24 hour childcare advice

[BooBoo62]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to Mumsnet and would really appreciate some advice from all you parents out there. I live in the North West and am a Registered Childminder and Mum to 3 great kids. My problem is while I love my job its getting almost impossible to keep up with all the new Gov funded places opening. Within 5 min walk from my house i have had a huge Nieghbourhood Nursery and a Breakfast/After School club open within the last 12 months and now I've discovered a New Childrens Centre is to open as well. This will put me out of business all together as I just can't compete with their reduced prices and still offer a quality service to my parents.

I have looked at my options and realise there is a gap to fill with unsocial (atypical) hours such as evenings, weekends and especially nights. Ofsted will give me the varience on my registration to offer this service once I have the required number of beds but having spoken to my Early Years team, I have been told that no one has ever enquired about overnight care???? This seems really odd to me as we have to big stores open 24 hours and numerous care homes and 24 hour care agencies in the area. I have checked with CIS (childrens information service) and no one offers this overnight service.

I'm worried I could be spending much more money on adapting my home for this service if it never gets used.

I wondered how many mums out there would be glad of a service like this, either on a regular, work based contract or even for ad hoc use simply to enjoy a night off without the kids. I estimated the cost would be around £30.00 per night fro 7pm to 8am inclusive of supper and breakfast for Sun to Thurs and £35.00 for Fri and Sat.

I'm sorry to waffle on but I'd be so grateful for some real feedback from the people who would actually use this service. Please also let me know what you think of the price, is it too much, what would you pay, and if you wouldn't use a service like this, please be frank and tell me why,

Thanks so much everyone, your time is much appreciated.

[Tessiebear]

I suppose that overnight there is "usually" a husband/wife who works in the day and is at home at night. A single parent working nights would probably not be able to afford that much for one night. It would be affordable for a "one - off" but then most people would possibly use family or someone that the children already knew. Sorry to be unhelpful but though i would give my thoughts on the subject!

[cab]

Booboo I wouldn't use it because I think children sleep best in their own beds. Also £30 to £35 for a night would just about wipe out the benefit of working for often poorly paid shift workers? Don't know if a poorly paid single mum would get her childminding paid for? That might make a difference so such a mum could work when child is asleep and see him/her during the day.
Best of luck.

[BooBoo62]

Thanks Tessiebear,
I forgot to mention that I checked with Inland Revenue about Working Family Tax Credit too as I was thinking of single parents, and their answer was if you're entitled to claim the childcare element you can use it to cover whatever hours you need, regardless of the time of day, it's still childcare. I wondered if many parents knew that or just assume that because it's night care they wouldn't get it. It's also surprising how many people would be entitled to this even with a good wage. It's always worth checking.

[wobblyknicks]

booboo - you might have to go out and canvass people's opinions because maybe many mums just assume such a service doesn't exist so they don't ask for it. I've been looking for a childminder recently and saw one who does overnight and weekend care, not just for emergencies, but as a regular thing and I was amazed. I asked a couple of mums I know if there were many like that and they were shocked (in a good way) as well that someone actually does that. I'd love to do nights (more chance of work down here) and have a childminder look after dd but the childminder in question only does 3-5 year olds so dd is out (15 months).

Also, I'd love the service if I wanted to go out one night and have someone more qualified than a babysitter.

Single parents on a low income would be able to get help with the cost so that might not be much of an obstacle. Think your main obstacle is just the fact that many people won't expect to get a service like that so won't have considered working nights as they think its impossible.

The major downside I can see, to be frank, is that a parent working in the day pays for childcare in the day, end of story. But a parent working at night would have to pay for that childcare and then either try and get some sleep with an active child or pay for more childcare while they get some kip, not sure how that would affect things!!!

[Jimjams]

There is a mumsnet poster who is a weekend childminder. Hopefully she'll see the thread.

[goosey]

Hi BooBoo,
I offer exactly the same service as you are describing and have found that by leaflet droppping every home in my town I have built up a lovely clientele with regular - albeit often short notice - work.
I charge £20 between 8pm and 8am inclusive of supper and breakfast, and my normal hourly rate of £2.50 for extra hours.
I do not charge extra for bank holidays or unsocial hours.
The key is to be 100% professional at all times and to advertise EVERYWHERE.
I love what I do and find it very satisfying. I only care for children from birth to school age (5) as I have also identified a gap in the market for a nursery type environment that is also geared up as nurseries are for under fives. Often childminders take on lots of before and after schoolers and the bigger kids can intimidate the littlies. I have found that parents love the idea of a safe home nursery providing personal care and flexible hours.
Please message me for any further help or info.
I'm not too far away from you either WK!

