Advice needed

[Earlybird]

I am loathe to post under this topic as I'm not sure my issue belongs, and so many posters get a rough ride here, but I need advice , so here goes.....Anyone inclined to snipe, please find amusement elsewhere.

DD (almost 7) is a bright spark, and academically able. She has historically been near the top of her class (if not top), grasps concepts quickly, works with speed/accuracy, etc. Over the past few years, several parents with 'gifted' children have commented that I should have dd tested to assess her abilities. To be honest, it wouldn't have occured to me to test her as she's clever, but not in a 'spooky genius' sort of way.

This past summer, we moved to America. The academic system here is very different as children start 'serious' school later. There is also a strong pattern of parents choosing to hold children back a year - not sure if it's to help with maturity, to gain better results or other reasons. Consequently, dd is close to the youngest in her current class (maybe is the youngest).

I met with her teacher a few months ago to express concern about how easy dd was finding the work - who knows how much is down to natural 'brain power' and how much is thanks to an English education. Her teacher was very responsive, and has set dd some more challenging work, while keeping her in a group of her peers.

The teacher also suggested that I have dd tested for entry into a 'gifted student' program that requires a teacher recommendation and test results for admission. DD was tested, and yesterday I received notification that she was accepted into the program. (Note: the assessment lasted about an hour, so not the full battery of IQ and other tests that earn the official 'gifted and talented' label.)

Now my dilemma: I have been encouraged to have an in-depth assessment (paid for by me), but for some reason I feel ambivalent. Is there a downside or upside to doing the tests, and having the results? I will never be a pushy 'but my child has an IQ of X' sort of parent. Could having these tests done benefit me/her, and if so, how?

The second part of the dilemma: this 'talented youth' program runs for a few hours on Saturday mornings. While I relish the thought of her being with a group of (as the program claims) 'academic, social and emotional peers', (and think it would be good for her to be around some children who are more advanced and brighter), I don't want to make pressure her. I also question if she should be sitting inside at a desk on a Saturday morning when she is 7 years old! The organisers make a point of saying that there are no formal academic expectations, and the program is designed to be enjoyable to children who 'need and want' more, but still....

Thoughts?

[joyfulspike]

If dd has been accepted into the programme, and its free and no obligation and this is something your dd would like to do, go for it. If not don't push it. You could give it a go and see what happens?? You know her best, is she drawn to studying or more of a lets go out and play as long as poss type of girl?

I don't know anything about the US style of teaching, so its hard to know what impact if any further tests would have or whether they'd be good or bad. Worst case scenario she has a lower score than thought which could lead to feelings of dissapointment or failure (either or both of you). If the scores turned out to be high what would you do? Would she move up a grade or something?
If nothing, I wouldn't bother. This probably doesn't help! but its my twopen'th as they (used) to say!

[Rivvy]

Hi

Unless there something to gain from getting her tested I wouldn't.

I had my 5 year old tested in June as we thought she might be dyslexic (she's not, she's got DCD. But the Ed Psych said her IQ was well over 165 and called her a genius. I am very proud of her BUT I'd rather not know.

I knew she was bright, she's top of her class and school was already extending her but like your daughter I don't think she's 'freaky clever'.

I find it quite difficult to sit back now and not worry about her being bored. I worry whether she would be better at a different (private school). I worry about her being different and not fitting in.

I have been told she might 'level out' and I almost hope she does as I think it might be a bit easier.

As for the Saturday, I'd be led by her. As long as she has lots of opportunities to do non accademic stuff as well.

HTH

[LadyMuck]

I think that it depends on whether you think there is a benefit. Ds1 will be 7 in March, and, although he is clearly an articulate and able child, there has been some concerns over his behavior and attention, to the point where the SENCo was looking at whether ADHD was a possibility. Whilst able, Ds1 was underperforming in some class work and in particular in some informal tests that the class were given, and his work is often rushed, fairly untidy and sometimes unfinished. As well as looking at his attention issues, the SENCo also did some ability tests and identified that he scored highly in a number of tests indicating that some of his problems could stem from the fact that the pace of learning in class is simply too slow for him, and he therefore gives up on the work because it is too easy. Not something that you would immediately see from his written work, say. Currently the SENCo and form teacher will keep an eye, but are suggesting that we go for a full Ed Psych report next March/April which can then be used as a guide to preparing him for Junior school. There are two reasons for waiting - 1) we want to see if there are other things that can help settle some of the attention/behaviour issues in the meantime, and 2), these assessments are apparently best done towards the final term of Year 2 when teachers are starting to look at what intervention is necessary prior to the jump to Year 3.

So we will wait a few months and I'm sure that the school will indicate whether they think that the formal test is worthwhile. Appreciate it is not the situation that your dd is in (as she is clearly performing very well), but wanted to offer the experience.

In terms of the second part of the question - I'd try it and see.

[Bink]

EB - hello! - as always!

Do you think you might be being drawn into a kind of niche "industry" of high ability? (I am thinking about what I've heard about the US, esp. private schools, ambience - and the possibly distorted perspective that comes out of that.)

