Review meeting with G&Tco tomorrow

[chicaguapa]

DD was assessed at pre-school in top 1 or 2% for her age in all 4 areas they tested (equiv alent age 8+). She is the only g&t in the primary school and we played it all down in YR saying we wanted her rounded off etc. She was put on SEN for social skills and I'm pleased to say she's now a lot better in that area. The YR teacher was fab and was always concerned that she wasn't able to tap into DD's potential.

So DD's now in Y1 and bringing back homework about ordering the days of the week and subtracting from 20. The parents' evening didn't go very well as the teacher fobbed off anything we said about stretching DD and I got the impression that she didn't rate DD that much. DD enjoys school but is definitely coasting.

So I have requested a review meeting with the G&Tco who also happens to be the Head. What should I be expecting from the school as I feel I will need to be a bit specific. Should she be assessed again to see if she is still 'exceptionally bright' (YR teacher's words) and maybe she isn't 'all that' anymore and the Y1 teacher is right to treat her the same as the other 'bright' children in the class.

I HATE feeling like a pushy mother but I can't help feel that if she goes into YR in the top 1 or 2% and finishes Y6 as just average then somewhere along the line she has been failed!?

[Marina]

Well, do you have an IEP (Individual Education Plan)? Has the School given you anything in writing related to either their G & T Policy in general, or as it applies to someone as little as Yr1?
Ask them about enrichment activities to go alongside the work they are doing on her social skills.
G & T as determined by the Government is not universally liked by parents or teachers and it could be that your class teacher doesn't buy in to the idea and this is affecting how she supports a G & T pupil in class.
Good luck chicaguapa.

[roisin]

It is very difficult to assess children accurately at age 3 or 4, and some children who are 'very bright' at that age because they are early readers or whatever do level out.

But some don't.

Personally, I certainly wouldn't get her 'tested' again at this age. An experienced teacher will be able to give you a very clear idea as to how unusual she is, if this is what you want.

In terms of what school and you can be doing; I would not worry at all about homework - if it's quick and easy, all the better; then she can enjoy spending time on projects or activities where her particular passions lie.

What are her particular strengths?

My boys are in a school that is generally great with G&T children, but it does depend a lot on the individual teacher; and occasionally they do spend a year with a teacher who isn't that fussed about G&T, or occasionally one who really has a chip on their shoulder about it, and seem to think that bright kids who realise they are bright (shock, horror, what a crime!) "need bringing down a peg or two".

Anyway, I've rambled enough. As far as your meeting is concerned, you won't achieve anything by being labelled as pushy, or by trying to persuade school to do anything they don't want to do. So I would really just let the meeting be led by the HT. Ask her how she thinks your dd is progressing in school, whether she thinks she has made appropriate progress given her levels when she started; and ask her whether she thinks there are any appropriate challenges they could/should be offering your dd at school.

I can make some specific suggestions if you want.

HTH

[Marina]

roisin, actually, I'd be very interested in your thoughts on handling a chippy form teacher...and very grateful

[obabadabobba]

how old is your lo? 6? let her play, let her be happy at school, let her be nurtured and gently directed at school not pushed. being pushed could have far more serious consequences than just ending up 'average'.
be guided by her, she will let you know if she is bored.
I understand that you want to do what is best for her but at 6? she is very, very young to need to worry about achieving potential.
I would be happy that she is enjoying school.

(is achieving potential really something that can be measured in numbers?)

[frogs]

What roisin said.

It's also worth bearing in mind that children who learn to read early will appear to be hugely ahead in Reception, but that this gap is likely to narrow considerably as other children hit their stride in terms of reading. Early fluent reading (ie. proper 'chapter' books before age 5) is a good sign and will give children a fantastic start, but not necessarily indicative of a child who will score in the top few % further up the school.

IMO (and I have been there with dd1) there are no grounds to worry unless your child is clearly unhappy or complains consistently of being bored. Even then, I would very much prefer to see my able infant-aged child given lots of extra creative and independent tasks rather than being pushed academically. I think this is particularly the case if there is a suggestion that a child's skills need developing in other areas, eg. social.

Also, the top 1-2% is really the 'same as other bright children'. There was a huge discussion about this a few months ago, in which the MN consensus was that, apart from obviously freaky geniuses in the Ruth Lawrence mould, which is frankly not what anyone would want for their child, a bright child was a bright child, who should be given interesting things to do and to think about, and not treated as somehow different or geniuses in need of special attention.

[chicaguapa]

Fwiw DD has complained about doing easy work but she won't ask for harder work as she thinks the other children will get the harder work too. She has admitted that she pretends not to know the answers etc so she doesn't upset the other children in the class (which shows how much she has come along socially).

It's not just about being an early reader. She IS the type of child that if you took the brakes off she'd be running streets ahead and we do feel we rein her in a bit. She is extremely high in all 6 areas of the curriculum which the Ed Psyc said was highly unusual as it's more usual to excel in certain areas.

