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Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

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Talk to other parents about parenting a gifted child on this forum.

Gifted and talented

SAT's (year 6)

34 replies

Endler32 · 06/03/2015 09:41

Sorry to post again ( posted a month or so ago ). Dd1 will be sitting her SATs in May, her teacher has said she is capable of level 6's in English and maths.

At parents evening a few weeks ago, teacher says he's unsure if dd will get the grade she deserves as she is i. Too much of a rush and often skips information in the questions leading to mistakes being made.

Teacher has been given the class mock papers for level 3-5 but so far has not tested them ( the ones sitting the level 6 ) on any level 6 mock papers. Because so few are taking the level 6 nothing has been done to prepare them for what might be in the paper. For this reason I managed to get hold of a level 6 paper from a previous year, I set down with dd and went though the paper, most of the questions she could not answer as the topics ( algebra , long division, how to calculate angles, and stem charts) has not been taught in class.

Am I wrong in thinking ' if they are not going to prepare her there's no point in her sitting the level 6 paper?'.

It's got to the point where she's getting upset as I have been trying to teach her ( not easy when I'm not that good at maths myself ), although I would love for her to get a level 6 I don't want her getting stressed and having to sit extra tests when she doesn't stand a chance of getting the level 6 anyway.

So do I tell her teacher to ditch the level 6 paper? Or do I work hard with her at home to get her through it? Is it really worth the hassle as the SATs are mainly for the schools benefit and not hers ( a level 5 will get her into the top maths set at high school anyway ).

Anyone else's dc sitting the level 6's, what prep has been done with your children?

OP posts:

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Bonsoir · 06/03/2015 09:44

Honestly - just don't bother. There is no need to push your DD to a Level 6. It will make absolutely not a jot of difference to the rest of her life.

christinarossetti · 06/03/2015 09:45

If the school haven't covered/aren't going to cover the syllabus for L6 then the school is being really unfair on the children by entering them for the paper, I would say.

Contraryish · 06/03/2015 09:52

My y6 son is being entered for level 6 papers in Maths and English. They have had special lessons in both subjects to prepare the children, as the syllabus is different. My understanding is that you are correct, there is no point sitting the level 6 papers without being taught the syllabus.

Endler32 · 06/03/2015 09:53

Her teacher keeps saying he will prep her but I can't see it happening. Been told she should get a level 6 in English without any prep as this is her strongest subject but I don't think she stands a chance in maths, she's not bothered, doesn't really want to try as English is what she enjoys. I'm not sure why her teacher thinks she should even sit the level 6 as I don't think she's working at a high enough level to even consider it (she's hitting a 5b in her school work but struggles with the structure of exam papers ).

Other family members want me to push her as they feel it will give her more confidence and make her more competitive (she's neither of these as she isn't very good at anything else other than academic skills ). I don't want her getting stressed out, I just want her to try her best, get through the exams and then enjoy her last few months at primary school.

I will talk to her teacher and suggest dropping the maths paper.

OP posts:

FriendlyLadybird · 06/03/2015 14:43

Really, don't bother. Even when the level 6 syllabus is covered it's not necessarily done very well -- it certainly wasn't at DS's school.

Ignore your other family members too -- being competitive is not necessarily a good thing, and I can't see that struggling with a paper for which she has not been adequately taught will give her more confidence.

sunnydayinmay · 06/03/2015 17:44

Agree, I wouldn't worry about it. There is no point teaching just for the exam. It won't benefit her in any way.

kitnkaboodle · 07/03/2015 00:53

It's really no big deal. No - one at secondary gives a stuff about it - it's just for the glory of the primary school. My Y8 ds1 got level 6 maths, and it's never been referred to since his primary school leavers assembly! Secondaries will all do their own assessments in y7. Never heard of anyone prepping their kud at home for sats - utter waste of time

CocktailQueen · 07/03/2015 01:01

Yup, agree with the others. It's just for the school, not for the kids. Nobody will ever ask them what their sats score was in year 6.

Dd's school is doing extra tutoring for dc who are sitting level 6 papers in English and maths, so they will be prepared, and they have been doing practice papers already, so they know their scores.

