strange, but what concerns me more is that the letter went on to say that as there will be no escort in the taxi on a Monday, then the club has no responsibility for the children while they are in the taxi. It did not say who is responsible for the children. I was told I had to read and sign the letter there and then, and was given no time to reflect on the implications of this. During the days after I signed the letter, I have had time to think about this, and I am not at all happy with it.

I have more or less decided to remove my children from the club, as there are a number of issues that I have not been overly happy with for a while, but before I talk with the manager of the club, I would like to get the facts straight, and know if they are able to just dispense of any responsibility to my children so easily. After all, I pay them not only to look after my children, but also to get them from school to the club safely.

I have deliberately not named the club, as I do not (yet) wish to make a formal complaint.

I look forward to your reply, I can be contacted by email, or at the address / on the numbers listed below."

I'll let you know what response I get.