ds1 isn't happy at all....

[KevinAndMe]

Im really after other people's experiences.

dc1 has started Y7 and is really unhappy.
Some of it is xx teacher who ins't that good but mostly it's the fact he feels he isn't learning anything and that what they are doing are easier/even more boring than Y6.

Not going to go and see the school. It's too early days but I'm wondering what helped your dc to cope with being disengaged with school and in some ways feeling let down in these early stages.

[var123]

Snap! Yesterday DS was doing multiplication again. They aren't in sets yet though, so i am hoping that the work will improve.

[KevinAndMe]

Oh yes.... they started with doing column additions.... which he had mastered in Y2...

We've had a meeting with the school last week and it was all about them learning to do column multiplications and long divisions.....

When you know that dc1 found the 'extra work to prepare for the level 6' a walk in the park.....

[Emochild]

Dd has been doing column addition and subtraction

Sets start at half term and she can't wait!

[var123]

I find secondary schools even less flexible than primary. On the other hand, DS1 had a relatively good year 7 (followed by a boring year 8). It all depends on the targets which they'll hopefully be setting soon.

Its only a few weeks to go in mixed ability maths classes. Give it a chance. It won't be perfect but it should improve soon

[KevinAndMe]

Yes I know that which is why I'm not planning to go in all fire blazing.

However, I do need to help dc1. He is unhappy, stressed out, snappy and a shell of his normal self.
I need to find a way to support him until half term when things should hopefully start to get more interesting again.

[var123]

isn't simply adjusting to secondary school and going to lessons he's never had before a challenge in itself? Obviously not, but it is for most kids.

Not to worry you, but have you thought that there is something else wrong? e.g. he's getting bullied or not making any new friends or his old friends have all deserted him? Something that he might be slightly ashamed of and doesn't want to tell you?

I am not being dismissive. You may well be right about the cause. I'm just putting it out there in case your Ds is covering up something that you would want to nip in the bud.

[SheGotAllDaMoves]

I can see that maths might involve going over old stuff, but surely not English, or history or geography? Are the pupils learning new languages?

[KevinAndMe]

New language: yes. French. He is bilingual in French.

Geography is one of the things he likes, the history teacher is apparently not good.
Two teachers in english, one who is good and dc1 will say 'yep that's one area where I'm learning', the other ...
etc etc

Good question about friends etc...
When he left Primary, his take was that he was hoping to finally find people he will be able to relate to. I know he has made one friend plus one of his old classmates.
Clubs at lunch time: he went to two he really wanted to do but there was such a low intake that they have now been cancelled.

There is a good question there about something else going on, one I will hhave to investigate just in case.
But seen the build up and how it came about, it feels more like he has gone to one disappointment to another.

In the mean time, Im not sure what to tell him.

[SheGotAllDaMoves]

Well I guess the school can't legislate for what each child will have covered at home.

My DD just joined an absurdly selective sixth form and her first A level book is one she's already read and discussed with me in depth.

What can you do?

[KevinAndMe]

I know and i agree with that.

But my issue is what do you with a child that is so disappointed/disengaging when that happens?

That's why I'm in the GT thread. dc1 has self taught a lot of things. He WILL be in the position where he knows more/.has done it before. And I suspect this will be the case for many years still.
It's how he handles it that matters and I don't know how to guide him.

[KevinAndMe]

Bump for the evening.

[Lurkedforever1]

I think for now you just have to tell him it will probably change at half term when they've had chance to assess them all.

[SheGotAllDaMoves]

tbh OP I'm not sure what you can do.

The comprehensive system system in the UK often struggles to provide an optimal environment for the most able children because there is simply not a critical mass of them to cater for.

Mixed ability classes compound this.

If you do not have selective schools near you, or a school with a much higher % of high ability children, or are unable to afford an independent selective school, then your options are limited.

