Weschler testing(29 Posts)
DD is clever, but we're not sure how clever as she goes to a state school who resolutely refuse to to place her in relation to her class. We have no idea about G&T, but she has loads of characteristics that make me think it's possible. Early walker and talker (almost immediately fluent), highly strung, obsession with fairness and justice, highly sensitive to clothing (labels and seams etc) amongst many others.
She has been having issues with bullying for a while now, and we just want to help her be happy. We wondered if having her tested would help us to understand her better (two Joe averages here) and make her journey through life a bit easier.
I've read a bit about weschler testing on here and NACG website, but have no idea how to go about accessing it privately or how much it would be. She has no SN so wouldn't get it through school.
Can anyone who has had their dc tested this way give me a point in the right direction? Thanks
my ds was tested using WISC 4 on NHS as referred to paed by sch and then to ed psych. We did not want IQ tested but we found results fairly helpful as it explained some of the issues he was having with learning at school.
Despite this I have concluded that his characteristics are unlikely to allow him to be happy at school and he has no idea how to socially interact with his peers.
Not sure that it would help you help your dd unless there are other problems that you have not mentioned. The issues you mention such as sensory, highly strung, obessions, bullying etc wont be dealt with differently if the cause is extremely high IQ. Our DS displayed all of these characteristics but there was no insight into these via IQ report.
Would you plan to show the report to school and want them to do something differently as I am not sure this would happen in many schools?
which year group is she in?
have you had parents evening and what did you learn from that? were you able to see her work?
do you feel that the school is not teaching to her ability?
could you sort out the bullying thing seperately?
No, we would not plan on sharing the report with the school. I don't think that would be helpful tbh. We would like to understand a bit more about what makes her tick to help with the high emotions mainly and to help make a decision about which path to take for the next stage of her education.
She is in year 3, achieved all level 3's in her sat's and her teacher described her as a 'bright little button' on the last day of term (this despite all year telling me she's no different from the rest of her year group, that they're all at the same level and 'no there aren't any more books for her to choose from, why don't you give her some from home'). She achieved this despite relentless bullying all year which she didn't handle well, at one point saying she wished she was dead (thankfully not now)
At parents evening this year, we were assured that they differentiate the work and she seems to be in the top set for maths, but her writing books are always half empty. (she's left handed, writes very slowly, in the wrong position, and always complains that others distract her). I'm sure they are doing their very best, her year 3 teacher is lovely, but we do wonder whether somewhere more academic with smaller classes might suit her better.
Knowing her true abilities might help us to make that decision. I would hate to send her to a selective academic school where she might struggle and lose her confidence totally.
The bullying goes on, she seems to focus on all the negatives and takes everything to heart. The school so far has been hopeless at dealing with it, mainly because it is relational aggression by the queen bee of the year group which is very hard to pin down and prove. The fact that she is so sensitive obviously doesn't help.
We have just had our dd aged 5 assessed by dr peter congdon using the weschler tests,i see your dd is left handed too,this is one of dr congdon's specialist areas.
I can highly recommend him,my dd is a tricky little customer but they got on like a house on fire and dd scored in the highly superior range at 145.
We initially made phone contact and had our appointment(which cost £390 for the report and assessment) a couple of weeks later.
hope this is of help
We paid £350 when I had my ds tested and this included the test being done at home and a written report 2 weeks later.
Thanks mrsshears, I've just been reading your thread, sorry the school seem so defensive. This is how I would expect our school to react too.
They are definitely the 'there's no bullying here' and 'all our children are bright' type of school. The head would never admit to it being anything less than amazing.
That said, dd may well be just a bright child. I have no proper comparison. The thing that struck a chord was reading the NAGC list of characteristics of a gifted child and thinking "that perfectly describes dd". Will look into Dr Congdon.
Who was that with lesstalk?
to be honest, i would be concentrating on sorting that bullying out. by the sound of it that may mean moving to another school. there were threads recently that gave suggestions about what to look for in private schools i think, but I did not pay much attention as that is not an option for us. i would be asking how they deal with special needs/bright children and ask for specific examples. (reading books, differentiation in class, etc)
I always said that it would be better for dd to be in a school that she is happy in socially, and we could make up the academics ourselves. however, that has not stopped me moaning and whinging here!
Sorry but i don't understand all this about testing children. What is it for? My daughter is very gifted and able academically and always has been. She has always been miles in front of her classmates and always found school work simple and still does now she is 12. Was on the g and t throughout primary school and still is on it now at high school but what it does i don't know. Nothing i think. These characteristics that are mentioned too. I don't know what they have to do with being bright. Things like smells and foods. Dd doesn't have any quirkiness or anything strange going on. She is normal but very quiet but even as a baby she didn't ever cry. My mum said i was the same and i was always brighter than school friends and could read easily at 2 like my dd could. School now doesn't giver her any harder work than classmates. She is top set for everything except p.e but gets same work as classmates and they are all classed as g and t classes but most of them are not on register. So what i need to know really is, do i need dd tested for something? Just for them to say she is bright, which i know she is and so does she. Hope this post doesn't sound nasty.