Your poor dd! It doesn't sound as if the school is v organised at all. I disagree with your Relations that it will make dd more confident - it won't if she doesn't pass! Just reassure her she's great, that SATs mean nothing, and that secondary school will re-test her.

sanfairyanne · 07/03/2015 05:36

i really liked the l6 syllabus and we worked through it at home as school did f all. i pushed for l6 at school because frankly, it is pathetic to not teach a single thing all year to a child, but it backfired as they still didnt bother teaching anything to him.
last years exam actually didnt include much from the l6 syllabus, or not in the detail we had covered it anyway
this time round, next child, i have arranged links with the local secondary and the kids go there for maths. you could phone the head at your local secondary and ask if they would be willing to send a teacher once a week or organise classes.
l6 has been really good for dds confidence at secondary. most other top set kids had covered the l6 syllabus.

SoupDragon · 07/03/2015 06:20

Ds2 got the L6 maths. He, along with others, had been taken out to do maths extension work since at least Y3 though and was consistently being taught at a level appropriate for his ability.

There is no point doing L6 if the child has not been taught the syllabus and there is no point teaching them purely to pass the exam.

JustRichmal · 07/03/2015 08:05

I am going to go against what others are saying as in your situation I would go ahead and teach level 6 at home. IMO any maths a child learns is never lost as maths ability is something which grows with practice. If your relatives are keen on her learning is there one of them with the ability and time to teach her. Another alternative is to find out what the level 6 syllabus contains then use Khan Academy to explain it to her.

I think it is so important to give girls encouragement in maths, as it is still seen as a boy's subject, as seen by the numbers going into STEM subjects in later life.

SoupDragon · 07/03/2015 08:38

I would go ahead and teach level 6 at home

Are you good at maths though? The OP has said that teaching this isn't easy as she is "not that good at maths". Whilst I would agree that, in general, learning more maths is never wasted, learning maths wrongly is.

slkk · 07/03/2015 09:02

Cgp books are cheap and you can get one to explain the concepts and another with practice questions. It's up to you if you want to do this- it might help her be a bit ahead and get into top sets in y7 but they should do their own assessments anyway. In the long run it won't matter.l6 tests were around in the 90s then disappeared until a few years ago and are going again next year.

Endler32 · 07/03/2015 09:06

One of my relatives has offered to help teach her. I have been trying to do work with her ( practice papers to see where she needs more help ). I only have a C in GCSE maths, although I enjoy maths I am struggling with the algebra ( a skill I have not used since leaving school ). It's hard work trying to do work with her, she's not focused, says she doesn't enjoy maths and is easily distracted, I'm not sure if this is because it's me doing the work with her or if she's just not bothered.

Of course it would be great if she got the level 6 in English and maths ( this would put her at the top in her class as she's the only one expected to get a 6 in her english ) but I don't want her getting so stressed out that she messes her English up as well as the maths. I also don't want her to carry on thinking she doesn't need to try in maths because she only wants to follow a career in English lit ( she's way to young to know what she wants to do but has already got big ideas and feels she does need maths ).

OP posts:

sanfairyanne · 07/03/2015 09:53

last years l6 maths didnt seem to have much extra stuff on it so you could try that one and see how she went with it?
i wouldnt force it if she doesnt like working with you at home though. i've never had to make my kids do it, and i would be reluctant to.

Endler32 · 07/03/2015 14:02

Thanks Sanfairy, her teacher did say that the older papers were harder than the newer ones, I'm not sure which ones we have been looking at, I will see if I can find last years.

OP posts:

simpson · 08/03/2015 00:56

Agree with soupdragon.

DS is in yr5 & has been doing L6 stuff in reading (comprehension) & maths since the beginning of the school year.

There is no way I could teach L6 (maths) at home (I could do the reading)

If DS was not doing L6 stuff at school then I doubt whether he would (have a chance of) get (ting) L6 at end of yr6.

yoyo1234 · 08/03/2015 09:20

I Really think it is unfair of school to put her in for exams she is not prepared for (I would worry about her confidence). If I did not have the courage to tell the school she is not ready for the paper then I would work out how to teach her. I am sure she is very capable given the chance.

