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Gifted and talented

Is this very bright or more? sorry its long!!

112 replies

GivemeBaileysDailyandImhappy · 01/01/2009 19:41

Thanks in advance to anyone who takes time to give an opinion.
I have written about my dd to clarify what she can do at 2.11yrs so I can remember once she grows up and so I don't look back with rose tinted glasses iyswim.
She seems to know much more than children she goes to nursery with of the same age.
Eliza aged 2.11 years - Development.

Speech and language

Eliza speaks fluently using link words in sentences such as and, because, incase etc. She speaks in sentences of up to 15 words such as ?I need to take my baby upstairs to bed because she is getting very tired.? Eliza now rarely mixes past , present and future tense verbs. She is articulate and descriptive about objects she sees around her and regularly comments on their size, shape, colour, texture and general appearance. An example of this would be while in the car she spent time looking at houses saying ?that?s a big house, bigger than our house and its pink!? Another example is that she noticed that her scooter was different from her friends because it has 2 wheels whereas hers has 3 and also notices and vocalises similarities such as both scooters are pink. She uses words in context and shows a good sense of humour. An example of this was when she was asked by her Grandma what Santa was bringing her, she replied ?a scooter?, when asked what Santa was bringing Lucy she laughed and replied ?hair!? She is able to verbalise problem solving plans. An example of this was when she noticed the telephone was missing from its charger saying ?oh no, where?s the telephone gone, we might have left it at Tims?, to which her Dad replied ?and we won?t be able to telephone him to tell him to bring it back!?. Eliza said ?noo? with emphasis, but then without prompting thought of the solution and said ?we will have to use your phone.? meaning mobile phone. Eliza has the understanding to know that some words have the same meaning such as loads, lots, tons, many and will use them interchangeably while speaking. She understands that certain words rhyme such as frog, log, dog and will regularly change sentences to be funny i.e. instead of saying who are you? She will say ?poo par poo?? while laughing. She is able to sing nursery rhymes most of the way through and remembers the plot to all her story books and DVDs, asking to skip to specific favourite bits of the story or film.

Understanding

Eliza has excellent understanding and carries out tasks when asked and uses her initiative whenever she can. She has a grasp of how co-operation can help situations. She often puts crockery, cutlery, dirty washing into appropriate places and rarely needs reminding to put rubbish into the bin. She understands and applies advice to all situations, such as being aware of her sister in relation to leaving small toy parts within her reach, shutting stair gates after her if she goes through them. If she sees Lucy with anything small she removes it from her or tells me. She is also mindful of Lucy getting hold of toys with sharp edges and that they could cut her and that small objects could choke her. Eliza also understands her physical limits and will ask to go to bed if she feels tired, says when she is hungry, thirsty and is able to vocalise feelings such as sadness, happiness, anger, feeling unwell and why. She understands connections between people, places, events and will talk about past events either by saying ?when I was a little girl? which is a long way in the past or ?yesterday? which is her recent past. She understands that circumstances change. An example being that we went to Honeybrook farm and it was closed. I explained this to her and she was happy enough with the explanation and that we were going somewhere else instead. On the way home she said ?Honeybrook might be open now.? We have been to places in the past that weren?t open because we were too early so she had made that connection and assumed it might open later. Eliza also understands the connections of family for example that her uncle Lee is my brother, her aunty Kerry is her dads sister and that her Grandma is my mum etc. Eliza rarely needs telling anything more than once for it to be understood and later applied to another situation.

