I have seen it mentioned about 'statements' for gifted children

(67 Posts)
Cat98 Mon 23-Sep-13 06:54:19

Can someone explain this, please? Does it mean a statement of special needs?
Would it help ds (very talented at numeracy) to have one, and if so how far advanced would he have to be to get one, and how would we get one?

Sorry for all the questions, I am clueless about this stuff but I'm a bit concerned the school won't be able to differentiate appropriately for him.
Thank you.

SatinSandals Mon 23-Sep-13 07:23:54

I am sure the school can differentiate because there are generally some very talented mathematicians in a class.
How old is he? If he is G & T he does have special needs.
The first thing to do us talk to his teacher and find out if he really is advanced and by how much. The class teacher is the starting point.

Cat98 Mon 23-Sep-13 07:43:52

Thank you.
This is what I'm unsure about. He's been added to the g and t list but I don't know what they actually do, and from other threads on mn it sounds like that doesn't mean much anyway.
The sort of level I'm talking about is year 4/5 stuff, he's year 1. But there are other aspects (eg emotional development) where he's certainly not ahead!
I will see what they say at parents evening. But I don't know if they'd even try him with some of the stuff he can do in y1 so they might not know what he's capable of.

SatinSandals Mon 23-Sep-13 07:56:51

You could pop in before parent's evening if one isn't coming up. The teacher is the starting point.

richmal Mon 23-Sep-13 12:13:50

The problem is, the school has no evidence the child can work at the higher level the because the child is not working at the higher level in the class, because they do not teach to the higher level and therefore have no evidence the child can work at the higher level, because the child is not working at the higher level in class....
Join in the loop where you wish.

Tiggles Mon 23-Sep-13 12:34:23

In our school (I don't know if it is different as we are in Wales), any child on the G&T list gets an IEP (individual education plan) which is a list on a subject basis of what they are going to do for your child e.g. level of reading book they expect them to achieve by the end of term, or to work on using adjectives in their writing, etc etc. This is reviewed termly and discussed with the parents.

PiqueABoo Mon 23-Sep-13 14:01:23

@richmal "The problem is, the school has no evidence"
--
Then ask them nicely if the child can do an optional SATs for the primary year whatever (assuming the child hasn't been drilled on historical papers at home then just the no-calc paper ought to settle it).

We did this when school said DD's Numeracy level was reported as being much too low. We subsequently got lots of face-saving flannel about amazing progress, but having achieved what I wanted I smiled politely and let that go.

Cat98 Mon 23-Sep-13 14:53:28

Thanks for the replies.

I know they know some of the stuff he can do, they used to rave about him last year in year R. But it seems to have taken another leap again at home, (all self motivated btw we don't push him at all, he loves numbers) and when I had a look at the targets for this year I just can't imagine that they will have the time to go that far with him. Maybe they will, who knows.

Littlemissgreen - we're in wales too! But we haven't heard about anything like that for the g and t list. Just that he's going to be on it.

piqueaboo - can I ask for something like that at his age? I worry they'll look at me like I'm a loon! If it will be the best thing to do though of course I would, I just don't know.

richmal Mon 23-Sep-13 15:38:24

@PiqueABoo Then ask them nicely if the child can do an optional SATs for the primary year whatever

We did exactly this and were told it was teacher assessment only.

metranilvavin Mon 23-Sep-13 16:10:43

Some schools will do an IEP as a matter of course, some will if you badger them, some won't. It's very much down to the individual school.

You could simply ask for your DS's level to be tested, doesn't have to be on SATS papers. Our school did this in year 1 for DD in literacy (her strong subject) and maths and we got age-equivalent scores. Then that at least gets you out of the loop that Richmal describes so well.

But it all depends on whether you have a school that is willing to differentiate properly or not

PiqueABoo Tue 24-Sep-13 08:30:41

@Cat98, We can't predict how any given school or teacher will respond but given that they've put them on a G&T register it seems perfectly reasonable to ask what that will mean in practice, slip in what they're doing at home, express your concerns much the way you have here, diplomatically ask how you can best work with the school etc.

That said where do you want this to end? There's no 'right' view, but I don't think "could do more" automatically means "should do more" and haven't wanted my DD to get too far ahead (works in her case she's equally happy doing 'pipsqueak' or challenging work).

Cat98 Wed 25-Sep-13 14:59:06

Thank you.
I will find out when parents eve is and talk to the teacher before if it's not coming up fairly soon.
DS did mention being in a "numbers" session with some year 2s and 3s, and that he was asked to read the number "7,246" (or something! He remembered it exactly, it was a 4 digit no) and did it correctly so got a sticker. This sounds like he is maybe being extended a bit from year 1 stuff doesn't it, though he doesn't generally tell us much about what goes on in the classroom!

Piqueaboo - that's a good question. Where do we want it to end?
I've no idea really. I don't want him to go taking exams ridiculously early or anything like that. What we want for him is to be given the opportunity to fulfil his potential, that's all - whatever that may be. He's clearly bright in many areas, if not gifted, and I don't want that to be wasted (I was a bright child though not as good with numbers as he is, more reading and though I had good grades wasn't successful career wise particularly.)

