please help - alarming, dangerous incident at nursery

[distressed]

Dh has just phoned me to let me know about a very alarming incident he witnessed at our son's nursery this evening.

What happened was that he found one of ds's friends (aged 2) walking on the pavement outside the nursery. DH asked him where his mummy was - it turns out she wasn't around at all. He had somehow got out of the nursery all by himself. I dread to think what could have happened to him. It is all too easy to imagine that he might have walked out into the road and got run over.

Without going into too much detail, a number of things have concerned us about the nursery recently, most seriously (up to now) the failure to maintain statutory staffing ratios for 2yos in mixed classes with 3+yos. What happened today is a classic example of the types of risk posed by failure to maintain these ratios.

We have complained to the nursery as have other parents, with limited success.

So mumsnetters, can you please help me?

1. Am I overreacting?
   
2. Can I complain to Ofsted or the EY dept of the local authority?
   
3. How should we approach yet another complaint to the nursery on this issue? Threaten them with Ofsted, EY etc?
   
4. Should I start looking for alternative childcare immediately?
   
5. What other questions should I be asking myself?
   
   This is so upsetting. We have been very happy with the nursery up until the last 3m or so.
   
   Thank you all very much in advance.

[distressed]

I have changed my usual nickname for this.

[katierocket]

jesus - no you're not overeacting. that's horredous. Yes complain to ofsted and LA if they are not compliing with staffing ratios. what the hell did they say when DH took him back in the nursery?

If it was me I would probably look for other childcare - nursery or whatever but I know how hard a decision that can be if your ds is settled there. I wonder if the parents of the boy who got out were told about it?

[hana]

distressed -

1. not at all
   
2. yes I would def def complain to either (or both)
   
3. I would tell them what you saw - ask how it happened and ask to see whatever policy would cover this sort of thing.
   
4. if you aren't satisfied on how this incident is dealt with (and you already have concerns it seems) I would look for alternatives. YOu would never want to be in a 'why didn't I do something' scenario.
   
5. Ask for a meeting with the head of the nursery school, tell her how shaken up you are and what procedures they have in place for this thing NOT to ever happen again. At dd's nursery there is always a member of staff there to lock the door when you leave - they lock it when you arrive and you have to be unlocked out. The lock is also about at adult shoulder height.
   
   Oh, I'd be shaken up just as you are and really searching as to what to do. Hope you get some really good advice here.

[lars]

I know your not overreacting - lets face if you was looking after some else's child you would make sure there were not left to wander near the road/pavement outside. There could have been a serious accident. Staff ratio's are very strict when it comes to children infact I think you should inform the local authority- ACTION needs to be taken by someone, maybe yourself and the other parent.
I would also consider changing the nursery. This is terrible to have to leave your child and just hoping there are going be look after. There leaves a big question mark on the nursery they are failing the children they are paid to care for. Larsxx

[stamford]

You must complain and if necessary, take it up with Ofsted.

I feel so terribly guilty about something I didn't complain enough about. My dd (who was 4 months at the time) was having a terrible time at nursery. She was sick (vomiting, diarrheoa) all the time, her eczema had returned badly and she was losing weight. She becamse a fussy, unhappy child. I was back at work for around 3 months and in that time, although I was supposed to work a 4 day week I never worked more than 2 because she was so ill. In the end, I had to quit my job (even though I had everyone telling me that it would settle down and they all go through this phase of illness when starting nursery).

Anyway, one day I went in (my last week of work) and found out they had been giving her Sunshine Banana for breakfast - my dd is milk and egg allergic and of course, Sunshine Banana has milk in it. This had been the reason for her ill health and I had specifically asked early on in her illness if they had maybe accidentally given her milk (because her symptoms were so much like an allergic reaction).
I made a fuss but not a huge one because I was taking her out of nursery anyway.

Then that poor little boy died from a milk allergy after being fed exactly the same thing at the same chain of nurseries that my dd was at. I still feel guilty that I didn't make more of a fuss.