However, I would, for the time being, remain positive about school (obviously at some point you will both have a full an frank discussion about it - but not yet). Point out all the things that are new/different. Keep bigging up the social side of school, which is very important, and point out that even in the most academically selective schools, the kids are just kids, enjoying football and parties and Play Station and Friends. They're not all wandering around discussing physics .

And finally, I would take your son's education into your own hands. My view has always been that I educate my DC and that school is just one resource I use. There are lots of evenings, weekends and holidays in which to provide challenging activities. Indeed, your DS will begin to winkle these out himself as he gets older.

Chin up.

[var123]

SheGotAllDaMoves is right. I don't think you'll gain anything by going to the school at the moment.

Can't you tell him that the school takes things easy at the start to make the least able feel that they can cope and it will pick up. However, by way of expectation setting, it will probably never pick up to the point that your Ds will be fully challenged.

[SheGotAllDaMoves]

var that's true about expectations. They need to be managed.

And yes, in all probablility, there will come a point when jollying a kid along becomes patronising and there needs to a frank exchange. 'Listen mate, we both know that this school isn't going to provide the challenge you want, but let's make the best of it.'

But not yet.

[KevinAndMe]

Thank you all.

I fully agree with expectations. That's why ds1 is down at the moment. His expectations of what he would be able to do in secondary were too high. Maybe we should have been more careful about that when he was in Y6.

No selective school at all where I am :( and I'm not even sure the private schools are that much better than our secondary tbh.

The comment about being patronising hit the point too. Not about me being patronising with him but about the fact he feels that the teachers are patronising when they go on about what he sees as obvious stuff (incl all the safety. There is also a big issue with a big gap in maturity between him and his peers. Being born in September doesn't help either)

I've tried to explain all the stuff about starting slowly etc... That it will change when they are in sets for maths (Hopefully...) but actually the 'we know you are never going to get the challenge you crave' discussion might be necessary soon.

I find it hard though
1- because not being english, I've never experienced the system so I'm very much trying to get what is happening/is likely to happen as we go along
2- because this idea of school being there just to see your mates whilst you do your work at home is as opposite as it could be to the system I grew up with! (I've actually been very careful NOT to teach him anything at home to avoid the gap becoming too big. It didn't stop him from learning of course...)

All very good ideas to mull over though. Thanks.

[var123]

What system did you grow up with? You say not English? Was it a British one?

[KevinAndMe]

Nope. I'm french so very much used to an elitist system build to select the high achievers ....

[AnyoneButAndre]

If I'd seen this thread yesterday Id have said "Tell me about it!" DS's last maths homework was "understanding place values and where you put the commas in long numbers." I was inwardly but I did a strong positive talk to DS about how the school is getting children in from loads of different primaries at a wide range of different abilities and it's absolutely vital that they find out what all of them do and don't know. They have to take nothing for granted and check exactly which of the basics each child understands securely so they can fill in the gaps - otherwise something will come back to bite them in the bum at a later date. I told DS that once they were sure of what he did and didn't know they'd put them in sets and pick the pace up to something more appropriate to his current abilities.

And lo and behold, in our post this morning arrived a letter from the school saying he'd been picked for the G&T outreach project run by a very prestigious university . So chin up OP.

[TwatByName]

Op, I think once they are in sets he should settle a little better. Does your School set for English and science too?

Have you enquired if there is another language he can take ? At rd schoolthey have six forms doing French and two forms doing German, some parents at the beginning of year 7 had there dc moved to a form that did German.

Also could he see some of the teachers about doing extra work/projects/helping out, at lunch breaks ?

Ds asked, and was introduced to some older pupils, and now helps them work on their projects that they were doing in their Spare time.

I can understand your concern, but give it alittle time.

[var123]

I was taught at the local comprehensive in Scotland in the 70s and 80s. My sons are at a comprehensive in England. The language is the same but apart from the everything else is different!