[goosey]

lol - hiya JimJams!

[Fennel]

Booboo62 - where are you? I live in S Manchester and we are looking for weekend childcare, but not every weekend.

I think there is quite a demand for weekend and off peak childcare. We have excellent weekday care, but with 3 under 5's we don't like to use inexperienced babysitters so are looking for a proper childcarer.

In case it helps, here's what we are looking for, so you get an idea of what people might want:

Personally what we would use if we could get it would be childcare for occasional weekend days or half days. we wouldn't need overnight, I have a sister who lives locally and does that for me. But weekend days are currently a problem. DP often spends a lot of the weekend teaching windsurfing, I also sometimes work weekends, so we would like someone for half or full days on saturdays or sundays, not every week but fairly regularly.

I would also consider occasional overnights for when I go away with work and sometimes take DP too, but only if the children already knew the childminder. Some employers will pay for this (I think mine might if if really wanted me to go away). £30 per night sounds perfectly reasonable.

[wobblyknicks]

goosey - where are you? (suddenly imagining odd nights free!!)

[goosey]

Near Plymouth on the Devon side. Free??? Who said free???!!! lol

[BooBoo62]

Thanks everyone for your input, this is great and just what I needed.

I totally understand your point of view Cab and agree that children do sleep better in their own beds. Unfortunately, even with family willing to care for the children on a regular basis this can sometimes lead to ill feelings, and not all families are willing. Also, I heard of a lady police officer in my area who wanted to go for promotion but couldn't because it meant working some nights. As her hubby was also in the police childcare would have been unavailable and there were no services like this other then babysitters, not qualified or police checked etc so she ended up not going for the promotion.

Someone else mentioned that people may be concerned about night care even with a childminder because during the day it was usually only the childminder there but at night other members of the family would be there. Perhaps parents aren't aware that all members of a childminders family over the age of 16 have to be police checked too and in many cases, as mine, hubby is often registered too. Just wondered about that, how would you go about letting people know your home and the people in it are safe. As a parent, that would be my first priority????

Wobblyknicks, you made a very valid point and one I hadn't considered re sleeping during the day with young child. I will have to do some thinking on that one, check if wftc would cover extra costs of part time day care as well or reduce fees or something. It works well if the children are school aged of course.

With regard to the canvassing, how would I go about doing that? Any suggestions would be gratefully recieved.

I do hope the weekend childminder sees this. I would love to know how things work for her.

Thanks again girls. Please keep posting with your thought. It really is very helpful.

[wobblyknicks]

Oh right - not near enough for regular stuff but would definitely consider you if I needed a night out up there!!! Lol, not free money-wise but free time!!! Have forgotten what its like to have free time!!!!

[wobblyknicks]

booboo - think goosey's idea of leaflet dropping would be extremely good, as you'd get the target area - and also if you are on the government's childcare website and make it very clear you do nights. You make a very good point about school-age kids, in that case the parents would probably even end up with a little time free in between ending work/sleeping/getting the kids back!!!

Just a q out of pure curiosity - if you had babies sleeping overnight, would you be happy to deal with sleeping traumas - ie refusing to sleep. Just that I'm sure there'd be a lot of parents willing to shell out for night childcare for the odd night if it meant they got a good night and didn't have to do cc AGAIN!!

[tigermoth]

goosey - hello from me too! I will email you soon.l

dh and I haven't had a single night without kids for 11 years. We have no family nearby and our friends only have our oldest for a sleepover, so the youngest (age 5) is always left with us.

It would be fab to know a 24 hour service exists. And even fabber if the service allowed us a late morning pickup. None of our babysitters (and we have had at least six over the years) would stay all night.

However, with two children how would you calculate pay? even if the rate is a very reasonable £20.00 a child, if each child is charged then that's £40.00 at least - far more than we'd pay a babysitter for an evening. To be honest the price would, at most times, be out of our range.

I imagine many parents who cannot find 24 hour childcare have more than one child - if we had just the one, we could juggle sleepover favours with friends far more easily. OK we might be able to organsie a sleepover for the oldest and pay for the youngest but then what happens if the sleepover arrangement falls through at the last minute? Would you consider offering discounts for siblings?

[goosey]

Hi Tigermoth,

I am only registered for one child to sleep overnight so haven't had to address the question of discounts for siblings. I imagine as you say the cost would be prohibitive for lots of people for an 'evening out' but with child tax credits for night workers (many of whom - thinking specifically of nhs workers) are on increased pay for night work, the £40 would be less than they would pay for an equivalent 'day' of care for two children elsewhere.
My daughter(17 and police checked), and I also offer evening/overnight babysitting in parent's own homes and charge £3 per hour before midnight, £4 per hour after midnight if not staying all night, and £20 flat rate for after midnight if staying the night. This would probably be more helpful for parents with more than one child who do not need the care provider to be 'registered' for tax credit purposes. I am not, as yet, registered as a homecarer as I do really prefer to provide the care in my own home.

