3 yr old says he doesn't like his nanny - help!

[phb]

Can anyone help me? (I'm new to talking on here but have been a passive participant for ages - I'm hoping to tap into all that wisdom out there!)

My 3 year old boy tells me consistently and earnestly when we are alone together that he doesn't like his nanny. She started with us about 6 months ago, after my previous nanny of over 2 years (whom my son had adored) returned to Australia with her husband. The new one seems a lovely girl and had fantastic references (I had been searching for 3 months and had interviewed about 20 others when I found her, and I was delighted to find her), and seems very good with him. He is perfectly happy to go to her in the mornings and seems to have an active, full, varied time with her.

I have tried to ask him what he doesn't like about her, but he just says that she isn't kind to him and she tells him to hurry up all the time. Although he can't express it, I think there's more to it than that, from the earnestness with which he talks about it. He is not a whinger generally and I am inclined to take him seriously, although of course I don't want to overreact. At first I thought it was simply attributable to him missing his old nanny, and the new one being a different type of personality, but we're 6 months on now and he's still saying that he doesn't like her.

I don't want to upset or offend her, and I don't want her to take it out on him for telling me, but it's really breaking my heart and I am going to have to discuss this with her.

Anyone been there? Any advice?

[robbie]

We had something similar, though not identical, with our twins at about age 2. They would say they didn't like their nanny every day when she arrived. Though i didn't think she was nearly as good as our first nanny I was pretty sure she was kind and well-meaning so perservered with her, thinking that they just didn't want me to leave. I have to say, though, it wasn't any fun - it's bad enough leaving your children when they're happy to be left - and it sort of undermined my confidence in her. After seven months or so of trying we agreed to let each other go and I found someone else who within days they were happier to be left with than the previous one. I had expected it to take much longer. In retrospect I wish I'd listened to my kids more - not because the nanny they didn't take to was bad, but they just didn't take to her and it caused everyone - her, me and them a lot of heartache. I think you know your boy and if you've given it a bit of time to settle and he still isn't happy, I'd think seriously about making a change. Chances are your nanny's not that happy too. Best of luck.

[jasper]

phb this must be really horrible for you. I wish I could offer experience based advice, but I can't, as I don't have a nanny, but I do have a three year old boy and I know how earnest they are !
Has he said to anyone else ( dad, grandparent, aunt) the same thing? Perhaps you could try to see if he could explain himself better to somebody else.
Is there anyone else he claims not to like?
My gut feeling is that I could not leave him with her but on the other hand it is not as if he appears unhappy when he is with her.
I think you ARE going to have to discuss this with her.
I hope you get lots of good advice from others here who have experience of this kind of thing.
Let us know how you get on, and good luck.

[phb]

Thank you Robbie and Jasper - Robbie what you say about listening to your children really struck a chord. We had another situation recently where I wasn't really listening properly to ds, then when I did I wished I had reacted sooner.

One complicating factor is that dh thinks she's fine and I'm overreacting. He thinks I'm obsessed with my son/motherhood/childcare and that I make problems for myself where none exist. All of which is totally unfair of course! (He is a good father but his relationship with ds is slightly semi-detached and he doesn't understand the intensity of a mother/child relationship.) He is adamant that we shouldn't upset her.

On the other hand, our very first nanny was an absolute nightmare (despite glowing references) and when I plucked up courage to get rid of her at the end of her probationary period, in the face of his virulent opposition, it was so definitely the right thing to have done I swore to follow my own instincts in future!

Yes Jasper, ds has also said the same thing to dh when they've been alone together - seriously enough for dh to mention it to me and not just brush it off, but ds didn't go into any further detail. There's no-one else he says he doesn't like (apart from one of the children in his nursery), which does make me inclined to take him fairly seriously.

You've both helped me to have the courage of my convictions - I'm going to discuss it gently and nicely with her today then see how it goes for a few weeks. Even if there's nothing really badly wrong, the situation isn't quite right, and that's enough of a reason to try to make it better. Thank you both!

[Bee]

Just a thought phb - does your son think that if your nanny leaves then you will stay at home and look after him? I speak from personal experience as my own son (who's 6) was really horrible to our au pair and after she had left he was dismayed to find that we would have to make new childcare arrangements, and that I wouldn't suddenly give up work.

This may not be in his mind, but its worth just considering..Good luck anyway (and I would always back your own judgement - just imagine how you would feel if there did turn out to be a major problem with the quality of her care and you had ignored your instincts)

[phb]

I wondered the same thing Bee - I mentioned to him that if we didn't have this nanny we'd have to get another one, which got no reaction. Part of me does wonder whether there's an element of manipulation going on - he's beginning to understand that he can have an effect on other people's actions - but overall I don't think this is a calculated campaign on his part. If only I could be a fly on the wall for a day or two!!

