What is it that makes your 5/6 year old G+T(70 Posts)
As the title says. Just wondering what it is that makes your 5-6 year old G+T and at what point was this picked up?
Little clues that DD gave me; with yr2 for phonics and literacy, a cross-class reading group for the most able readers, an extra group created within her classroom for her and 2 others. Nothing direct from school. All at the start of yr1, along with comments from her teacher that she was being "Stretched" and that she was "very high ability".
I don't like the term "gifted" and wouldn't describe my 5 year old dd as such, but her school does. I am assuming that your question refers to the point at which this was picked up at school, rather than the point at which we, as parents, realised that she was quite bright?
DD is currently in year 1 at a state school, and her reception teacher first said that she thought she was "gifted" after about half a term in reception - at our first parents' evening. At the end of the year, they asked us to consider letting her skip year 1 and go straight into year 2, but we declined. I am not entirely sure what exactly makes her "gifted" in the eyes of the school, because I have never thought to ask , but at various points in reception and year 1, her teachers have mentioned the following:
1)Very advanced reading skills for her age (not just decoding but comprehension and expression as well)
2)Advanced numeracy skills for her age (this first emerged early in reception when they were making repeating patterns and dd was able to create and describe very complex ones, but now seems to relate to her understanding of shape and space, her mental maths, and her ability to apply mathematical knowledge to real-life problems etc)
3)Very good general knowledge across a wide range of topics - knows lots of random facts that a five year-old usually wouldn't!
4)Asks "startling questions" and shows a high level of intellectual curiosity
5)Is "unusually perceptive" and has a talent for empathising with others' feelings.
Free reading by term 3 of reception (didn't read before school), and advanced numeracy. He's reading at a year 3-4 level now (he's year 1). Also general knowledge (he remembers facts, in context, and can discuss things in a very 'grown up' way). I don't think he's gifted by any means, just bright. But I'm pleased that the (state) school has recognised this as they're making sure he's got plenty to do and his work is challenging.
Thank you. Could I ask what sort of level your children read at....it's about the only comparison I can make! My dd is also 5...I think she is bright (although not g+t) and was described in reception as way ahead of her peers. This evening she's picked up the concept of odd and even numbers. I know this isn't earth shattering but probably not average for a 5 year old?
Should add her (state) school isn't even woking on spelling yet and generally she seems to be making stuff out of cardboard!
It's not just being able to read well, but being able to understand the context of what is being read. DTD2 has been assessed as reading 4 years above her grade level. I don't think she always understands what she is reading though. DTD1 reads 3 years above her grade level but has a much better understanding.
I doubt either of them are G and T.
The school is assessing all the children for the G and T program at the moment (they are 7 - 8 year olds). DTD1 told me she hopes she gets into the program as it sounds interesting and the assessor told the children she is looking for people who think 'outside the box' have 'great imaginations' and think 'in an unusual way'. DTD1 has been a goth since the age of 4. I'm not sure if that is exactly what they are looking for though.
With regard to reading levels, dd is a "free reader" in school, but I know that means different things in different schools and they progress through the bands at different rates. At her school, they become free readers after lime band, and from what I can gather, it's quite unusual for kids to get to this level until around year 3.
At home, she will read anything - her current favourites are Roald Dahl, Noel Streatfield and Astrid Lindgren.
If the school has said that she is "way ahead of her peers", they should really be providing differentiation of some sort. Perhaps you could ask them about this? It's quite possible that they're doing a lot already, and your dd is just not telling you - five year olds can't always be relied on to give the best accounts of what they do all day!
"DTD1 has been a goth since the age of 4. I'm not sure if that is exactly what they are looking for though."
bubbles - making things out of cardboard is FAB FAB FAB for kids (and I might add, especially for v academic kids!
Dd was 7 in August, and I have no idea whether she is categorised as 'gifted' or not, but I would be surprised if she wasn't in the top 10% - she is Y3, level 4B-4A in reading and writing, 3A-4C in maths. She is certainly super-bright, reads anything, writes beautiful stories and poems at home for fun, v talented at art/music etc.