But I do take on board about her being 6 and young etc. and we're not hothousing her or pushing her. I try to direct her in other areas than just academic; creatively, phsyically (gymnastics) & socially (Rainbows). But in fact at home we're struggling to keep up with her pace as she just wants to know everything about anything. She has always been 'different' but she is not treated differently by us.

She hasn't had an IEP for her abilities - just from when she was on SEN register for her social needs but they've stopped now.

I would love some specific examples Roisin. Thanks.

[seeker]

Can I ask why in what way you're struggling to keep up with her? Presumably she's not cleverer than you are at 6?

[seeker]

Sorry - but why do you rein her in? Give her a lot of books and let her get on with it!

[yurt1]

Teach her how to learn. How to find out the answers to questions herself. Teach her how to think rather than be spoonfed. You can do that with a library ticket and internet access......

[roisin]

Marina - no ideas for a chippy form teacher I'm afraid!

• I think grin and bear it works pretty well - the alternative causes a lot of stress all round with very little, if any, obvious benefit
  
  
• Also always wait for them to tell you how bright your child is rather than bringing it up yourself.
  
  That is a very powerful one actually.

[roisin]

Marina - no ideas for a chippy form teacher I'm afraid!

• I think grin and bear it works pretty well - the alternative causes a lot of stress all round with very little, if any, obvious benefit
  
  
• Also always wait for them to tell you how bright your child is rather than bringing it up yourself.
  
  That is a very powerful one actually.

[Marina]

I was just thinking of sitting there and letting her talk so thanks for confirming my hunch
Can I ask, is it the norm for the child to be told by their class teacher that they are on the G & T register, in front of the rest of the class?
We deliberately said nothing at all to ds about the reason behind his lovely, low key Challenge Club stuff
We don't want her to fawn on him, or tell us how special he is [blech] - we want her to not single him out. We did think that his "label" was sort of confidential between him and the school...so as to avoid big-headedness, self-consciousness, being teased etc...
We are seeing the SENCO the same night, she is wonderful

[roisin]

It's hard to know what activities to suggest without knowing how she is functioning now. As Frogs says "top 1-2%" is not unusual, and I'd be surprised if the school don't have resources and strategies for coping with this sort of child.

If she is or has been on SEN register for social skills, then it is pretty crucial that she engages in as much as possible in class which is 'whole class' or 'group work' as these are clearly the areas which she needs to practice most.

If she is keen reader, I would encourage her to read widely at home and through the library. I honestly believe this is better done by parents than through school. If necessary you could ask at school whether it's OK for her to bring her own books in rather than use school books if she has completed the reading scheme.

If she is an advanced writer then you could encourage her to plan and write a small book, with her story organised into different chapters and so on. If school agree, this might be something she could occasionally work on at school if the class are doing 'worksheets' on topics she has completely mastered.

Similarly she could do projects on different issues, if that's her thing.

It is possible to fly ahead independently in Maths, but it causes huge problems at school as Maths is a linear subject. So I wouldn't encourage her in that direction at this age.

[roisin]

No, Marina it's not. I don't know if my boys know they are "on G&T register", it's not something we ever talk about. I am certain it would not be announced in school in public.

[Piffle]

Totally concur with Roisin
Try and develop some breadth of knowledge. If she is good at maths and enjoys numbers, maybe do some sudoku type puzzles together. If it is reading do a library challenge where she chooses you a book and you choose her one. Travel and see as much as you can with her.

Reading is the one thing you can really let her get on with at home - am not sure if G+T is widely supported or able to be supported in many primary schools and to be fair the most resources should go on making sure all young children master literacy in the first two yrs and that those who are struggling get the most teachers time. (and I say this as the mother to one SN but exceptionally able 5 yr old dd and a very very academically gifted and artistically talented 13 yr old ds1)
DS1 was also way above average at entry into school, however I just let him get on with it, compensating at hom with activities to help him keep his brain occupied.
A truly G+T child with good parental support and a reasonable level of education should always float to the top.

[frogs]

What roisin said. Again. [smarmy emoticon]

I would be looking for evidence that the school was thinking laterally in terms of providing stimulation -- providing really good creative, and artistic work to back up the academic side, encouraging children to do little projects, encouraging and supporting children to pursue their interests outside school.

For example, ds's school has a fab. older male teacher who does literacy with different classes across the school and is great at enthusing the boys in particular. He recently handed out flyers for a booksigning with Anthony Horowitz in a nearby bookshop -- about half a dozen boys went (and it's quite a socially mixed school), and he got them to bring their signed copies in the following week to do a presentation to the rest of the class. That's inspired, thoughtful support for more able, academically interested children, which also encourages and inspires the rest of the class.

Dd2's school have a fabulous programme of artistic and musical activities which they somehow manage to tie in fantastically well with the curriculum -- one extension group in one of the upper junior classes had made an amazing huge 3D model of an island, and added in all the features they'd been learning about in geography, science and DT.

Both these schools are in sharp contrast to dd1's school where children who finished early were expected to sit quietly and wait for others to catch up, or were sometimes even punished for bringing in their own books to read under the table. And no, this was not a failing school, it was rated 'Good' by Ofsted and was near the top of the LEA league tables.