Creativity and imagination

Eliza is able to colour and paint using the tripod grip to hold pencils, pens and paint brushes. She draws using precise movement and can identify certain marks she makes such as ?oh? ?curly c? , ?l? and ?x?. Eliza will say what she is drawing. Eliza understands how to use scissors and is able to cut across a page as opposed to lots of individual cuts and is learning how to cut out. She knows that she has to wash her paint brush between colours if she doesn?t want them to mix and painted a pot piggy bank, the only assistance being to turn the pig to reach unpainted areas. She concentrated on this task for 30 mins until every bit was painted and took great care not to overlap the different coloured paints. She is able to make pictures with fuzzy felts that have significance and can describe what is happening in the picture. Her imagination is mainly with her dolls and playing mum at the moment, this includes breast feeding her and changing sides! She has now moved on to bottle feeding her since I stopped breast feeding 3mths ago. She often parks her pram in the kitchen saying ?baby is asleep? and shushes me if I go into the kitchen incase I wake her up saying ?Be quiet, don?t wake her up!? in hushed tones. Eliza also enjoys music and pretends to play the mouth organ, recorder, piano and tambourines. She also enjoys singing into her microphone. Eliza enjoys dressing up and acts according to her costume I.e. if she is dressed as a nurse she gets out her Drs bag to go with it and pretends to take my temperature, listen to my heart etc and asks where I hurt. She then pretends to give me medicine, saying I am hot.
She is able to stick and glue using the appropriate amount of glue and choosing her pieces to stick carefully. She also sticks logically for example when making a photo frame at halloween she only stuck pieces to the edge of the frame on the card and then decided with logic that sticking inside would not make a difference to being able to put the photo inside and began sticking inside. She is able to peel tiny stickers, stick them the right way up and not overlap them. She is also able to put hamma beads onto the boards although she doesn?t have enough interest in these yet to concentrate for long, maybe 10-15mins at most.

Cognition and Problem Solving/Maths

Eliza can rote count to 15. She understands that if an object is added or taken away that the number will be different and is able to recount objects to see how many are left. I.e if she had 5 grapes and I asked her to hide 2 and then asked how many where left she would recount and tell me 3. She knows that she needs to count objects only once and I am in the process of teaching her to put her finger on each or move them to the side so she knows they have been counted. Eliza will often see a car or something and comment on the colour and then see another of the same colour saying ?that?s 2 blue cars? etc. She is starting to recognise some numbers and enjoys doing puzzles with numbers on them. Since she knows her colours well and is developing her matching skills with jigsaws she now understands to look for pieces with colours that match and shapes/shades that match. She knows basic shapes such as oval, circle, square, triangle, diamond, star, rectangle and recognises shapes in every day objects. For example she commented that the TV was a rectangle, she wanted a triangle shaped shortbread biscuit or a round one. Since becoming interested in jigsaws in the past few months her problem solving has improved further and she can now complete 30 piece puzzles with minimal imput. She uses the picture on the box to look for which piece goes where. She was able to recognise a car identical to my friends by its shape and shade of colour, even though it was completely out of context and I hadn?t noticed until she pointed it out! Eliza has been practicing taking turns at games such as the young version of kerplunk involving taking leaves on sticks from a container and trying not to let the bees fall, after the 2nd game she understood the rules and took turns with some prompting to not jump ahead. Eliza also enjoys making ?necklaces? from plastic shapes threaded onto shoe laces.

Physical ability

Eliza is able to run, jump, hop, scoot, trampoline, swim with just a float suit and is fearless in water. She can climb stairs and descend stairs without holding on and can carry multiple things up and down them. She can climb all levels at soft play and is happy to go to the top level.
During awake time Eliza is fully toilet trained, however she shows no sign of becoming dry at night time and pullups are usually wet in the morning. She does not pass stools during her sleep though.
Eliza is able to dress herself 85%, she is able to put on knickers, skirts, socks, top and some dresses but needs assistance with buttons, belts and laces. She is able to put on shoes, trainers and wellies. She is able to undress herself with the exception of getting her second arm out of her sleeve and undoing buttons and belts. She is sometimes able to put on her coat and at other times struggles.
She is able to cut with a knife when prompted and eats well with a spoon and fork rarely spilling any. However, since the introduction of finger foods for her sister she leans towards the lazy option of using her fingers to copy her.

Social ability

Eliza mixes well with other children and prefers the company of older children. She enjoys playing hide and seek and understands how to hide without being seen I.e. in the wardrobe, under her bed etc. She enjoys playing games with us and will ask to play whatever she wants to do. If what she wants is accessible she will take the initiative to go and get it out.
Eliza has been bad tempered for the last few months and prone to tantrums and unexpected outbursts. This has been brought about by the arrival of her sister and possibly by the need for more stimulation, as I feel she has been deprived of lots of my time and interaction since the birth of her sister. I believe she has become bored of her toys and appears to be behaving better since getting puzzles to do for Christmas. She now has things to occupy her that require thought, which have been lacking. I feel her behaviour will improve more when she starts pre-school in January where she will be stretched more mentally and socially. She still asks after children who I minded who left in February and says she misses them. She tells us she loves us. Her behaviour at nursery is impeccable according to her keyworker.

