mathematician toddler

[numbersnamechange]

I feel quite embarassed to be posting this... so embarassed that I have in fact namechanged . I really don't want to be seen as a pushy "look what my DS can do already" type of parent, but I have been wondering whether DS's behaviour is normal, and what if anything I can do to help / encourage him.

DS is 2 (24 months) and appears to me to be very very good at maths / numbers related things. He definitely does not get this from me, so I am a bit at a loss as to where to go with it (if anywhere!). He can count to 50, tell the time (if a clock has numbers, not roman numerals), will walk along the street pointing out house numbers ("look mummy, it's house number 26...") and the same with bus numbers etc. He can sit with his duplo and say things like "I have 6 blocks and I am taking away 2 blocks so now I have 4 blocks". He's quite verbal too, but not in a stand-outy way. The numbers thing is getting really obvious though, and people (other mums mainly) often comment / make him do sums when we're out and about, which I find a bit uncomfortable, as if he's being viewed as some kind of freak show. He has pretty much picked it all up himself (and from Numberjacks!), I haven't pushed him at all.

3 years until he starts school.... it seems like ages, and he's so keen I wonder if I should be working with his love of learning just now. Or would that be ridiculous with a 24 month old? Please be gentle, I feel like a bit of an idiot posting this, and please just say if you think it's not that special... I can take it!

[Wigeon]

That sounds pretty unusual to me. My DD is 26 months and although I would say her speaking is slightly above average, her counting usually goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 10 or 1, 2, 3, 4, 9, 10, 11! She can recognise the number 2 as it's her age, but no others. And this is pretty typical looking at her friends.

Personally if it was my DS I would be encouraging him if he finds it fun, and "teaching" him lots to do with numbers during the course of the day, as it comes up (as you say, things like the time, counting duplo etc.) Surely at this age you just start from where the child is, and encourage their natural ability at a time when they think learning new things is fun and exciting. As long as you don't force him to sit down and do sums, I think encouraging this ability is great!

[Lililili]

What is exceptional here is that your son understands the concept of number. It is not just about being able to recite or read numbers.It is true that all children are different, some plateau etc, but there are cases like this when I would say it is exceptional, particularly as you have not "pushed" it. He also has excellent language for a 24 month old.

My daughter had exceptional early language and early reading. She was always looking at books and asked me to teach her to read when she was 2.5. I told her she was too young and she would learn to read when she went to school. Little did I know! It just kind of happened and she was soon reading fluently. I used to find it embarassing too and actually played down her abilities. With maths she showed an interest at about age 3.5 and rocketed since. I think what I am trying to say is that you need to go with the flow because, if at 24 months he loves and is interested in numbers, then why should you try and slow down or speed up a natural interest?

My daughter is happy now, but there have been problems along the way.If I could turn the clock back I would have started my daughter at school later. Nursery was fine and some of reception was fine, but as soon as they started formal learning the problems started. She hid abilities to fit in and became very confused.

Our priority has been play, play, play and NOT trying to fill all her time. She just loves learning and is very imaginative. My DS is 23 months. Im sure he is very bright and will probably do well at school, but nowhere near what your son is doing.

[snorkie]

That sounds unusual to me too. I don't think my ds (who at 16 is still very mathematically inclined) was as noticably mathsy at 2 (can't really remember what he was doing at 2, but fairly sure it didn't go beyond about one of my friends being impressed by his duck counting abilities) but the interest in numbers in a similar way does sound very familiar.

Is it normal? - I think yes, but I may be defining normal differently to you. It is highly unusual (you will find very few other children the same) but it's still normal.

I've never really figured out whether the ability to do maths is innate, or if it's the early fascination with numbers that leads to the ability. I rather suspect it's the latter.

So, what to do... if he's like my ds he'll enjoy games that involve numbers - monopoly type things and shape puzzles like jigsaws anything with dice, card games, tangrams - you'll may well find he naturally gravitates towards more mathemematical play things much moreso than most other children (ds did). I'm not sure I'd want to do anything more formal so young but some people do start kumon very young, and you might find it's something he'd actually enjoy, though that depends quite a lot on his personality (Ds has another mathsy friend who romped through all the kumon levels in primary school, but I doubt he was as young as 2 when he started).

I expect he'll find school maths rather easy and dull, having already grasped the concepts being taught - another reason to be cautious with pushing ahead in any structured way even if he does really want to.

There seem to be quite a number of parents of very mathsy children on mumsnet so no need to be embarrassed about it! I'm sure some others will be able to share their experiences & opinions many of which are different to mine.

[Kammy]

Yes, that interest in numbers sounds familiar to me too! And like others I have often wondered about 'innate' maths ability. My ds seems to have a very natural understanding of mathematical concepts (e.g. started counting in 2's and 3's at nursery and by reception was busily teaching himself multiplication tables). His world is very mathematical and everything was (and to a degree still is) expressed in terms of numbers, percentages, probabilities, sets and so on.


He does find maths at school tedious (he's 8), but his school have been excellent at recognising his abilities and trying to give additional challenges. Your ds is very likely to be way ahead of his peers at school, but I don't think you really need to do anything special yet - he'll probably do it for himself if you see what I mean.

Good luck!