[phb]

Thanks Batters - I'm going to start off by asking her how she thinks it's going and asking some open questions - hopefully she'll open up and we might get to the bottom of whatever it is without me having to say he doesn't like her.

I did have the opportunity to watch them together back last November when I was off for a couple of weeks after an operation - at the time I was a bit disappointed that she wasn't very dynamic, but I didn't see anything "bad". I raised a couple of things with her gently, which she took well and she took my points on board.

I think I am slowly reaching the conclusion that although she is a very nice girl and a perfectly good nanny objectively, perhaps simply in personality terms she isn't right for my ds/us right now.

Batters, what did your friend do in the end? Did she discuss it with the nanny? Did she change nannies?

[reb]

I have had many nannies over the years for my four children, and feel quite strongly that you should listen to your son, and get a different nanny. It is quite possible that this one has a rather sharp impatient manner, particularly when you're not around, and obviously this doesn't suit him. If he says she isn't kind to him and is telling him to hurry up all the time, then I would accept that he is telling you the truth. Perhaps this is the other side of the "active, full, varied time". If the nanny is bored, she may be filling the day with activities for her benefit, not his. If you ignore him on this issue(after such a consistent and lengthy period) then I think you are at risk of losing his trust and confidence in you. In my view the only course is to get another nanny. I don't think that talking to this one about the problem will help, unless it is part of a "why you're going" talk. A nanny's manner is not something that she would find easy or be motivated to change. Talking about it also won't help the relationship between her and your son - in fact I think it is likely to make things worse for him . Good luck - I'm sure there is a better nanny out there for your family!

[TigerMoth1]

PHb, I agree with the advice you've been given. Listen to your son, trust your instincts and don't be afraid to let this nanny go. After six months, any problems are not due to settling in.

All I can add is this: My son has had a variety of child care arrangments. Never a nanny, but various childminders and care at playgroups and nurseries. As his speech improved, his opinions about his care were quite revealing: At 5 years old he could remember who cared for him when he was a less fluent 3 year old. He was able to tell me exactly what he liked and didn't like about the care. There was one temporary childminder in particular who he did not like. At 5 years he could look back and explain why. She was caring for him when he was three and a half, but at the time he was too young to express himself properly.

[phb]

An update - in case anyone who commented sees this and is interested!

After some discussion with the nanny as to what might be going on with ds, it was mutually and amicably agreed that for whatever reason (and probably no fault on either side) things just hadn't clicked and weren't working, and nanny decided to move on.

We have someone else now who spent the day with us on Saturday and started properly yesterday, and ds is an entirely different child with her. They were playing a game yesterday evening and he told me to go away because they needed some privacy!! Some mothers might have been offended, but it filled my heart with joy after months of no enthusiasm whatsoever on his part for his nanny. I have remembered once again what a difference it makes to your whole outlook on life, and even dealing with totally unrelated problems such as work issues, to be confident in your childcare arrangements.

Heartfelt thanks to all who responded for your support and helping me to get here. (And to anyone in a similar or parallel situation - follow your instincts!!)

[Joe1]

phb, pleased everything is now all ok, a relief for you.

[Marina]

phb, glad to hear things worked out right for all of you. Thanks for the update.

[jasper]

phb I am glad this has worked out well for you and your son.
Thanks for letting us know about this particular happy ending/beginning

[phb]

Over toast this morning as I was just getting ready to leave the house ds announced (having just welcomed new nanny enthusiastically and told her all about his weekend): "I don't like [new nanny], I want a new nanny"

Concrete evidence, in case I'd ever doubted, of his manipulative nature!! Fortunately his matter of fact tone of voice made clear he didn't really mean it, and new nanny took it well. And the fact that we burst out laughing will have made it clear to him that we weren't going to take him seriously on this!

You've got to admire his cheeck, when I think of the agonies I've been through on this...!

[Marina]

Oh, phb, the little PICKLE Thank goodness the nanny thought it was funny too.
Our son was looked after by my chic and childless sis last week and the little fiend (2 years 8 months, used to walking longish distances for a child his age) made her CARRY him home from the shops - about 200 metres - because he "felt tired". He really saw her coming.

[bells2]

Phb we have the opposite problem to you - our son loves his nanny while we are less than enamoured. She borrowed the car on Saturday to have lunch with a friend and returned it with a panel badly bashed in due to her crap parking. This is the second similar incident in 2 years although the first was during working hours. She obviously feels very bad about it but has made no offer to contribute towards the repair and has today responded by avoiding me like the plague and has not apologised for the car (although I have tried to be friendly as normal).