Below is a framework from a five year old expectation development chart. I have deleted things that Eliza cannot do and left the things she is capable of now at 2.11 years.

SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL DEVELOPMENT
invents games with simple rules
organizes other children and toys for pretend play
can take turns and share, but doesn't always want to
expresses anger and jealousy physically
carries on conversations with other children and adults
uses "bathroom words" to get attention , uses poo lots to try to shock.
sometimes can be very bossy
likes to try new things and take risks
likes to make own decisions
notices when another child is angry or sad - more sensitive to feelings of others
prefers company of 1 or 2 children at a time.
likes to feel grown up; boasts about self to younger, less capable children, constantly tells her sister she can?t do things as she is too little or too young.
good understanding of right and wrong
plays contentedly and independently without constant supervision
Will watch a film from start to finish commenting on what is happening and the feelings of the characters such as happy, sad, scared etc.
takes turns and shares (sometimes)
understands and respects rules - often asks permission . will ask to play or get something out if it involves mess such as painting or drawing and cutting.
understands and enjoys both giving and receiving
enjoys collecting things , leaflets.
sometimes needs to get away and be alone , often goes to play upstairs alone.
can understand relationships among people and similarities and differences in other families . Understands that her friend now has a sister like she does and talks about how her friend will help her mummy with her sister
seeks adult approval
sometimes critical of other children and embarrassed by own mistakes , says ?I?m silly? when she makes mistakes.
has a good sense of humor, and enjoys sharing jokes and laughter with adults
PHYSICAL DEVELOPMENT
able to dress self with little assistance
Attempts to skip
throws ball overhead
catches bounced balls, inconsistently though. Often drops them.
Now has a balance bike but is unsure as it is new, rides on her scooter
balances on either foot for 5-10 seconds
uses a fork well and is learning to use a knife
cuts on a straight line with scissors
left or right hand dominance is established , right hand dominant.
walks down stairs, alternating feet without using a handrail
jumps over low objects
can run, gallop, and attempt to forward roll
Can run on tiptoe
Attempts to perform dance steps
Can copy some shapes and letters
INTELLECTUAL DEVELOPMENT
understands about 13,000 words
uses 5-15 words in a sentence
likes to argue and reason; use words like "because"
knows most colours including peach, cream, turquiose, gold, silver, grey
able to memorize address but only the town where she lives.
understands that stories have a beginning, middle, and end
able to remember stories and repeat them
understands that books are read from left to right, top to bottom
enjoys jokes and being silly talking in made up words
draws pictures that represent animals, people, and objects, however, they don?t look like the objects represented
can place objects in order from shortest to tallest
can understand and use comparative terms like big, bigger, or biggest
sorts objects by size
identifies some letters of the alphabet and a few numbers (if taught)
understands "more," "less," and "same"
counts up to 10 objects
recognizes categories ("These are all animals; these are all toys.")
understands before and after, above, and below
has good attention span and can concentrate well , up to 30 minutes on a task she enjoys.
interested in cause and effect
can understand time concepts like yesterday, today, and tomorrow as well as morning, afternoon and night time.


Eliza is also able to use hypothetical thinking and suggest what might happen in a theoretical situation. If you say for example ?what would happen if the car drove on our side of the road in the opposite direction and not on the other side of the road?? she would answer with ?we would crash and we would get hurt/would die?. If you asked her ?what would happen if we didn?t strap lucy into the pram?? she would answer ?she would fall out.? Sometimes she will say ?I don?t know? and then go and think about it and later give an answer.

If you got this far many thanks.

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GivemeBaileysDailyandImhappy · 01/01/2009 20:07

bump. Anyone?

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Umlellala · 01/01/2009 20:13

Have ony skimmed, didn't want this to go unanswered. She sounds happy and bright, well done! Enjoy her!

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mrsgboRingOutTheOld · 01/01/2009 20:14

I am intrigued as to how you worked out your DD has a vocabulary of 13000 words - please tell me you didn't keep count?