I certainly think that special programs and assessments have their place - but primarily for children whose ability is causing them actual problems (eg, anxiety from excess perfectionism, or the kind of frustration that comes from being able only to focus your mind on "immediate answer" tasks, not step-by-step ones). Now, your dd doesn't strike me as one of those sorts - she's more the cheery competent all-rounder clever child, isn't she?

In which case I think the enrichment program might just be a red herring in her case. Yes, she might enjoy doing it; she might meet children she likes ... but I am not sure that formal input like that is right for her. Well, unless she just isn't finding congenial peers outside that sort of setting - which is a totally separate issue.

(My background to this is of course that my dd, whom we know is quite similar, is having a whale of a time at her new school, where she has an endless succession (ie, 18, which at last seems enough) other little girls to interact with, some of whom are bright, but all of whom have some quality she finds fun and interesting; and a teacher who quietly gives her a bit of extra work in - so far - a charmingly low-key way. She'd presumably be a candidate for an enrichment program, but if offered I know for sure I'd say No: as she's getting completely adequate enrichment from the environment she's in, and from us. And of course the enrichment she's getting isn't narrowly focussed on academic stuff.)

[Blandmum]

DH is a very bright chap.

When he lived in the states his parents were told to place him in a school for the very able.

they returned home to the UK, and he went into a bog standard state school. Got 4A grades at A level and went to Oxford Uni. Trained as a fighter pilot. Still very bright.

Would he have been as happy if they had sent him to a school for the super smar? Dunno? Would he have done more ? Dunno?

[Earlybird]

Hello all - due to time zones, haven't been able to read/reply in 'real time', and am now only popping in for a brief moment to say thanks enormously for feedback and opinions. Have been out on the seemingly endless weekend birthday party circuit, and tonight , I'm actually going out to an adult birthday celebration. (Do you think they'll serve cheese pizza? That's my idea of birthday party food atm! )

Two quick 'off the cuff' responses - joyfulspike: program isn't free, but not expensive either as it runs 10 weeks and costs £225.

Bink - as ever, your perspective resonates. I think part of the dilemma has to do with me. DD is 'coasting' at school here and even the extension work is not stretching her particularly. I am very aware that every week she is falling further behind her UK peers, and if I'm honest, that bothers me. I don't think she needs to be in a room full of 'brain boxes' but suppose I see this program as a way of stimulating her. Maybe I just need to draw a deep breath and let her roll around in the autumn leaves, instead of being concerned about achievement.

Will write more when I've had time to fully digest the suggestions. Thanks to all for providing such valuable guidance.

[clerkKent]

Earlybird, I cannot see any value in more extensive tests unless and until your DD requires it, e.g. as supporting evidence to get into another school or further 'enrichment' program.

Rivvy, 165 is very unusual. "Well over" is presumably beyond the scale for her age. DS is 15-20 points lower than that and is close to top of his selective grammar school class. Now that you know, you are in a good position to understand if she coasts or if her behaviour indicates frustration or boredom.

[Rivvy]

Hi ClerkKent

Yes she was off the scale, he had a graph and drew a cross way off the top of it to indicate where she was. He used 6 year old tests at 5 1/4 but it is quite inaccurate because of her age etc.

Sorry to be a bit negative last time!

[clerkKent]

We were told by the psych that the tests are not really meaningful above 150 - at that level it becomes a bit of a game. After all, how many people are bright enough to set tests at those levels?

(By bright, I mean here "good at IQ tests" obviously).

[Rivvy]

EarlyBird - have you decided what to do yet?

CK -Yes, I was just thinking that this morning, Who do they get to set these tests?

TBH I was more interested in the induvidual tests and reports that the Ed Psych did as I felt they were more of an indicator of long term ability than the straight IQ score.

You're lucky to be in a grammar school area our nearest girls grammar would be perfect but it's 1hr drive away.

You have to be so careful how you word things on here don't you!

[Earlybird]

I've been mulling this over a great deal.

Bink, I think you are right that there are industries attached to 'labeling' our children - whether with learning issues, behavioural issues, talent issues, health issues, etc. Seems there are very few 'normally average' children around anymore. I don't want to get sucked into a specialised category that is as divisive as beneficial.

I've got a meeting next week with dd's teacher to discuss dd's acceptance into the program. After that conversation, will make a decision but, for now my thoughts are:

• No further tests for 'giftedness'
  
• Try out the Saturday program, and see what it's like. If no good, drop it. If good, continue.
  
  We've just had dd's written school report, and it is completely positive. My initial response is 'fantastic', but my secondary response is 'she's doing extremely well because she's able, and she already did alot of this material in London'. I think her teacher is engaging enough that it's not perishingly boring, and cheerful dd patiently sits through what must be quite a tedious day without being disruptive because she's not that sort of child.
  
  My main concern is that even if the Saturday program is helpful, it won't take away the 'problem' during the week at school. I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done about that. It may simply be one of those dilemmas that has no satisfactory solution.