Mumsnet Talk

Hi, despite now having 2 dcs in school I still feel relatively new to SATS, and don't fully understand how they work. I know kids do SATS exams at the end of yr2 & yr6, but are there also papers set for all the other years, (levels)?

The reason I'm asking is ds decided to tell me this morning that 1 child (him,) got 100% in the year 3 SATS paper they did at school at the of last year (he was in yr2). He said they did the year 2 paper & yr 3 papers in English, science & maths. Would he have done this, and if so what does it really mean?

He was assessed as a 3B (across all subjects,) at the end of yr 2. If this is right do they do SATS exams every year, or is it only in yr2 & yr6? And if they do them this year should I be asking them to only give him yr4 &yr5 papers at the end of this yr because he's already at the ceiling of yr3.

Thanks for reading.

perhaps it was a level 3 sats? do they have those?

[out of date/never knew in the first place emotion]

<rereads op>

but then why wwould he have 3b? would that be combined with teacher assessment.

I think he is getting the idea of "year 2 and year 3" papers mixed up with level 2 and level 3 papers, and he should have only done tests at the end of year 2 at one of these levels ie. they shouldn't sit both.

And he is not at the "Ceiling" of year 3, there is no ceiling, a child could be a level 6 theoretically.

Susan I think i am correct in saying that a child has to be a secure 3, ie. 3b to be reported as a level 3.

I agree with Iam.

My daughter was in Year 2 and did her SATS last year. Those doing level 2 often did theirs in their normal classroom, but sometimes those doing their level 3 sats went off and did them in another classroom. - the year 3 classroom whilst they were off swimming.

So DD came home absolutely convinced that she had done her 'year 3 sats' tests.

However, as a teacher I knew what she meant - she did in due course come out with her Level 3 sats.

Sounds like this could be something similar?

Thanks for the posts.

So am understanding it right,yes I think he must have sat a level 2 & level 3 paper last year. Is there a paper for every level, (rather than every year)? And are these taken every year (with the teacher choosing the most appropriate one for the level of work they're exhibiting in class)?

If this the case should he be doing the level 4 paper at the end of this year or level 3 (weighing up the facts that he got every question right on level 3 at the end of last year against the fact he was assessed 3b rather than 3a ifyswim). Am I right to assume that as he got 100% in the level 3 test that'd be equivalent to a 3a, but he mustn't have demonstrated 3a level work in class yet, so teacher assessment has put him as 3b?

(Please excuse the bump). Still confused how it all works, can anyone clarify please?

I'm totally baffled by it all too but my DD is Y3. Last year she did SATS and scored a mixture of 3As 3Bs and a 2something (I can't remember exactly) I don't think it's to do with the year but I think it's graded as below expected level, at expected level and above I think. I do know that she has an assessment week at the end of this month but wether it's SATS or teacher assessment I do not know. They keep it very low key at our school as to not put too much pressure on the kids. Any teachers here to shed some light?

I think the level 2 papers are stand alone; I am also pretty sure there is a stand alone level 3 paper, then a paper covering levels 3-5 - teachers please correct me if I am way off with that!

As far as I know, the level at the end of year 2 is based on teacher assessment. The tests will form part of the assessment but only a part.

Schools should not give children level 2 and level 3 papers. I think that several years ago this was what happened but it shouldn't happen now.

There is no ceiling to what children do so they could be working at higher than lwvel 3 at the end of year 2 although this is unusual.

Schools may use SATs papers in years 3,4 and 5 to help inform ongoing assessment but tgere is no obligation to do so. They do have to be used in year 6 although I believe there is going to be more teacher assessment used there as well.

I am surprised your DS was told his mark on the test papers but I suppose different schools have different policies.

yes the more able Y2s sit a level 3 paper too in some schools

nice that he's bright but not out of the ordinary so don't be concerned

they do SATS end of KS1 and KS2 but some schools do assessment testing each year

There is an optional sats paper for each year group which your school does not have to do but many as another way of tracking progress.

These cover a range of age appropriate levels - if your child is particulary able they might given them a higher years paper but they would have to be markedly so for their paper not to accomodate them. There are not individual papers for levels apart from in Yr 2 and there used to be a level 6 paper in the end of yr 6 tests.