TBH, I think there are very many MNers whose children would fit your DD's description. She definitely sounds bright. She also sounds like quite a well-behaved and adult-orientated child, which makes you and her nursery carers more likely to observe behaviours in her which seem grown up beyond her years.

If you are really concerned about something, then I expect there are professionals you can contact for an opinion, but I honestly think you should question what you would do with a more detailed assessment. What benefit would it be to her or anyone else to apply a "gifted" label to your DD at this stage?

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stillenacht · 01/01/2009 20:14

Err how do you know she understands 13,000 words?! Blimey

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osborne · 01/01/2009 20:18

sounds normal, nothing spectacular. my two eldest could do this and more by same age. sorry! their friends who couldn't have all caught up by about 4.

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Dragonbrandybutter · 01/01/2009 20:19

Sorry, but it's not that interesting to strangers and you do sound more like her health visitor than her mum here.

It's lovely to see that you are noticing these things and really i'm not criticizing you, she sounds great and like umlellala said well done.

But bare in mind that many people won't read this, and you may even get a tincy bit flamed. Don't worry, it's all part of mumsnet. Get your hard hat on.

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DingdongmerrilyonDOO · 01/01/2009 20:22

No flaming.But hugely impressed at your record keepingShe sounds fab...enjoy.

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MrsMerryHenry · 01/01/2009 20:22

Sorry, there's SO much content in your OP that I really can't be bothered to read through it all! However she sounds bright, yes - perhaps similar to my DS and another friend's DD who are slightly younger (i.e. they will prob be similar to your DD when they're her age).

Great to keep track of how she's doing, however you really shouldn't focus excessively on the 'is she brighter than others?' question - firstly because you'll inadvertently turn into a hothousing maniac, which will adversely affect her social and emotional development; and secondly because most children level out by age 3 (I realise she's not far off this) and you'll be able to work this out more effectively with educationalists as time goes on.

Whatever you do, if she does turn out to be very bright, for her own sake please do not EVER let her be fast-tracked at school into higher age groups. This will leave her an emotional and social misfit. I say this as a psychology graduate. It is bonkers to focus purely on intellectual development and neglect every other essential part of a human's life, which is what happens when kids go to uni at 14. They frequently express regrets precisely because they never have an opportunity to learn to 'be normal'.

Got to go - laptop battery running out!

Best of luck!

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Ronaldinhio · 01/01/2009 20:23

she sounds great and very normal

not so sure about you though!!!!!

enjoy her and stop studying her...for what end?

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stillenacht · 01/01/2009 20:24

agree Dragonbrandybutter

It looks like a HV report - did you as a mum write this?? OMG.

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thatsnotmymonster · 01/01/2009 20:27

My ds could do all that at about 2yrs 4mths and he is bright but not amazingly so. He could jump etc at 28mths and could do about 20 animal sounds on command before he was a year old.

My dd who has been quite slow to develop in many ways can now do most of that and she is 2yrs 5mths. She doesn't recognise letters yet but she can do most of the other stuff. She could only say 'ta' at 21 mths.

I'm sorry I think your dd sounds lovely and it is amazing what they know and can do but it is all fairly normal. Every parent is proud of their dc's and it is good that we are!

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SnowOfHands · 01/01/2009 20:30

She sounds happy and chatty. I would say she's bright and has enjoyed being talked to by adults but not remarkably bright. Meaning, I think she falls into the parameters of completely normal as opposed to in need of any adjusted and specific attention and/or help.

Just enjoy her, by all means jot things down about her but don't measure her against arbitrary scales that at this moment in time are irrelevant to her little and happy life.

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TheFallenMadonna · 01/01/2009 20:31

What are you asking exactly?

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simpson · 01/01/2009 20:31

My DS (now 3.4) was doing pretty much all of the things your DD does at the same age.

My advice would be as everyone else has said just enjoy her and chill

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ilikeyoursleeves · 01/01/2009 20:32

OMG. It's very impressive that you have taken the time to observe your DD and take notes but as someone else said, you sound like you are her HV and that she is under continual assessment! I hope that you are spending lots of time enjoying her too and not sitting taking notes all the time- I keep a monthly journal for my DS with what he's up to but I like to do it as a fun thing to give to him when he's older, more focus on photos, stickers, and recording bits and bobs but nothing OTT.