Way back at school I had A level modules. My Chemistry teacher's approach was that we should sit as many as possible (taught or not at the time) as we could just retake! This was bad- I had one of the very few courses at the time (I think there were only 2 in th UK) that only accepted modules that were first attempts. I had to teach myself the night before. This is not acceptable for such a young child.

Endler32 · 08/03/2015 11:18

Thank you for the posts,

Yesterday I took her over a relatives house and they did a hour of maths with her using last years papers ( 30 minutes on each paper ), it seems she is more than capable of doing maths at level 6 level but is struggling at reading the questions correctly ( as soon as the questions been explained to her she can easily do the maths ), im not sure how we improve on this other than to keep reminding her to read the questions more than once so she understands what's being asked of her. She found it much easier doing maths with someone who obviously knew what they were doing ( not like me ) and enjoyed it. I think doing maths with me is too stressful as she is working at a higher level than I can do.

She's going to have a few more sessions with relative and see how it goes, seems we just need to master the way she reads the questions and the speed she's completing the papers. I have told her to concentrate on the level 3-5 papers as I will be just as pleased for her to get a level 5, level 6 will just be a bonus and it's not the end of the world if she doesn't get it.

She's been scoring 5b on practice papers at school, her teacher says this is only due to her not reading the questions correctly.

She does have aspergers but is not statemented so I'm not sure if she would be allowed to have someone read through the questions with her to make sure she has understood what's being asked of her?

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 08/03/2015 11:42

it seems she is more than capable of doing maths at level 6 level but is struggling at reading the questions correctly ( as soon as the questions been explained to her she can easily do the maths ), im not sure how we improve on this

Learning how to read the questions is all part of the test. Practice is what is needed to improve on this.

JustRichmal · 08/03/2015 14:27

I'm really glad she is doing so well and that you have found someone to teach her. When I taught dd maths I used Letts revision guides and workbooks as they cover what they are supposed to know. When we reached bits I got stuck on we turned to Khan Academy and watched one or two of the relevant videos.

May I suggest, if your maths is not strong, you could try Khan Academy. It does make things wonderfully clear. Also, with maths, I think people are put off by not understanding something and so thinking it is beyond them. IME learning maths does not happen like that. If you try to understand something and cannot, leaving it then coming back to it helps. Whenever I taught dd something new, I always started by telling her I did not expect her to understand it straight away, I was just letting her know it was there. It is amazing how much easier children learn when the anxiety of failing is taken away.

As for the not reading the question, I often used to do tests with dd. On marking I was surprised by how much I was caught out by this. The more tests they do, the less of a problem it becomes.

ragged · 08/03/2015 14:39

Nobody will ever ask them what their sats score was in year 6.

Sorry, (whispers), Untrue. KS2 SAT results information was heavily swapped among DD's mates in yr7. They are a highly competitive bunch, mind. Not getting all L6s only spurred DD to try harder, mind.

No way I would plan to teach lots at home. I did knock up a 2-3 example problems for DD but I found it exhausting.

I think OP needs to query all this with school. DD only had about 6 weeks of extra material before L6 math test (which didn't seem like much extra material at all) and she passed, so if school has been giving your DD appropriate material until now, I wonder if they really can do the tiny bit extra in last 6 weeks (but everyone says this yr's L6 math test is massively different, maybe I'm ill-informed).

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Endler32 · 08/03/2015 19:41

Thank you, we have been told this years test is a bit different, dd has been told that it will be easier than previous years. We looked at last years and that was easier than the papers we had been looking at from a few years ago, so fingers crossed it will be easier .

OP posts:

slkk · 08/03/2015 19:45

Anyone can have a reader for the sats tests, it just depends on whether they can provide the staff. However, even if your dd doesn't have an individual reader she can put her hand up and request any question that she is finding tricky to be read to her.

CocktailQueen · 08/03/2015 20:23

Ragged - I know that the kids will all know each other's SATs scores; I meant that in ten years nobody will ask about them...

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