Our problem with her is that while the quality of childcare is excellent, she almost goes out of her way not to do anything for us. She is also fantastically clumsy having broken a huge number of things, ruined tablecloths etc, all of which add up to probably around £500 in costs to us to mend/ replace. I could go on and on but don't want to get petty.

It is getting me down as while our son adores her, she is extremely awkward to deal with and I get very nervous if I have to say anything to her which could be remotely interpreted as criticism, however mild.

Basically if it were up to me, I would give up work but my husband isn't keen on this. What would others do? I am very very reluctant to replace her as our son is happy and she does a great job with him. But, she is far from ideal from our perspective and I get depressed about it.

[phb]

LOL Marina! Ds did similar to my (also chic and childless) sister last week - walking down the street: "I'm hungry and thirsty" - 30 seconds later: "oh look there's starbucks, let's have a biscotti!" She fell for it.

Bells 2 what a horrid situation for you, it must be very stressful. I can sympathise as we had a similar(ish) situation 3 years ago with our very first nanny. She was great with ds - endlessly patient, played for hours, spent ages making up all sorts of interesting (!) purees, taking him to all sorts of different activities, got him into a good routine etc etc, but she was really horrible to me and ignored how I wanted things done (eg she gave him apple juice repeatedly - at 4months old - although I said clearly 4 times in all I wanted him to have just water, she also got aggressively cross with me for giving him milk in the middle of the night when he was genuinely hungry, she would try to make sure he was asleep when I got home from work etc etc). Overall, she saw him as her child rather than mine. In retrospect I should have heard sirens and seen flashing lights when she had admitted at interview to having a yearning need for her own child. She was so consistently rude to me that I found myself dreading going home in the evenings, which I now find absurd.

I really struggled with what to do (dh thought she was great, didn't see the problem and thought that it was all just a problem in my head arising from inner conflict at leaving my child!) - although unlike your circumstances she hadn't been with us long enough for ds to become attached, it was clear to me that she was great with him and that he would flourish with her.

Eventually I reached the conclusion that in employing a nanny my purpose was not only to look after ds's interests but also to facilitate the whole balance of life generally. She was making me unhappy and that wasn't good for me, or, I reasoned, dh or ds or our life as a family generally. Although she was our first nanny and therefore I didn't have experience of anyone else, I felt that there had to be someone out there who would work much better for us as a family. So - against dh's virulent opposition - I let her go after her probationary period. Our next nanny was a fantastic Australian girl who we all loved and who stayed with us for over 2 years, so in our circumstances it was the right thing to have done.

I know what you mean about not being petty, and no nanny out there would be 100% perfect, but this is clearly more than that. You're obviously unhappy and that can't be good for your son or the rest of your family. I've just recently remembered (having experienced it then for the first time) what an absolutely enormous difference it makes, to ALL aspects of life, getting unsatisfactory childcare arrangements sorted out. It is an upheaval to change arrangements and it takes time and energy, but when you make a bright and happy new start, you feel like a new person who could conquer the world! I know it's harder for you in that your son is very attached to her, but presumably she would move on naturally at some point anyway? And aren't you on maternity leave at the moment? (sorry if I'm getting confused and you're not) - if so might it be a good time to have a changeover, while you're around to hand over?

What doesn everyone else think? The message I got, loud and clear, from the collective wisdom when I was having my recent dilemma was to follow my instincts - having done that twice now I do absolutely think it's the right thing to do. [You're paying her to make your life better, not to depress you.]

Bon courage. Please let us know what you decide to do.

[Marina]

Bells, she really is problematic, isn't she, despite the good standard of care she gives your son. I've never been in a similar position and frankly admire anyone who can work effectively with a nanny, one-to-one (including the nannies themselves, BTW), there are so many pitfalls to avoid. I think phb's advice about part of the nanny's role being to make you feel comfortable and supported is so true. I moved from a childminder who undermined me and showed a lack of empathy with my baby to a nursery where the staff see it as so important to establish a good relationship with the parents too. It transformed my outlook on being a parent working outside the home although I would still, like you, pack it in like a shot if we could afford the loss of income.
If your nanny is costing you extra money on top of the presumably good salary she is paid (I bet the car repairs will be expensive) and making you feel bad about getting your own way in your own home, then that is just not fair on you.
I would have thought that you were a wonderful employer, you deserve a less hard time than this. I know of employers who deduct ANY breakage or damage from the nanny's salary, not that I think that is the way to go in general!
What about nursery? Do you think there is any scope to add more nursery time to your son's days, if he is happy there, and once she is more "phased out" from his day, choose then to make changes, maybe? He is entering a period in his development when it is very beneficial to extend his circle of adult contacts. And it would also enable you to appoint someone new before your daughter has spent too much time with her and bonded very closely.
Ask yourself, do you want her working for you until your daughter starts primary school? Without you having to make all the running, is she likely to change her attitude to you in that time? She sounds as though she is very well placed. A sweet little boy to dote on, a dear little baby girl coming up, and kind, generous employers.
Good luck and let us know what you decide. Sorry it's a long post but I feel you are having such a horrid time.