I don't think the difference is England v Scotland though, I think its 30 to 40 years of evolution in teaching.

e.g. when i was at school, the more able pupils (yes we were pupils not students) did different exams from the less able. The more able pupils went on to do further exams. People failed exams and had to wait a year to resit, if they resat at all. We needed to remember info for the exams. If it wasn't in your head, then you didn't know it and couldn't demonstrate use of it in the exam. Many pupils left school at 16 and got jobs, or went to technical college. Others stayed on and did more exams and then either got jobs or went to college or university.

None of this applies in the UK now. I don't know what happens in France now, but if has been subject to the same changes in teaching theory that the UK has, then I suspect that its more the education world has changed, than just a different country's way fo doing things.

[KevinAndMe]

There has been little changes in France or at least not the way there has been in the UK. One of my best friend is a teacher in biology and her comment is that things are easier, A levels are now over the two years but the basic idea, is still the same. (And yes lots of learning and needing to have things in your head but also how they select afer A level, children can skip years or drop of a year if they don't do well enough etc...). The system is still basically elistic and the idea is to get as high as you can (carricature but not that far from reality).

We only have sets in maths and PE. Sets in science are in Y9, option to sit CGSE in French in Y9 I think and then prepare the CGSE in German.

The thing is we are in the North. No University is going to come and do some outreach. I'm not even aware of special provision for the G&T children. (There certainly wasn't any in Primary).

Still need to sit and think about it. I know I've been rebuffed so many times before that going in and asking 'what are you going to do with dc1 who is G&T?' doesn't sits well. It feels like I'm coming thinking that my dc is Oh sooo Good when actually he might not be iyswim?

[Lurkedforever1]

I went to a comprehensive from the early 90's. An awful one. Having looked it up online, from what I can gather, even though they won't be losing pupils to the assisted place scheme anymore, they're still doing the same crap as when I went. And our catchment school has many parallels. The only difference is these days I wouldn't have been hauled out at every award ceremony for the school to boast about my achievements. And in fairness there are good comprehensives locally even if practically we can't access them.
My school experience has formed my fears though. It's not possible grades that ever worried me, either for me or dd. It was the utter, mind numbing boredom that lessons were. Sixth form was boring too, partly from ability, and partly because inbetween being disruptive and playing truant at school, I entertained myself by taking a-level books into lessons, so I started ahead there.
The result of my years of inadequate schooling was results that could have got me into any university, no concept of how to learn or make an effort, and a determination I was dropping right out of education. Every stage I was told the next would be better, and it was only more tedious boredom, so in my head I thought a degree would be yet more of the same. When I did go to university, it was as a young single parent, and it was only because I was bright enough to get away with taking on a degree and learning how to work, concentrate and actually make any effort for the first time ever that I managed it. Practically I still didn't get the career and lifestyle that by rights I could have had.
My dd being turned off education, and never learning to make an effort academically was always my greatest concern, not whether she'd get the grades. Over my dead body will she throw it away like I did. And that's exactly what annoys me about the current system, how many able kids whose parents can't or won't support them at home to make up for school are being failed like I was.

[HarrietVane99]

The thing is we are in the North. No University is going to come and do some outreach.

There are a lot of good universities in the north of England. Have you looked at their websites to see what might be on offer? Apart from specific programmes, many universities run public lectures and open days.

[KevinAndMe]

At the moment that's not the point though. Taking ds1 to do some extra curriculum isn't an issue as such. Or keeping up his curiosity when we are at home.

The issue for me is how unhappy he is and the fact it's getting worse by the day.
I can tell him that it will get better, that he needs to wait to be in sets. But then what? He is in sets in maths. That's it. All the rest will stay the same. If, as it is quite possible, even in sets, he still finds things easy and not that great, I will have created an expectation that it will be better only for him to feel let down again.

Lurked you are voicing all the fears I have for ds1. I have raised them before and been told I was overreacting. I still have the same fears, apart from the fact thyat now he is dong French, I can push his limits, teach him efforts and great oitt feels when yoou are struggling but everything comes together.
The boredom though and the children who are creating mayhem in class, I can't do anything about. And I know that disruptiove children annoy ds1 A LOT.

Arrg...