But atm her favourite thing at home is......making models out of cardboard! And I am often at what she makes - she made dh a train out of drinks bottles for his birthday, and it is just fantastic! Really stretches her imagination, her creativity and dexterity. I'm all for cardboard models for bright kids!
Thank you every one. it's really interesting to read.
I don't mind the cardboard making...it's just that I'm not sure what else she does....but like magic mummy says you can't rely on a 5 year old for the facts!
I don't think our school put anyone on the G&T register in reception and quite rightly imho. Ds is now y1 and the teacher mentioned the g word to me in a casual conversation about him the other day. Last year it was words like 'extremely able' and 'way ahead'.
Haven't had parents' eve yet so maybe G&T will come up at that more 'formally'.
I was however discussing it with a teacher friend and at this age, more than a year ahead of the average class level in most situations would seem to be where some sort of extra differentiation/ a different approach needs to kick in.
In reception ds was a free reader and described as 'very able'. At the end of Year 1, his teacher decided to do some (Year 2)SATs with him and he scored a level 3. However, it was not really until Year 2 that he was picked up by the SENCO and identified as 'exceptionally able' (they don't do gifted at ds's school)
DS2 is 6 (year 2) and the school are currently trying to work out "what to do with him" (their words!) as in some areas he is very able. For example he was reading at the same level as the average Year 6 children in both Welsh and English in Year 1, despite not having actually been taught to read in English yet. They are testing him in different areas to see whether he is ahead in all areas or just a few and are then going to work with the SENCO if necessary.
I think he does have a particular aptitude for reading, but I'm not sure that he is "gifted" IYSWIM.
DS1 has always been around a year ahead of "average" in all subjects, but this is because he works hard. Most of the time he is given extension work. I don't think he is "gifetd" either, although under the top 10% rule he would technically be classed as G&T.
It's interesting how many people think reading above age points to giftedness. I thought it was pretty well accepted that reading ability is no indication of such intelligence.
I wasn't aware that reading above age points to giftedness - isn't the feeling on here that most "G&T" children aren't gifted anyway? - but if your child is reading above age, then surely they'll get bored if it's not recognised and addressed?
As I said in my post I don't think that DS2 is gifted in the traditional sense, but I agree with school that he needs support. He is so far ahead of his peers in terms of reading ability that it is difficult for the teacher to differentiate very well in a class of 25 year 1&2 children. The Head has said that ideally he needs to be with Year 5&6 for reading (this is the class that the Head teaches) but socially this is obviously impossible. If he has some SENCO support then he will be able to work in his own Year group but at a level which is appropriate for him. Before the issue was addressed we were having problems with his behaviour in class, I'm not implying that a higher than average reading age is an excuse for bad behaviour but obviously he would get bored when the rest of the class was working on basic phonics!
Dd is far ahead in terms of reading ability and all that was necessary is that last year she went to the older classes library to get her books and this year she takes her own in. We discussed group reading with dd's teacher recently as they were reading books far below her ability and it was agreed she would read her own book at this time. The group reading is done by supply teacher and they dont discuss book etc and just take in turns to read. Once the whole discussion thing kicks in then dd will join the others for group reading again.
Rainbow, I should have added that the SATs my son took in Y1 were Maths SATS. He is currently in Y4 doing algebra and trigonometry. Agree that reading ability is no indicator really of 'ableness' but can give a pointer. Maths it is much more straightfoward to assess because it is easier to test ability to problem solve, apply concepts to different problems and the like.
Dunno. My dd was not identified as g&t until junior school and tbh there was a good reason for that as she didn't really learn to read until Yr 2- but then suddenly shot ahead of her year. But I knew from a much earlier age that her reasoning powers were quite impressive. So I just kept quiet about it, supplied her with lots of interesting material at home, and reasoned that if there is anything there it will become apparent one day.