[allbie]

My DS is 4 and started noticing numbers at a little less than 12mts. He now knows numbers in their thousands and really understands the values. He loves the challenge of numbers and has always been self motivated. He tells the time too but we think it's just 'his thing'. We don't class him as 'gifted' really. He can read and does many things other children will do eventually but at some point they'll all catch up with him. If he shows more ability at school then we'll probably work with him if that's what he wants. I think to say he was gifted now would be setting him up for a fall. He is just particularly interested in those things...he isn't much of a writer and loathes bikes, won't climb but loves people his own age.

[Algebra18MinusPiEquals16]

wow, sounds like a clever little boy!

it's great that he's so into numbers - makes me so sad that many children (and adults) have such a fear about maths. this passion, if it continues, will serve him well :)

I wouldn't worry about it though. just play with him, let him lead the way. provide lots of opportunities for learning through play, maybe board games etc.

but also don't focus too much on numbers IYSWIM, make sure he has the chance to do other toddler stuff like running around with a football etc :)

[minimathsmouse]

He must be a real joy to have around. I run maths clubs, I so wish all children would have a greater interest in maths.

My son was counting at 12months (he started to speak in clear sentences) and by 30 months he was tackling addition on paper in double figures. He asked at six if it was possible to study maths after degree.

You ask if you should be doing something now. I would say yes, why not. Just like any other parent, you provide encouragement and resources, time and energy. If he enjoys maths he will want to progress with it and a child who has such a tallent is rare and exceptional. The G&T register in state schools label the top 10% as gifted, it is not a reflection of giftedness in its true sense. I work with children aged 12m-8yrs and your son seems exeptionally gifted at maths. Its a joy and a responsibility.

[numbersnamechange]

Thank you so much for your responses, it's been useful to get other people's opinions. I agree that it is great that he has such an interest in numbers - I definitely fall into the category of people who have a bit of a fear of maths, although DH is more mathematically inclined. I think I will just try to nurture this gently, lots of encouragement and numerical play (to be honest, he turns most play into numerical play somehow anyway... e.g he is currently playing with his toy kitchen, cooking " one sausage, two potatoes and three carrots... oh look, one carrot is cooked, the other 2 carrots need more cooking...!"). He does get lots of outdoor running around time too, and loads of stories, so hopefully that will keep the balance.

THanks again for taking the time to reply.

[ouryve]

DS1 was like this, though probably about a year behind in areas that required language (he has ASD and had a significant receptive language delay as a toddler). We did simply play with numbers. He loved spinning for the stimulation and would count the number of times he went round well into the hundreds. I distracted him from impending meltdowns on the way home from nursery by taking it in turns to count at different number intervals, backwards and forwards etc. We generally did lots of counting and measuring and working things out together. I am mathematically minded, so found it quite easy to share his enthusiasm. As he got a bit older, I bought him a few workbooks and he'd lap them up and have a thoroughly good time.

I think the key at this age is definitely to enjoy it and follow your child's lead.

[isw]

You might find some activites on here you could adapt, colouring in flash cards etc

www.coolmath4kids.com/

[Bink]

I've got a very mathsy 11yo and he was not as far on as your son at 2.

For comparison - we noticed he had the idea of number when he was counting stairs (to 14, which is how many there were) at 18 months; he worked out counting to 100 at 4; and (my favourite) one day in the car when he was 5 he was silent for a bit & then suddenly said "Guess what!! Three-quarters of an hour is one thirty-second of a whole day!" (I like that one because of the real joy of Eureka quality.)

Ds's number enthusiasm is inexhaustible, so I wouldn't worry your boy will get bored - you can just give ds a pen and some squared paper and he just plays with what's in his head. He used to invent mathematical symbols for functions that were of course completely surreal & nonsensical, but were Fun. Tarquin, the publishers, has loads of lovely mathsy stuff - maybe too old for your ds now, but ds loved their times tables colouring books when he was 4, and we all like doing the cut-&-stick mathematical models. When your ds is 5 (or by whenever he's reading by himself), get him all of the Murderous Maths series by Kjartan Poskitt - they're wonderfully funny as well as directly sparking the wiring of children like him. They're meant for a bit older, but easily accessible to that sort of child.

School isn't a problem either because ds is so engaged in his own ideas of maths he'll cheerfully do the syllabus so long (again) as he's got that pad of squared paper to do intricate bonkersnesses on when he's done the worksheet (and a teacher who understands, which generally maths teachers Absolutely Do).

I don't know if I'm stereotyping, but ds's mathsiness goes with a particular strong but subtle sense of humour which seems characteristic to me - he likes paradoxes and riddles and classic verbal humour like Molesworth (and also Poskitt, as above). So I would find out what makes your boy chuckle, because it might be similarly nice.

[allbie]

Oh absolutely about the humour!

[NickOfTime]

aw, he sounds very similar to ds1. when he went to nursery at 3 they discovered in the role play shop that he could work out how to pay for his shopping in several different ways with the coins available lol (how many ways can you make 20p ds?) no idea how. he just knew, and could also do it with 'lots of' numbers. '9 is 3 lots of 3, isn't it? or two lots of 4 and a 1?' '17 is ten and 7, or two 8's and a 1, or 3 fives and 2.' the nursery manager nearly wet herself and called the lea to ask if they would assess him - they said no. i bet your boy is doing the same in a year

i agree about the humour too - his teachers love him, and always mention that he's on their wavelength rather than laughing solely at bottom jokes (although he does that too..)

[MistyB]

This book is great - it has lots of ideas of how to play with maths including playing double snakes and ladders or snakes and ladders with two dice etc.