Letting a child out of the nursery is a HUGE security problem and they MUST sort it out.

[maisystar]

god no, you are not over reacting at all. a child was hit by a car in sheffield after getting out of nursery. i would report this to everyone i could and ensure that all parents whose children attend the nursery knew about it. i dont think i would want to leave my child in their care again. im not surprised your shaken.

[SEXGODDESS]

NO you're not making a fuss

YES do complain first thing in the morning

YES do tell the management/staff you have complained

DO tell the child's parents so they can deal with it as well.

I heard of a similar thing happening to someone through a mutual friend. I think passing pedestrian telephoned Police as they found the child (aged nearly 2) wandering towards a very busy main road on his own. The parents withdrew him immediately - don't know how the complaint went though.

[Freckle]

You must report this. This incident is a breach of their most fundamental duty, which is the safety of the children in their care. If you don't report it, how would you feel if it happened again and a child was injured or even killed?

At the very least the local authority or Ofsted will ensure that they change their practices to ensure it doesn't happen again.

[Hulababy]

Agree with the others. You must report and complain. And you must let the parents of the little boy know - surely by law the nursery would have to tell the parents??? Awful

[WideWebWitch]

Agree with Twiglett, outrageous. I'd complain loud and long too.

[suedonim]

Goodness me, yes of course you must complain. The same thing happened to ds1 when he was 3. I took him to playgroup and went home after doing some errand or other, only to find ds1 waiting outside the door for me. (And he had the cheek to ask "Where've you been?" He'd had to cross a wide road to get home. This was back in the 70's and there wasn't anyone to complain to then, beyond telling the playgroup. It makes my blood run cold to think what might-have-been.

[suedonim]

Sorry, the smiley isn't meant to be there.

[Slinky]

Distressed


You MUST complain to OFSTED - they govern the procedures/standards etc of nurseries.

I've copied this from the OFSTED site

"Complaining about day-care providers or childminders

Sometimes you may wish to contact us with concerns about a day-care provider or childminder. In such instances, call your Ofsted early years regional centre on 0845 601 4772. You will be asked for further details about your complaint, so you should be ready to give as much information as possible.

If you are a parent or carer with a child in the setting and you make a complaint we will send you a letter as soon as we have completed our investigation. This letter will include a summary of the complaint, how we investigated the concerns and any action we took or required the provider to take as a result of our investigation. We will send the same summary to the provider. We will ask them to make an entry in their complaints log, and also ask them to share this information with all other parents of children at the setting. We will not tell the provider your name.

If any other parent with a child in the setting at the time of the complaint asks for information about the complaint we will refer them initially to the provider. If they are reluctant to approach the provider we will, on proof that they had a child in the setting at the time of the complaint, give the summary of the complaint, but not the name of the person who complained."

How the hell did he get out???? At our nursery, ALL door handles throughout the nursery are at adult height - the main door is locked with a buzzer and CCTV cameras outside. The office overlooks the carpark.

I would contact OFSTED first thing in the morning.

[gemilou]

You should complain to as many differant people as possible to stop this sort of thing happening again

[tanzie]

This happened to us with DD1. My Dh turned up early to collect her from nursery and found her walking down the road on her own. He took her in and they hadn't even missed her and read the riot act. She had simply walked out of the front door which was left open. Next day he went to collect her and found her sitting on the side of the road on her own. She had apparently climbed out of a window, into the garden and over a high fence. The nursery teacher was only responsible for 4 children and again hadn't even noticed that one was missing (and she was only 2 and must have been gone forsome time!). DH complained again and was basically told "if you disciplined her better at home, this wouldn't happen." She didn't go back and we made very sure that the headmistress and as many people as possible knew why.

Complain to the nursery, to OFSTED, to whoever. They are putting children in danger.