Sitting in whole school assemblies and hearing the year 5 and 6 children talk about what they had learnt that week and realising that ds aged 5 had already taught himself that kind of stuff at three and four.
I was never aware whether thay had G+T register at his school or not.
Another one here who agrees that reading ability is not an accurate measure of ability.
For me ds' reading ability boils down to the fact he has a fantastic memory and so I'd agree that maths is more likely to show whether he's truly bright or not.
In terms of when I knew he was very bright (I wouldn't say gifted as I see that as a school descriptor and it doesn't sit well for me), I think I knew from very early on. He seemed different to other toddlers in a number of ways
I knew very early on that he was intelligent, because despite ds1's inability to move around, nobody would take me seriously that he had a problem, because he was "so obviously bright." Psychologist's cognitive assessments indicate he is in the top 0.5% of ability (verbal and non-verbal) for his age - clearly, however, this is not an assessment of common sense or physical ability... So maybe gifted in the school register sense would be a nice way of saying of some children, clever but with limitations...
ps cognitive assessments done at age 6 - immobility/floppiness noticed at a few months...
i am struggling with my ds1 at te moment. he started reading in reception and rushed ahead of his peers straight away - he started reading at the end of reception/summer hols michael morpurgo,roahl dahl, dick king smith. his comprehension is excellent, and can talk about the books he reads in details, even giving examples. his schools comments have been 'his reading is good for his age', and mainly that he wouldn't read every word out loud to the teacher when asked to read. They even commented that I was 'hounding' them the other day for extra reading books for him, and that he has 'exhausted' their supply of books. At no time has there been any mention of G & T. At school he produces very little written work. He won't do any emergent spelling at all, and if he doesn't think he can do it he has various advoidance tactics...very silly, rude, difficult, or just switches off. they put alot of emphasis of the fact he isn;t producing the written work, and his reading is really good luck, but not necessarly anything. I feel he is very bored. At home he will write, and he is happy to work out spellings of complicated words with me. It is not just his reading but is knowledge, questioning and language that sets him apart. my issue is am I seeing something in him thats not there, and I worrying for nothing, or is something there, and what do I do about it?
The school asked for my ds1 to be seen by a psychologist because they could see that his obvious intelligence was not matched by what he was producing in the classroom. He was absolutely fine in one-to-one sessions: chatting away, answering everything, writing stories, enjoying talking about maths problems etc, but in the classroom would seem incapable of doing anything unless constantly pushed and guided. He was also pretty silent in small groups for the more able children. Part of this appears to have been sheer anxiety, since once he got over his inability to express his needs to anyone, he became a lot more confident and proactive in class time.
The point of seeing a psychologist is to help work out what it is that is holding a child back - it could be a whole number of things, from sensory problems (they can't cope with the excessive stimulus of having lots of other children around them), an autistic spectrum disorder, anxiety, poor attention, boredom, physical problems etc, etc... If a school is not convinced it can overcome whatever is holding the child back in a school setting using the normal strategies it has in place (and this in itself may take time with some children, as they need to be seen by the SEN co-ordinator, have one-to-one time, have IEPs put in place, etc), but agrees that something is holding the child back, then the next step would be seeking outside help and advice. It is unlikely to be simple boredom that stops a child from reading all the words in a book properly or refusing to try something he is worried he might not be able to do properly. Sometimes children who behave in this way grow out of it with the right support and sometimes it turns out there is something going on in the background that they need a bit (or even a lot) of help with. So, if the school isn't willing to investigate what the problem is, then maybe you need to start pushing for them to take his behaviour a bit more seriously (and not in terms of saying you think he's just bored, but asking for help in finding out why your ds is not able to produce work in the classroom that he has no trouble in producing at home).
ps that was a message for topsy1...
pps reading and writing are two different skills. He may just need a bit more time to get confident at writing, particularly if he is the sort of personality that does not like to be seen to fail. Once he is a confident writer, he may find it easier to show his ability off at school. That may well be what the school is thinking, anyway (ie that there isn't a genuine problem there). You, as the parent, have to decide whether it is that or something else.