I would far rather my child was doing the kinds of extension described above than be pushed into doing maths worksheets from a year group 2 years above their chronological age, for example.

[chicaguapa]

Seeker- I meant it was hard to keep up with her pace. ie if she's asking about multiplication she then moves on to division as 'it's the opposite, isn't it?' when I'm still trying to explain what multiplication is. So that's the reining in - trying to carry on talking about multiplication instead of then explaining division. She also picks up the Radio Times and tries to read it. But then comes across hard words and wants to know how to learn to read them. So she skips ahead stages. That's what I meant. And we got her some non-fiction books which then unleash a need to know everything about that subject - which often we don't know ourselves. eg she has a book about space and now wants to learn everything about each planet, its atmosphere, the number of moons etc.

Roisin- great advice thanks. She'd enjoy writing the book.

Anyway, we've accepted the way she is. It just seems sometimes that she gets far more stimulation at home than school and I would have thought it would be the other way round. Also trying to avoid the old chestnut - me and DH coasted through school and don't want to instill the same attitude in DD.

But I'm sure it's a good school and they'll be on the case. We've probably just got a teacher this year that doesn't buy into it. At least it's only Y1.

[chicaguapa]

Frogs- I would love DD to be involved in those types of activities. It's just I know she'd be capable of them but things like that aren't available in her year and she'll have to wait to be really stimulated in that way.

Piffle- Love the comment 'A truly G+T child with good parental support and a reasonable level of education should always float to the top.' I hope that's the case. Then we could all relax a bit more and just do our bit at home.

[roisin]

Frogs

Chica, I think it's not unusual for first-time-parents to think "It just seems sometimes that she gets far more stimulation at home than school and I would have thought it would be the other way round."

But actually there is no way that is ever going to be the case.

I don't know how many children you have, but I have two. I know them extremely well, and have done all their lives. I know what floats their boat, what pushes their buttons, what interests and excites them. Also, I have fantastic ratios with them - usually 1:2, and quite often 1:1 when dh is around. The teacher usually has 1:30 or sometimes 2:30 if there's a TA.

Also (because I work school hours and term time only) they are with me for about 75% of their waking hours spread over a year (including holidays).

We are lucky in that we have had some superb teachers for both boys, who have challenged them in particular ways over the years. But it's usually when the teacher has gone way over, above and beyond what could reasonably be expected from them in terms of their whole class responsibility.

[roisin]

Would you like to send me a CAT chica?
I'm just mindful of the fact that G&T threads on here frequently kick off in an unhelpful manner.

[chicaguapa]

Have 2 children and was SAHM for 6 yrs. So I guess I do know them much better than teachers do. Never really thought about it like that. I wonder though how DD would get on if me & DH weren't so switched on. DC's godmother teaches YR & Y1 but I don't think she buys into the G&T thing either so we don't really discuss it. Although she has been useful for tips and DD has benefited from that. But then I guess most bright children come from bright parents or at least one parent so there's always someone around to stimulate and help out at home.

I think we've been spoilt as DD's keyworker and the head at the nursery school were 100% supportive of DD and got the ed psych in to assist them in meeting DD's needs. They were very keen for the primary school to know who DD was and what her needs would be in school . Then the YR teacher turned out to also be the SENCO and she 'got' DD very quickly (with the benefit of a 3hr meeting with the head of the nursery school) and tried her best. So we have just come across a different attitude with the Y1 teacher. But at least the g&tco is the headmaster and now I have some ideas of what to expect from the school (and have managed my expectations too).

I am also pleased that the thread hasn't degenerated in the usual unhelpful way. Maybe the g&t board is improving?! Thanks for CAT suggestion. I need to register for that but will bear it in mind if I need more advice. The ed psych said to join some g&t organisation but that's way too heavy! This is much more useful anway.

[roisin]

Yes, we joined NAGC at the recommendation of an Ed Psych. But I didn't find it at all helpful.

Despite the issues, I still find people on here have been my best source of help and advice and support.

[Marina]

I would second roisin's post - the input from some people on here is consistently helpful when picking your way through all of this (thank you for that roisin btw, it's what I thought too, and so discordant with how the rest of the school operates that I am really starting to distrust the teacher )
What frogs describes in terms of enrichment is the way to go - book signings, additional activities such as themed trips and talks. Ds has been encouraged to enter a short story competition for example. Fun stuff.
Good luck with your meeting chicaguapa, I am trying to think what ds enjoyed at 6 - Greek myths, folk stories, history. There is some great stuff in the Usborne Early Readers series, and (carefully censored) you and dd might enjoy collections of short stories like Atticus the Storyteller and and even some of the tales in Britannia, by Geraldine McCaughrean.
Lulu and the Flying Babies, the Katie books and the Laurence Anholt series - all about art and how children see it, are challenging in the nicest possible sense for all young children.
But even well before he was labelled G & T the advice from the class teachers then was to let him have lots of fun and relaxation, and unhindered access to books, Lego and art materials.

[Marina]

Oh, and the Usborne Puzzle Island, Puzzle Planet etc series were huge favourites for YEARS

[roisin]

How did the meeting go?