[BooBoo62]

Hi wobblyknicks, sorry I'm not close enough but any time you need a break, just give me a call. Yes I am on the Govs list and I have a website, not finished yet but getting there. I cannot advertise the service untill Ofsted have sent me my new registration cert but I love the idea of leaflet drop and have just made one to see how it looks. Not bad, I'd have me anyway lol.

Yes I would take sleepless babies, had lots of experience of those and don't have a problem. I worked nights for 20 years so very used to being up at odd hours lol. Yes I would take children with sleep problems and bedwetting and I would do it on an occassional basis too if there was enough demand to fill places on a regular basis.

Hi tigermoth,
Yes I see your point about more than one child. The problem with this is that there are only so many beds available and the price would be set with all beds filled to ensure a reasonable wage taking into account expenses such as insurance, equipment, activities, food etc as well as your time so offering a reduction for siblings could mean putting the price up a little overall to counter that loss, if you get my meaning. In the end, you would still be paying one way or another. I think the only way to offer reductions is if the beds were not full and you had the space to do that. Its definately somthing to seriously consider though, as you say, otherwise I might not get the business to begin with. Thanks for this, it's set me thinking again of how to overcome that area. As for emergancy cover, again, the problem is the limit to numbers. I must keep to within my registered numbers not just because its the law but sensibly to be able to provide the kind of quality service I would want myself so this would mean possible keeping one bed empty for such occassions. Again, that could mean loss of income. Hmmmmmmm, lots to think of here. How do you deal with these situations Goosey?

[BooBoo62]

Hi goosey,
Re the homecarer situation, It is something I've considered although I do prefare to work from home myself too. I do have a childminder friend who does this and cares for 2 girls overnight, mum is a nurse. Mum gets wftc for each child and my friend earns 250 for 3 nights work. So I guess this service is a lot cheaper.

[goosey]

Yes it certainly is! I wouldn't say no to £250 for three nights sleeping work either. Does your friend do housework and ironing too for her £250?!
Good luck with your leaflet drop. Another good idea is to write letters to all local businesses and deliver them enclosing business cards for them to give to their staff. Local care homes often employ local people and single parents who may need short notice overnight care. Also send letters to each ward sister at your local hospital.

[acnebride]

re advertising - maybe try contacting unions with high number of shift workers, e.g Unison, fire workers etc and get their advice on how best to contact. tho if they advise expensive ad in union newsletter, best not i guess!

[KateandtheGirls]

As one of the very few single parents who does have this sort of money, it would be something I would potentially be interested in on an occasional basis. (This is only hypothetical as I live in the US.) I'm not aware of any such service where I live. But if it existed I can imagine doing an overnight say once every month or two, just so I could get a decent night's sleep and sleep past 6:30am (something I dream about). I don't know how my girls would feel about it, or how well they would sleep. They would certainly need to spend a bit of time with you in your home before they stayed overnight.

It could definitely be a niche market. Good luck!

[BooBoo62]

Thank you all for the wonderful imput. I will be taking it all onboard and will certainly contact those people suggested as well as doing a leaflet drop. We are fortunate here that we have two local newspapers delivered free to every household and the cost for including leaflets is not to much so I might just do that too.

You have all come up with some excellant ideas and I'm really grateful.

Kateandthegirls, do a search for daycare in your area, there are a lot more American Daycare Providers who offer this service there. Also do check out various daycare websites even if they are not in your area, lots of them have link pages for other providers. Good luck in your search and thanks again to everyone.

[BooBoo62]

Oh, forgot to say re my friend who does Homecare, no, she doesn't do any work at all, just gets the girls to bed, up and dressed in the morning ready for school and gives them breakfast. Mum takes them to school. Great job if you can get it. I also remembered that the wftc suggested £300 per week for the 3 nights but mum thought that was too much and my freind was happy to take 250.00, so would I be lol :0

[ZolaPola]

the NHS in some parts of the country has been looking in to exactly this issue - out of hrs cover for nursing staff etc. suggest you contact the HR department of yr local NHS trust and ask to speak to the childcare co-ordinator (there should be one, but some trusts have been slow to appoint) - they might be able to help. also the excellent charity Daycare Trust - 020 7840 3350
or www.daycaretrust.org.uk should be v helpful if you explain what you're trying to do. hope it works out.