Would you consider Level 5 at end of Year 5 to be G and T?

[clutteredup]

I know a lot of schools teach to a high level as they are going for 11+ or independent school entrance exams, but some schools don't seem to provide 'extra' or extension beyond the main teaching within the year group.
If your DC is in a mainstream middle of the road school would you expect G and T status / provision with Level 5s at end of Year 5?

[clutteredup]

This is a general question to see what people expect rather than a comment on anything / anyone in particular.

[flipthefrog]

usually top 10% so i guess it depends what the other childrens levels are

[mumblechum1]

Not really. DS got level 5s in yr 5 and passed the 11 plus so not exactly thick, but he's not remotely G&T

[Pagwatch]

My ds1 was tested at 11 and got level 5 . I later found out he got level 5 at entry at 7.
I didn't regard him as g&t . He got 9 gcses (6a the rest as) and is predicted a a a at a level.
I think he was very bright but tailed off. Loads brighter than him at his school.
But I am flakey about g&t. I think there are very bright children. But few genuinely g&t
He is also a lazy fucker. Only now do I realise I should have been blaming that on his not being challenged

[3isthemagicnumber]

Not really no , if a child achieved a solid level 3 at Yr 2 I would hope they would continue to progress to be working there or there abouts (though of course progress is not as simple and linear as that )
Whilst 'top set' not G and T imho.

[clutteredup]

I suppose what I'm asking is that if the school teaches all the DC to Level5 I wouldn't expect all DC to be classified as G and T but how would you rate a DC who gets Level 5 in Year 5 when the school isn't teaching to that level .

[Hassled]

I'd call them very bright and probably within the top 10% so yes, technically G&T. But not stand out G&T, IYSWIM. A lot of bright children get a 5 comparatively easily only a year later.

[3isthemagicnumber]

Why would the school not be differentiating and providing for more able children within a normal lesson though-not sure what you mean by 'teaching to level 5'-genuine question. Do you mean they are deliberately not fulfilling certain aspects of the curriculum (looking at more advanced language/persuasive styles etc in Literacy for example or exploring different calculation methods) ?

[basingstoke]

Well, I think they must be teaching to that level surely?

What do you mean by G&T provision? My DS is able at Maths and is busy and happy, which is probably why he is getting level 5s.

[LovetheHarp]

I think I get what the OP is trying to say, as I have often wondered that myself. Some schools are great at differentiating, some are not. I know from my own experience that my children for example have not been extended at school and so they have only really flown/taken off if we have given them the opportunity at home.

So in other words, yes I think they are doing well if they are way above expectations and have not being taught to that level!

[clutteredup]

Not necessarily 'deliberately not fulfilling certain aspects of the curriculum ' but for whatever reason not. This isn't school specific more a general question - I am a teacher but haven't been involved in the G and T side of things ( teach other end, don't have my own class) and am interested to canvas opinions.
If a child is an enthusiastic learner then they are easily identifiable as they push themselves - if a child sits back and 'does well /above average' without much effort where would you rate them then?

[3isthemagicnumber]

Ah see what you mean, a sort of self-taught talent then. Erm, tricky I suppose, because you are unaware of amount of input/experience outside of the classroom -if there are no other factors, limited reading, lack of environmental stimulus then maybe. Otherwise I would say that they are just clever; can see and absorb the 'next step' without being explicitly taught ..things just 'make sense' because they are bright-not so unusual at that age, but maybe would show more at secondary level.

[clutteredup]

So the identifying factors between gifted and bright would be what?

[clutteredup]

Sorry that sounds a bit rude - didn't mean to be, it's a genuine question.

[3isthemagicnumber]

In my opnion,gifted is exactly that-above and beyond all normal expectations of development and understanding. Level 5 at year 5, whilst 'bright' is not beyond the normal range of expectation. I think that because 'gifted' has become to mean top 5% of any cohort that sometimes children are recognised as gifted when really they are just clever iyswim. Within any group/class/cohort you will have children working at a higher level, average level and lower level of age related expectation , as you know it is just a means of assessment/levelling /differentiation etc. Recently though, the traditional top percentage are being labelled as gifted whereas they are just more able than the others if that makes sense.

[3isthemagicnumber]

Sorry-didn't really answer.
Gifted would be an exceptional understanding, a level of skill/thinking etc beyond anything taught-which i suppose does feed back to your op.I suppose bright is taking the information or ideas given and showing good understanding of them, pushing them to the next recognised level. Gifted might be taking them to a whole new level of understanding completely (* disclaimer-will probably not make sense as I am not gifted )

[Irksome]

A child who is getting level 5 in year 5 is pretty bright - whether they get g&t provision (for what that's worth) will depend how many others in the class also got level 5, I suppose.

[pointythings]

clutteredup - interesting point you raise in your last post - my DD1 is coming to the end of Yr5 and is predicted a 5c in maths - the school have told me this is a conservative estimate (they need to be able to log progress for blinking OFSTED and I understand that), her maths teacher says that some of the things she is doing in extension (i.e. algebra) are edging level 7 . She is bright and ambitious, but definitely not falling over herself to push herself.

I don't think she is G&T - I feel she'd have to have got her maths GCSE to qualify. She is however very bright and able at maths. The school meets her needs in terms of giving her suitable and interesting work, they are very good at differentiating - top set maths ranges from 3a to 5c and they all have suitable work - so no, I don't think these level 5s indicate giftedness - just very good support at school for an able child. (she is projected 5a/5b in reading/writing too this year).

I think DD2 (Yr3) might be a bit G&T - the school think she will be hitting a 4b by the end of the year in everything. Then again, she could plateau so who knows?

[letthembe]

I have taught Y5 this year and some have achieved Level 5c. About half in reading, 5 or so in writing and about 8 in maths. (29 in the class) Yet I would only say 3 or 4 are G and T. I believe (probably incorrectly) G and T children have a certain flair, an ease with learn and sometimes a particular subject interest. Some of my level 5 children are level 5 not through natural ability but through hard work and being pushed by their parents. The G and T agenda was from the previous government and unfortunately some parents get hung up on it.

[letthembe]

I agree with that cat64. Every child is entitled to an exciting and stimulating curriculum that helps them to progress.

[hackneyLass]

My son's (very average) school runs some "G&T provision" - they spend half a day a month in a local secondary school doing more interesting classes with similar children from other schools.

Actually my son is not imo G&T, he is bright. And the provision is not really for G&T, it is for bright kids and to improve the local perception of the secondary school. But he enjoys it, he gets to do proper science (bunsen burners etc), gets biscuits and is out his class teacher's hair.

He got to level 5/6 during year 5, this does not seem exceptional, at least 5-7 others in his class also got that.

When I was at school in the slightly more liberal 70s I was put up a year - and I am not G&T, i am bright (well was , now can barely tie my shoelaces...;)

[MyFace]

Is achieving level 5s and 4s in year 3 considered G&T? That is the result ds got in year 3. I don't think he's G&T. He is bright and he hasn't been told he's G&T or otherwise and I don't think he should.

[bigTillyMint]

I don't know if they still do it, but in my borough, Y5 children were tested using NFER verbal and non-verbal reasoning tests to compile the G&T register.

Level 5 in Y5 is bright, but it depends upon the rest of his cohort as to whether he would be considered G&T - only if practically all the others were achieving lower would he be considered G&T.