Relax and enjoy, childhood is there to be enjoyed, not assessed. Sorry I don't mean to sound harsh, that's not my intention, it just comes across as a continual professional assessment rather than a mummy just enjoying her DD!

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wheresthehamster · 01/01/2009 20:32

lol Ronald! Agree. My dds were all like this - dd1 also played the recorder and read music at 3 (I thought she was EXTREMELY gifted and never tired of telling everyone), BUT although they are above average they are far from special.

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Heated · 01/01/2009 20:33

Are you asking if she is gifted?

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snowleopard · 01/01/2009 20:34

She sounds bright and like she gets a lot of stimulation, activities and input and adult attention, so she's learned to do and understand a lot of things.

But - not flaming you, but - I'd be a bit concerned that you are focusing on her abilities to an excessive extent. I don't think it would be great for her growing up feeling everything she does and achieves is being monitored, recorded and analysed in such detail. She may not be aware of it now but she would become aware of it eventually and it could make her feel really pressured, even if it's not meant to, and make her feel that she only gets approval and interest from you for doing stuff, IYSWIM.

If it's not like that at all I apologise, but that is what I thought about your OP.

(I'm assuming the 13,000 words is a typo! That sounds like the average vocab of an adult english speaker.)

Another point is that what you see her friends/nursery classmates doing will not be the full picture of them. I think my DS is bright in some ways - he's very articulate, creative and sensitive. But the snapshot that a friend or another mum might see is more likely to be him being a bit shy, seeming quiet and reserved, or possibly having a strop, etc. Other people don't get the full detail of the interactions and expressions that I have with him on a daily basis. And I imagine I don't see everything that their DC can do either, because they're most likely to "perform" when they're at home and relaxed.

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Yurtgirl · 01/01/2009 20:35

Keep this 'report' on your dd - It will be fascinating to read in 10 years time!

But for now put it away and enjoy her as she is

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GivemeBaileysDailyandImhappy · 01/01/2009 20:40

Thank you all for your opinions I really value your thoughts. Sorry it does seem like a report but it was just the most logical way of setting it out. Like I said I did it to remember, as since having my dds I have asked my mum questions about when I did things and she could never tell me.
No I haven't counted all her words, but I speak to her using the same language I use with older children and she understands everything I say iyswim, so I believe it is in the region of 13,000 which is expected of a normal 5yo.
I don't want a label for her, I'm just interested.

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Quattrocento · 01/01/2009 20:42

I'm really impressed at your record keeping and your diligence.

In answer to your question, and being brutally honest, this doesn't sound "very bright or more". You did ask. Your DD's development sounds normalish to me. My DD was a fair bit ahead of this at around 3, my DS was a fair bit behind.

Children develop at different rates and what matters is that she is clearly loved to bits.

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Sycamoretree · 01/01/2009 20:45

Not your first and only child by any chance? Blimey, I'm more impressed that you have enough time in the day to write and observe all that - not that I've read it, must me the longest post I've ever seen in MN history!

Enjoy your DD - and take heed of that book THE OBSERVATIONS!

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GivemeBaileysDailyandImhappy · 01/01/2009 20:47

Thanks for your post snowleopard. I completely agree that she does get lots of stimulation and activities etc and am 100% in agreement that most of her learning is through these, which is certainly not gifted imo, just bright with a good memory iyswim.
I am interested because it was commented on by the HV at 2yo that she was advanced in all areas.
I certainly don't just give her attention when she is doing, although obviously she gets lots of praise when she does things and learns new things.

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GivemeBaileysDailyandImhappy · 01/01/2009 20:48

No I have 2 dds dd1 2.11yo and dd2 9mths

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noonki · 01/01/2009 20:49

she sounds like a lively and bright little girl, who obviously has had a lot of parental input. But not 'gifted and talented' particularly

but please don't over judge or analyse her she will end up feeling watched and have too high expectations placed on her.

I could read toddler books by aged 3. I'm no genius but my parents put in a lot with flashcards etc....by school age I was raised a year which socially was a bit of a disaster and then brought down again as they were worried about the social side. I then found school really dull and easy and was quite naughty and probably not that happy.

I'm not saying this will be your daughter but it is something to think about

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