In yr 2 they are given the different papers which breakdown into sub levels, ( 2c,2b,2a ) but if you get a level 3 it is always considered a 3b as they are not sufficiently detailed in the level 3 questions to breakdown the levels. ( I have to say as a junior school teacher this is a pain in the ass as you have children who scraped a 3 coming up as a 3b but that is a personal bug bear atm and not to do with your q!)

Another thing worth mentioning is that there are lots of different level 2, 3 etc tests available for teachers to use, so if he does the level three paper in year three it probably won't be the same level three paper. For example, for the sats you use either 2007 or 2009 issue papers. Then in year three, you might use 2005, which is still assessing the same level but not with exactly the same questions.
ASuitableGirl, Research suggests that if a yr2 child does the level 2 sats paper and then the level 3 paper, they will perform better on the level 3, because doing the l2 has boosted their confidence. Obviously, a teacher would use their discretion and only sit a child for the second test if they were convinced that they were working at that level. In my experience, the kids who do well on the tests really enjoy doing them!

Thanks for the replies, feel I understand a little better now. I'll ask his teacher nearer the time what paper he'll sit this year. He's doing well in class, his teachers happy & so am I. But I do think the current system is pretty hard to get your head around!

DS scored level 5A in year two and I was told this was as high as they could test.

He is now in year 6 and I was expecting the same result, maybe I got that wrong.

Just fetched my dd's old reports. She took a paper in year 2 and got 3A's. Year 3 she took a level 2-4 paper and got 4A. Year 4 she took a level 3-5 paper and got 5A. Also the same in year 5 and 6 because she wasn't allowed to take a higher paper. Some schools only do sats in years 2 and 6 but many take them every year like my dd's did. I thought sats had gone now anyway and children were being assessed by teachers?

Hi Ibizagirl, thanks for that, interesting to know. Assessment is done as a mixture of teacher assessment & SATS results now in yr 2, (I think it's 50-50, but not certain). I think that's why ds got assessed as 3b at the end of last year rather than 3a. He'd reached 3b in everything (except writing,) by the end of Christmas term & his teacher confirmed an external moderator put his writing at 3b around the time he sat his SATS. I assume as he got 100% in a level 3 paper he must have actually got a 3a for the test, but hadn't demonstrated all the necessary skills in class to get 3a in the teachers assessment. So came out as a 3b overall.

Interestingly his school assume that kids will only progress 1/3 of a level in yr3, so his predicted grade at the end of this year is only 3a, but I think I'd be disappointed if they only let him sit a SATS paper that had level 3 as it's ceiling, so I'll definitely check with his teacher that he'll be taking the level 2-4 paper, (now I know there is one).

Henry

I'm no expert but I've read on here that level 6 papers are going to be reintroduced for yr6s so you might want to look into it for your ds.

Joyn There is no level 2-4 paper AFAIK.

It's level 3-5.

Oh, is it me or do most people find this SATS stuff confusing? I was going on what Ibizagirl said, (I thought that the optional tests available for years 3, 4 & 5, could have different levels, while the year 6 test is level 3-5,) but perhaps I'm wrong again! It's not really that important anyway, I'd just like him to do a test where the highest mark is above a 3, as I think it'd be a better assessment of where he's at iyswim.

The level 3-5 papers presumably cover everything from a scraped 3c to a top-of-the-shop 5a - they will suit him fine.

I assumed it was paper 2-4 Iamnotminterested but you are probably right. Sorry.

So does that mean there's only 2 papers (levels 1-3 & 3-5 plus the proposed extension of a level 4-6 for very able children,) then?

I can see how it might be possible to cover multiple levels on the same English paper, but how could you do this in maths, there must be a lot of things a yr 6 has learnt that a year 3 or even 4 wouldn't have covered yet & wouldn't it be really demotivational to do a test where you don't know half the answers? A child working at say a 4c level in year 3 or 4 won't have covered everything they would need to know to do the higher test would they & it wouldn't make much sense for them to do the lower paper?

I'm still not understanding this, I guess it doesn't help that I don't know the format of the exams. Is it broken into sections with the easier levels to start & gets progressively harder & the child is told where to stop by the teacher or something? I'm beginning to think I should give up on this & just let the school get on with it (but as a parent I feel it's my responsibility to just understand the basics)!

I was a reader for a child in last year's yr6 maths SATs. Basically in the level 3-5 paper, as you correctly said, the questions start easier - level 3 - get harder - level 4 - and get harder still, till by the end of the paper the last couple of questions were probably only answered correctly by a few children.

Don't know about the lit papers, sorry.

Will post again later...