That's all!

simpson Thu 26-Sep-13 10:09:16

DD is incredibly bright in literacy and I have been told she will be sitting some SATS papers around Christmas time and they will not accurately assess her until she can sit them.

She is also in yr1.

Cat98 Thu 26-Sep-13 14:18:50

thanks simpson. how is she getting on in year 1?

simpson Thu 26-Sep-13 15:39:02

Erm, not great really. Her teacher is fab but DD is very strong willed refusing to do things, messing around, refusing to read in guided reading saying the books are too easy/boring and won't answer comprehension questions on them. But 121 reading she is very strong.

The teacher said at parents eve this week that she is capable of so much more but she is not showing it.

She has roughly levelled her NC wise (reading) and its a good deal lower than where she was at the end of reception although her writing has gone up.

<<sigh>>

Cat98 Thu 26-Sep-13 20:01:52

It's frustrating then isn't it, maybe she does need to do guided reading with the older ones or something.

I don't get much feedback from ds about school at all to be honest, (apart from his sticker I mentioned earlier and what he plays at lunch time!) this time last year I'd already met with the reception teacher twice (she called me in re ds's ability) so I'm looking forward to whenever parents eve is!

simpson Thu 26-Sep-13 20:26:23

HT refuses point blank to let her go into any classes with older kids as she does not think its in a child's best interest.

DD although messing about does seem happy and its very early on in the school year. We have another parents eve in Nov so I guess I will have a better idea then.

I have had firm words with DD about her behaviour though so fingers X it makes a difference. I have lied told her I will be checking with her teacher every day to see how she is behaving.

I totally get what the teacher is saying, she cannot take my word or even her previous teachers word on what she can read. DD needs to show this and atm she is not sad

Cat98 Fri 27-Sep-13 09:16:57

Oh dear Simpson, I'm sure she will realise soon though that if she's bored of the easy books, to get more challenging ones she needs to show that she can fly through them and understand! That would frustrate me.

simpson Fri 27-Sep-13 16:27:26

I have been called again by the teacher re DD's bad behaviour

<<necks gin>>

clairew74 Sun 29-Sep-13 06:41:37

I can totally sympathise with your situation, I too have a yr 1 son with similar ability in maths and an extremely high reading age. The best advice I can give you if you are clueless is to contact potential plus, they have a website. You can book a phone consultation whenever you feel you need advice and they have a lot of useful factsheets on their website. People do not understand about giftedness, even teachers unfortunately. I had a meeting last week with My son' s teacher and headteacher armed with a potential plus assessment, factsheets and a list of what I know he can do in maths and he now has an IEP, he is also going to be receiving additional 1 to 1 maths tuition twice a week. Good luck!

Cat98 Sun 29-Sep-13 08:05:43

Thank you.
Claire - how did you get the assessment done? Was it costly?
My son did have an informal (free) assessment done via a family friend who runs tutoring sessions. She gave him a reading age of 7 (he's 5.5 - so good but not off the scale) but she said the maths was amazing, he completed a standard end of year 3 test with no wrong answers. Maybe she'd give us something to show the school of necessary.

clairew74 Sun 29-Sep-13 08:23:55

We took part in the pilot for the assessment service that was being set up by potential plus so it only cost us £50. It is now up and running and I think they charge.about £ 350, still cheaper than an educational psychologist and the report has been a godsend. I can back up what I am saying to his teacher s with evidence. I think even they were shocked by the extent of his abilities. I seriously cannot recommend this organisation highly enough, they offer all the advice and support you will need, including how to deal with social and emotional issues that arise in children like ours.

Cat98 Sun 29-Sep-13 08:30:31

Yes we have plenty of emotional/social issues here!!
Thanks, I'll have a look at the website and get some advice. Maybe the school will differentiate appropriately but if not its nice to know there are other things we can do.

clairew74 Sun 29-Sep-13 08:47:12

Although the school will try their best to differentiate I am sure, they will probably not be aware of the full extent of what he can do unless you make them aware.Ihave also found there is a great lack of awareness as far as the emotional issues go. People may try to label him if he behaves differently and not necessarily with the right label!

LaQueenForADay Mon 30-Sep-13 21:31:55

Simpson I agree with your HT about not letting your DD go into an older class.

My DD2 was assessed as G&T until she was in Y2. But when she was in Yr 1 she was already streets ahead of her friends. So, her teachers sent her next door to Yr 2, to do most of her numeracy and literacy.

It didn't end well.

DD2 fell out of the loop with her own friends, as she only really saw them at break times. And she was marked out as 'being different'.

The older children in Yr 2 didn't like this little girl beating them at maths. One of the oldest and cleverest boys in Y2 complained that 'he was being made to work with a little girl' - DD2 promptly whupped his ass at the maths quiz.

Poor DD2 ended up feeling very lonely, and isolated, and we had tears most nights. Her teachers were very excited by her. She was assessed as being in the top 1% for her age group. But she was walking around the play ground alone sad

As soon as I found out, I put a stop to it all. I had her moved back in to her own year group. We went on a charm offensive to win her old friends back. I insisted that her teachers gave her differentiatied work, and brought home extension work. And I refused to let her be sent into an older class again. It wasn't worth it.

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