[Bugsy]

Oh Bells, what a dilema. I've read some of your previous posts about nanny disatisfaction. I think the advice offered by others about following your instinct is bang on. How old is your ds now? Could you start phasing him into nurseries for some mornings or afternoons and then consider recruiting a new nanny? I am sure that there are lots of other willing nannies out there who your son would grow to adore too - afterall this is the situation you'd be in if your current nanny gave you her notice.
Do you really, really want to stay at home 24/7 & not go back to work at all? That is a huge move for someone who has enjoyed a pretty high powered career (and income) up to now?
I know that I couldn't bear to employ someone in such a personal capacity who seemed to have so little respect for me and my life, however much they adored my son. Do you think in a few years time, you'd look back and regret how much you endured from her? If you think you would, then she probably ought to go?
Sorry this is a bit of a ramble, but I'm typing as I think - shows the sorry state of my mind!

[bells2]

Thankyou so much for the kind posts - they are much appreciated. The problem with nursery is that both hubby and I start work at 7am. Even if we could find a nursery open at that time, I just don't think I could manage to breastfeed the baby, get them both dressed and delivered there and still be on time for work. We have considered employing somebody to come in for 2 hours every morning and deliver them to nursery but for 2 children that would work out more expensive than a nanny and also complicates things.

I think I know that it is time to say goodbye - small things such as never opening the front door for me even if she is directly the other side and I am struggling with a baby and a ton of shopping bags to this morning's effort of walking straight into my bedroom at 7.30 to remove my son with whom I was having a lovely cuddle while feeding the baby suggest that the balance just isn't right. Sadly the things she values (such as sterilised toys and ironed underwear) don't really match up to the things we value. I would never ask or expect her to pay towards the car damage (estimate £600) but I would appreciate an apology and perhaps an offer of babysitting on Friday or weekends to make amends.

Unfortunately though, I am heading back to work in 6 weeks time and fear I have left it too late to do anything now. You are right Bugsy - I don't want to give up work all together. But quite frankly when you take into account the expense, hassle and emotional drama, it does sometimes appear as an attractive option.

[sml]

Hi Bells - the opening the door situation clicks with me - that was one of the tricks played by a previous child carer with me. For her, it was one of her ways of showing her resentment towards me. Breaking things, supposedly by accident, was another such trick. It's hard to say how much of this behaviour came out of her subconscious, and how much was deliberately thought out. It took me ages to cotton on to the fact that, in her case, some of it was not accidental.

I have found that my children are surprisingly adapatable to change. I've always worried about replacing a stable situation with something worse, but it has in fact, never been a problem.

Hope you manage to sort this out one way or another!

[Bugsy]

Hmmm, Bells, do I detect a certain (very understandable) unwillingness to grab this particular bull by the horns??? You could get quite a long way to resolving this particular nightmare in 6 weeks. The nursery suggestion was not to replace the nanny but just to dilute your ds's time with her. What I was thinking was a 9-12 sort of nursery that she could take him to & leave him, so that when a replacement arrived he had some continuity in his day.
I know I sound a bit bossy here, but I was in a similar situation once with a really awful employer. I loved my job but my employer was intolerable & I dithered around for ages getting more and more miserable. Then one day I just realised that life was too short to put up with such a miserable situation and I knew that I would regret every moment that I spent working for this ghastly woman & I took action. I was made to work out every agonising second of my 3 month notice period but it was worth it. The feeling of relief & freedom when I left is one I'll never forget and it has really affected the way I make all my decisions now.
So there, a personal revelation to urge you not to put up with a situation you are not happy with. I know your circumstances are more complicated but don't live to regret inaction.

[bells2]

You are right Bugsy - I think I need you to come around here and give me a good talking to!!. He already goes to a nursery 3 mornings a week (one of which is on my day off). He is soon to go up to 5 although our Nanny is vehemently opposed to it.You have spurred me on and I shall tackle my husband on the subject tonight.

[phb]

Bells, just to say that when I was looking for our current nanny, I registered with the agencies on a Friday, spoke to her on the phone the Saturday, interviewed her on the Sunday and offered her the job that evening.

It has in the past taken me weeks to find one, but it can sometimes all fall into place very quickly. Also, I'm not sure what it's like in your area at the moment but in my area (SW London) I was told that there ware lots more nannies than jobs available at the moment. It might be worth just having a word with the agencies and seeing what they say.