[LadyMuck]

Sticking head up{}

Had same incident at playgroup last term: one of the grils got let out of the class before her mum appeared, and was wandering outside - thnakfully we're quite a way from the road, and several other mums spotted what was happening.

Manager immediately tightened the procedures: visibly and effectively. Children sit on a mat in the room and wait for their name to be called by teacher - all external doors are locked during p/group anyway. So even if you are int he room ds/d can't come to you until teacher calls their name and signs them out.

I'm mentioning this, because it gave me an insight into how the particular manager dealt with these issues. If I was unhappy with how she had handled it, or if there had still been the potential for a repeat occurence then I would have removed ds and complained to EVERYONE. Although it was serious I thought it was well handled.

That said, it does sound as if you have plenty of reservations already. Your complaints are being ignored by the manager. I would set them out once more in a letter to the nursery and then contact everyone else.

Good luck - I'm sorry: these things are so draining aren't they?

[distressed]

Hello everyone

Thanks for these comments. DH and I went to the nursery today to discuss the incident with the head. She told us additional control procedures will be put in place from today to prevent a similar incident happening again.

In terms of the ratios, she insists that they are being met, despite the perception of parents that they are not. I think the discrepancy arises from the fact that in a class of (say) 12 2yos, the nursery view would be that if one of the three members of staff assigned to that class is out of the room temporarily, that staff member still "counts" towards the ratio of 1:4, whereas from a parent's POV, a ratio of only 1:6 will be observed in the classroom. IMO, the staff members need to be physically present in a room of active toddlers in order to be able to satisfy the care and safety objectives that the ratios are designed to meet. We intend to complain to Ofsted and the Local Authority Children's Information Service about this issue.

One further thing, the front door is kept locked, with adult height handles. The little boy in question must have "tailgated" outside with an adult, most likely a parent. While this in no way excuses the nursery from their duty of care, I am dismayed to think that a fellow parent could have shown so little concern as to let an unaccompanied child out. It beggars belief.

In terms of looking for another childcare provider, we will start thinking of options and will keep a close eye on the situation at the nursery. If it doesn't noticeably improve soon, we will think seriously about moving him.

Thank you so much for these comments.

[janinlondon]

Distressed - did the head specify what measures they will be taking? Have you told any other parents about the incident? I am sure they (I!!!)would want to know!

[bossykate]

Yes and yes - I have emailed you via contact another talker.

[bossykate]

oh damn, that's torn it.

[SoupDragon]

distressed, I'm with the nursery manager when she says that staff temporarily out of the room count towards the staff ratio. It does, of course, depend on what she means by "temporarily" but in DSs nursery, the staff could be in the toilet, emptying a potty, getting food ready, answering the doorbell... these are all genuine temporary absences but it can mean that for the short space of time I or any other parent happens to be in the room, the staff ratios are short.

A child managing to "tailgate" an adult out is inexcusable though. DSs nursery has double doors to get out with a foyer in between so it's unlikely to happen there. I would admit that little children can be difficult to see if you're carrying another child or a 1st stage childseat though but not to the extent that one could follow you out without being spotted.

[dinosaur]

bossykate, sorry you are having to cope with this

just picking up on one point you make, about other parents letting a child follow them out - when DS1 went to his old "bad" nursery, it had a front door which led straight out onto an exceedingly busy road. The door was not "self-closing" - you had to give it a good bang when you left to close it firmly. Shockingly enough, we nearly always found it open when we were leaving after dropping DS off. I have to say that the dads seemed to be the biggest offenders in this regard.

[bossykate]

sd, i can accept that up to a point. but when it seems to parents that the ratios are frequently not observed, that makes me think the absences cannot be momentary, otherwise the perception would not be so persistent. i think it depends on the age of the kids also, e.g. would not be such an issue in the baby room, but toddlers are a different kettle of mischievous monkeys, no? anyway, i think the fact a child got out, means that there is (or has been) inadequate supervision.

[janinlondon]

BK - I have emailed you too through the Mumsnet team. I am in panic.