thank you very much - you pretty much voiced what i was thinking. Just to clarify, when i said he didn't read very word outloud, he doesn't skip them, he mumbles or reads them in his read because he prefers reading to himself, and doesn't really see the point of reading his reading books to someone. if i give him a picture book to read to his younger brother, he will happily read it outloud!
to help with his spelling, he has (with my help) started to make a word bank of words he likes! hes called it his 'second dictionary' (because he has a biff and chip 'first dictionary') and today put words in it like ridiculous and extremely, because he 'likes them.'. he is in a tiny school with only 15 in KS1 class. I feel (coming from a teaching background myself) that even if they don't call it anything, they could do more for him and stop complaining that he doesn't fit in and he needs to learn to. (socially and emotionally as well as workwise)
how do i approach the subject of getting him help? i already feel that i'm being labelled a pushy mother.
I think you'll have to continue being pushy. Say you are worried that your ds isn't settling in socially or emotionally at school, he is not producing the sort of work at school that he will do for fun at home, and you feel that he needs some extra help and support to enable him to fit in and make progress, because you don't believe it is going to happen naturally over time without extra help. Maybe even bring in examples of the work he is doing at home. Decide for yourself before you approach the school what sort of help you are really hoping for - are you hoping for more social and emotional support to enable him then to demonstrate his intellectual abilities, so that you can subsequently push for more difficult work, or do you really feel that all his behavioural problems will be solved if they give him more difficult work?
If this doesn't work, you could maybe even ask if they can write up an IEP (Individual Education Plan) for him, setting out what goals they have for him and how they will try to achieve these, so that you can get an idea of what strategies they have in place and whether these are working.
We didn't need to be pushy with ds1's school, because they were quite proactive, once it became apparent that if he was going to grow out of his issues, it wasn't going to be in the near future. In a way, they seemed more concerned that they weren't tapping his true potential than we were, because we were so relieved they were making such a big difference with respect to his difficulties. And it is incredibly difficult for a school to stretch a child academically if there are other issues that need sorting out first (or simultaneously). I think part of our luck there was that ds1 is in a bigger school - they've seen all sorts of unusual children go through the school, at both ends of the ability spectrum, and have teachers specialising in helping the SEN children, rather than a full time classroom teacher also being the SEN co-ordinator.
TBH - not convinced mine is gifted in the real sense. Let's wait till he's 25-30 and see how he's turned out.
He's academically (but only academically) very bright, but not hugely motivated, and is never going to be one of those kids who's working at double their chronological age unless I teach him myself.
I think he's fairly unusual in his ability to relate facts to each other and make new hypotheses. A=>B and B=>C therefore A=>C (at 2.5 years - subject matter was poo). Last week's theory was that the big bang killed the dinosaurs :-) He learns very fast, and applies new thoughts well but not that originally.
He was identified as numerate by his reception teacher, based on numbers but also he had an understanding of physical phenomena, cause and effect, etc.
Don't agree that maths ability is a reliable index of giftedness. Or, rather, I don't agree that lack of maths ability necessarily rules out giftedness. I did an English degree at Oxford with some breathtakingly gifted humanities and arts students, many of whom - predictably - couldn't calculate 15% without a pen & paper and some tears.
My 6 yo DS has been reading fluently since shortly before his fourth birthday. Obviously, early reading acquisition is not indexed to giftedness in any kind of straightfoward way. And yes - it had a lot to do with his phenomenal memory.
However, the combination of early reading, phenomenal memory and an innate desire to acquire information means that he has been accessing and synthesising stuff for years longer than his peer group. He has a breadth of knowledge about everything from Premiere League football to representations of sanits in Medieval art that most adults I know struggle to match. Including me. At what point do I stop saying, "He's not clever - he's just read a lot"?
These sorts of discussions always remind me of that lovely bit in Pride and Prejudice where Darcy and Miss Bingley try to pin down what is meant by 'accomplished.' As Lizzy replies: "I am no longer surprised at your knowing only six accomplished women, I now wonder at your knowing any."