I think thus was one of the several tests used by an ed pysch when DS was assessed for dyslexia.
If you are not doing this through your school, you'll need to find a private ed psych (probably £400+ for assessment), and there will probably be quite a waiting list too.
I'm wondering what you're intending to do with the results. If you are not going to share them with the school, then presumably it has to be for home use? Could you not add activities anyhow? The cost of an ed pysch would pay for quite a lot of interesting stuff.
Im not sure that knowing her IQ scoring would really help with the issues that you describe. It sounds like the bullying is the real problem, and thats not going to be altered by you having her IQ?
Does she any dyspraxia type issues? The thing about senstivity to clothing made me think of that rather than of her IQ.
Thanks for replies. Ibiza, not really interested in a raw iq test, more an overall assessment of her abilities in relation to her as a whole if that makes sense.
Testing children is an emotive subject I realise, but we've already pretty much decided that she'd be better off in a different school. We are fortunate to be in the position to be able to go to the private sector, however, which school to choose is a huge decision for us, both financially, and more importantly, for dd.
What ever information we can glean about her needs will be invaluable. The school are not very forthcoming and I'd rather keep them out of it as I imagine they'd think it's an exercise in bragging which it most definitely is not.
When you have a child who is unhappy at school, you will do whatever is possible to prevent it from happening again at a different school. If that means having her properly assessed then so be it. Better that than choosing a school which later turns out to be completely unsuitable.
Ds was assessed by an ed pysch (as a result of bullying and social integration issues). The ed pysch concluded that he is profoundly gifted (top 0.01%). To be honest having this statement and a number for his IQ has meant nothing. It is of no interest to his state primary and if we send him to private school, I want them to judge who ds is for themselves. The one school we specifically talked to about his ability actually thought he might be too clever for them so it was not helpful at all.
OP, I COMPLETELY agree with you about doing everything you can if your child is unhappy at school / being bullied. You sound like a caring parent who just wants the best for their child, and I think charting her strengths & challenges is a very valid route to ensure she gets what she needs.
We also had DD (now 7) assessed because of social & bullying problems & the school were not coping with her and said they thought she's on the autistic spectrum (she's not!).
We went to the London Child and Family Practice. The professionals there also work at Great Ormond Street CH (which is a centre of excellence) - this is important because the school then cannot argue that results are biased (i.e. you've paid someone to say your child is clever). We saw both Dr Bettina Hohnen and Dr Lucy Brown-Wright (and a whole bunch of other professionals besides), they're both chartered psychologists who do cognitive profiling of children, both were excellent. This is very helpful because (I believe unlike Ed Psychs) they also assess SEN-type issues, and can test & advice further than (I believe) an Ed Psych could. It's not cheap though you're probably looking at £600 - £1000.
We found it incredibly helpful and now understand much more about DD's level of brightness and what is stopping her showing that brightness in the class room, as well as what was causing the ASD-type symptoms. We have found some surprising areas where she really struggles - but now that we know about them, we can advocate and get her the help that she needs.
Others have mentioned that an IQ test might help with getting a scholarship/bursary to a private school but I haven't looked into this. We're considering it for secondary.
ibizagirl - some gifted children struggle with oversensitivities, such as supersensitive to smells, noises, certain clothes, etc. It might be to do with their brains being wired differently from average, I don't know. Gifted children are just different from bright children. If your DD (who sounds lovely!) doesn't struggle with anything like that, there's no need to test her for anything. Some gifted children do struggle an awful lot though, especially with the social side of things.
That sounds more useful eyeofnewt. The only thing is that dd is so sensitive that we don't want her thinking that she's got something wrong with her or that she's done something wrong. It would need to be very carefully done. Don't particularly want to go through the GP, can you self refer? I've just looked at the website, was it the multidisciplinary assessment that your dd had?
Yes, we had a multidisciplinary assessment, plus a couple of other tests on top as the problems at school were quite severe.
The professionals there are very good at asking what the child thinks they are there for (so they don't talk about anything inappropriate in front of them). Perhaps you could say something like "it's to work out which areas you're good at and which ones you need practice so we can choose the best school for you" ?
In our case DD definitely knew there was something wrong (she felt very low about herself and said things like "I wish I hadn't been born" which is quite a distressing thing to hear from a just-7-yo) so for her the tests and the results (we've obviously been careful as to what to tell her!) were a bit of a relief and a source of pride & positive self-esteem to know she's officially bright!
I imagine you would be able to self refer but I'm not sure so please check. We just told our GP that there were problems at school and that school had suggested assessment, so we decided to go private to get a speedier result, and our GP accepted that without any further questions. It's not your DD's fault if she's being bullied!
Can I ask what has happened since then? Did you move schools, or did she have further intervention. Sorry if this is private and I'd quite understand if you'd rather not say, but it would be interesting to know what would follow on iykwim.
sorry for a slight hijack
eyeofnewt we have also told dd a little bit about her results as we thought it would be a positive step towards increasing her confidence and self esteem at school.