DD spoke in full sentences at 13 months, taught herself to read at 2yrs 10 months. By 5/6 was reading at yr 6 level. Picks up concepts extremely quickly in all subjects and has a near photographic memory. By age 5/6, DD was writing stories that were not only imaginative but ironic with huge vocabulary.
No problems with school as we sent her to a school that only takes top 1-2% of ability.
dd2 - ed psych assessment at 5 which gave iq of 142 and working between 3 and 7 years above peers group across board. she only had the test because she has cp and we needed to be able to prove she didn't have a learning disability though.
dd1 wasn't identified officially until yr 1 or 2 i think. she just works hard.
ds1 was identified at 3 by the nursery as he could play shops and work out different way s of managing coin to pay for his tins of plastic beans and heinz tomato soup. and do change. they tested him a bit and found out he 'knew' how to do times tables, and work out very odd things with numbers. the lea told them to get stuffed, incidentally, g&t is apparently illegal until 5
Kammy: "He is currently in Y4 doing algebra and trigonometry" Is this still in primary school? I didn't even hear the word algebra until I was about 14- I must have lead a sheltered life!
I was alerted to my DS being bright when he taught himself to read at the age of 3.
I don't think that being bright and being gifted is the same thing.
I think one of the most helpful guidelines I have seen is "a bright child knows a lot; a gifted child asks a lot of questions."
I just wanted to ask what you do when comprehension is far more advanced than actual reading ability? I find that dd1 4yrs comes home but dislikes her reading books, not because she doesn't like books but she finds the story boring and without a plot so she doesn't like reading. I have tried to explain that once she can read the words more interesting books will come home. However, she will listen and recount several stories that are read to her from i.e. disney set, Dahl, etc. She chose to buy 'Why are Lions Lazy?' when she had money to spend on a school book event .
It is interesting how much variation there is in schools. DD was described as 'already doing the next stage maths' last term but that means nothing to me, because I don't know if that refers to key stage or stage of the foundation iyswim
horsemadmum- can you name the school?
captaincroc, reading aloud has worked really well for us
When dd was 4, I read things like Noel Streatfield's Ballet Shoes and the Laura Ingalls Wilder books to her.
She didn't really get confident in her own reading until she was 6, but then she took off very quickly because her vocabulary and comprehension were already there iyswim.
Thanks cory, will have a look at those
How old is he squidgy? G and T is usually the top 3-5 % of a class and it depends on the cohort whether he come under this.
In mho no test will acurately show the ability of a gifted child. How do you assess perceptiveness, leadership, lateral thinking skills that require deeper understanding of concepts. When the child jumps to the right conclusion but can't explain why? Lots of children can struggle with eye co-ordination early on (reading and writing using hand eye co-ordination). So many gifted children are not good writers because they don't have the patience to write ideas down as they think to quickly. Taught maths skills are also unreliable. It requires learning methods to solve problems, it can be taught at home. I believe it is the whole picture of speed of learning, motivation and co-ordination that proves g and t in school. However, lots of gifted children shy away from coming forward in class, want to fit in, become unmotivated and lack physical co-ordination. Parents generally know their children best and it is the things that aren't tested which truely demonstrate gifts.
I asked my 6 year old :
Two australians get on a bus, one of the australians got on with his son, who was also the other australians son. How is this possible? Most 6 year olds don't know the answer. My dd answered correctly in seconds.
and? Is it band to post on old threads
No it isn't banned but generally it's considered poor forum etiquette. People will respond to the op, they will respond in realtime to the responses, they'll engage with a conversation which has simply ceased and been forgotten. It's much better form to start a new thread.
Of course not. But it's not great mnetiquette, and can be mildly irritating to wade through a gazillion pages, formulate a response, and then find out the op fucked to net Huns a year or two ago, and half of the others got banned/ left.
But feel free.
I was just pointing it out in case you hadn't noticed.