We have'nt told her she is gifted but that she was born with a special brain that sometimes makes her see things differently to other children but also helps her to be good at things if she tries hard.
I think it's helped too she certainly seems more confident in her own abilities at school although this could also be down to the teachers treating her differently now they are aware of her results
Your dd sounds very similar to ours. DD also in year 3. I could have written your post - very high ability, strong sense of fairness, tactile sensitivities, social interaction issues - bullying.
People have been saying 'gifted' since our dd was at nursery as she had high reading age (7.9) when just turned 3 but I suspected there was something else going on. School said 'asynchronous development' but we went to GP and he made referral to paediatrician. Speech therapist did various assessments which showed her abilities and strengths and OT confirmed her sensory issues. She now has a diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome.
Not saying your dd has aspergers but it is a way to get her assessed for free and which would provide a lot of useful info re your daughter's cognitive profile. X
icantbelieveimnotbitter it's early days since the assessments so we are still at the same school, which -to our surprise- is beginning to work out much better as they're now changing their viewpoint on DD1. We basically got to a point with the school where we had nothing to lose by becoming polite but pushy parents (as you said, when your child is miserable you will not stop at anything to change that) so the least of my concerns was what the staff privately thought about us . We were fully prepared to move schools if need be.
We simply shared all the reports with the headmaster, teacher, SENCO and EP and kept politely but firmly highlighting to them that the reports confirmed what we had said from the beginning: DD is very very bright and does not have ASD. We had meetings with the head to (again, politely but firmly) complain about staff members and various issues that kept cropping up (such as them not dealing with DD's diagnosed APD properly) - and we would never have been able to get to where we are now if the head hadn't taken us seriously (at least to our faces! ) and sorted out the various issues.
Incidentally, the Child & Family Practice also have an education consultant who is lovely and knows everything about the private school system, she can advice and research options as well as advocate for your child in the current setting.
I'm not on commission, honest!
mrsshears - isn't it nice to see a positive change in your child's self esteem after they have been miserable? I firmly believe there is a constructive way of handling the whole brightness issue with kids, and I think it's a great opportunity to talk about personal strengths and challenges and teach them consideration for other people's feelings (i.e. it will come across as bragging if you talk about being gifted/bright but you can show it through your work). Unfortunately for us, DD overheard someone use the word "gifted" and was quick to put 2 and 2 together and ask about it - so she knows that word applies to her!!
Sorry to resurrect an old thread. But my DS aged 7 is struggling rather at the moment. He probably has a very high IQ and is verbally very adept and particularly good at puzzles (300 piece jigsaws aged 2 that kind of thing. Has obsessions about things like bird watching and geography to a very detailed level.
He too is very sensitive to smell, taste,(nightmare eater argh), noise, very developed sense of (in)justice. He can be just lovely. But he can be very negative and says things like "I wish I was dead" like some of the children mentioned below.
His behaviour at home can be very very challenging. He is very happy and well-liked at school, although I have heard that some kids call him alien boy because of all the facts he reels off. He though seems oblivious to this and has a wide group of friends and does very well academically.
At home though he effectively throws tantrum the minute things are not exactly his way. He seems to expert so much power over our household - his negative moods mean everyone suffers. (He is the middle child with two sisters neither of whom seem to create so much stress althogh we havent reached teenage years yet...)To be honest I would not have considered getting him assessed except that in the last month he has added pulling his own hair out at the scalp which to me seems a sign of deep unhappiness. He now has quite a big bald patch on the top of his head & I am worrying he ill get teased for it.
A friend who s a psychologist at Great Ormond street recommended Lucy Brown-wright (which is how I found this thread).
Any updates of how children are doing post-assessment would be greatly welcomed. Particularly from Eyeofnewt. Sorry for the long post.
Turnip, just bumping a little for you. Ds is v similar - ok, identical - even down to the middle kid between two sisters and effectively setting the tone of the household - we had him assessed privately at 9, and for the last two years he has had camhs help to deal with his anxiety/ mood swings at home etc. school tried to use the carol dweck stuff to help. It has given him the recognition of a fixed mind set, but he prefers to see it as evidence of Persistence.... He doesn't pull his hair out, but he does soil.
He was given a dx of ADHD and asd traits (w anxiety and phobia) alongside the gifted label (I am still not convinced but tbh any label means we have better leverage in seeking support).
Have you read the misdiagnosis and dual diagnosis of gifted kids book?
Just wanted to say hi, anyway. Ds is 11 1/2 now, and tbh the assessment has not made an awful lot of difference. Camhs and outreach were useful though.
I should have said - they did a full clinical psych assessment, not just wechsler. So they ran a whole barrage of tests, including those specifically to rule in or out ADHD, asd etc. Whether these pick up 'ordinary' gifted OEs and pathologise them is another debate.
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