The other issue is that someone with a 'new' concern posts on a newly revived zombie thread, and is roundly ignored by a lot of knowledgeable posters because they read the first two posts and go 'oh, old thread', and shut it down.
Not an issue in this case, as it's idle chit chat about ks1 kids. On other threads it can mean that a newish poster who doesn't notice it's an old thread doesn't get a much response.
No skin off my nose.
Obviously it's not banned to post on old threads.
Just bringing it to your attention in case you didn't know as the people who started the thread in 2010 are unlikely to respond.
No but this is a very common question, so maybe someone else might like to discuss it. Different 5/6 year olds
Start a new discussion, then.
No one drags up the hundred year old disabled parking thread because it might be about different spaces.
Start a new thread then??
We were given heavy hints by DS's reception teacher - but were a bit dim and didn't really cotton on (I also think they were hedging bets slightly in case I'd been a preschool tiger mom). However, we hadn't taught him/he hadn't taught himself to read before starting school. In yr 1 he was working at maths in a mixed group with most able yr2's and a teacher friend made a couple on comments. HT collared me in the playground at the beginning of yr3 and spelt it out to me in words of one syllable.
No need to apologise. You just proved the point by answering an op from two years ago, because it had been bumped... the op's dd will be in yr3 now.
rabbit, your message of 9.40 is very detailed and fab. Advise. Thanks.
How does one get referred to an education phychologist?
I doubt rabbit will reply seeing as the message was from October 2010
tantrum, I just realised this. Never mind. I have seen in another thread. This was a good thread though by the looks of it and some very good advice.
Was told ds was on G and T register in reception for numeracy and literacy. Not been mentioned since though. In year 1 he was reading books on a par with ds in year 3 who is fairly average. Teacher never gave him spelling homework as he could already spell the words. Told to learn new words in a dictionary instead. Also took some sat papers for writing in year 1 to check comprehension and achieved 2a/3c I believe. Numeracy still ok but not anything special.
My little one is 5 and in reception and I'm worried too that his brightness is being ignored. At home he's reading long words but his teacher was more concerned with making sure the whole class can read 2-3 letter words it's the the same with my boy and his general knowledge. We discuss black holes, friction, volcanos (our topics on the way to school) and gravity pops up every day. He loves to work out and find out how everything works and has no problem stranding up to his teacher (which I'm sure is quite annoying) I think I need to see school about this as I don't want him to lose it. Good luck and I hope you get there too xxx
I don't know. I work in his school and a little while back, all staff were sent the G&T list, which is how I discovered D's was on it. (That was a weird moment!)
He's 6, reads the same books as my very able 9 year old and understands them. I'm not yet sure if he gets inference. He's very good at maths and very interested in all things scientific. He seems to be able to grasp concepts really quickly and can explain them clearly.
His scissor skills are rather poor and his drawings are very basic. They're OK for the young year 2 he is, but not at the level of the rest of his brain, thus proving that you can't be good at everything.
He's a quirky, happy little chap.
School are really good at differentiating,so he doesn't get bored. I worry that he will one day, though. Or he may level out, who knows? So long as he never frames his brains for granted and just coasts, I don't mind.
Ds,not D's and takes, not frames. Sorry.
My daughter could not read before reception class (other children did), however learnt to read in 2-3 weeks at school. It was the same with maths, she just picked it up at school.
The class was assessed in year one. She came out first both at maths (can add and take away 2-3 digit numbers) and spelling (spelled 56 words correctly out of 60). She is in year 1 now and can count in 2, 3, 5, 10 up to over 100 and back, knows odd-even numbers, metric units, shapes, reads music...
It was just an example that children that are g&t, advanced in Reception can be overtaken by others.
Trixie what books is teacher giving your son, how do you know what literary if I, doing at school and that its too easy for him?
Re forum etiquette, it might be worth noting that different forums have different rules: I have been told off on other forums for starting a new thread on something that had already been covered and moderators have moved my post without asking me. So if you come from elsewhere it's not always easy to know.
Join the discussion
Please login first.