How much intervention is needed if a child is happy?

[magicmummy1]

Hello. Not really sure what I'm looking for here. Maybe advice, or maybe just confirmation that I'm not actually failing my daughter. Or perhaps just trying to work out what I think myself by putting my thoughts into writing. I have a natural tendency to over-think things anyway, and 'm not terribly confident about my parenting skills, but I posted about my dd previously on the primary education thread, and felt so much better after receiving lots of great responses. Any honest feedback appreciated!

My dd is five and has just started year 1. She is a very bright, curious little girl but I wouldn't call her gifted in the "Einstein" sense - she is probably working at around 2-3 years ahead of her chronological age in most areas of the curriculum, so "G&T" in the school definition but still well within the range of "normal". However, I do believe that she is "gifted" in a less traditional sense, in that she has always been by far the happiest and most enthusiastic child I know - started social smiling at seven days old, and basically never stopped. I am convinced that she was born with this incredibly happy disposition, and it is something that everyone seeems to notice within minutes of meeting her.

DH and I have always felt extremely blessed to have such a happy, enthusiastic and "easily pleased" little girl, but I occasionally wonder if her easy-to-please nature leads us to be too relaxed about "fighting her corner" in other areas. I am thinking now particularly about school, where she is blissfully happy but perhaps not "stretched" as far as she might be. My instinct has always been along the lines of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and as she has been enjoying school so much, I have been content to just let her get on with it. I have also tended to trust in the school to ensure that her needs are met - call me old fashioned, but I tend to regard teachers as professionals who mostly know what they're doing.

If you read my other post, you may remember that the school had suggested accelerating her by a year, and I refused as I felt that she was happy where she was. All the lovely people here on MN assured me that this was the right decision, and I do believe that it was. She has now started year 1, already loves her new teacher and everything seems to be going really well so far.

So what, you might ask, is the problem? Maybe it is just me being a neurotic parent, PFB and all that. But I have quite a lot of friends - many of them ex-uni friends - who have similarly bright children, and they seem to be constantly engaged in battles with their DCs' schools about ensuring appropriate extension work etc. I read on these boards and elsewhere about all the parents who get their children "assessed" or "IQ tested" by ed psychs etc, and I find myself wondering why they do this. Bottom line is, I find myself secretly wondering if dd's happy nature has actually made us rather lazy as parents, and whether she is perhaps missing out as a result?

I am honestly confused about this. Sometimes I think, no, she is fine - she is learning and progressing, and she is enjoying life at the same time, so why on earth would we mess with it. But then I hear friends talking about their ed psych reports and the difficulties of ensuring that bright children are properly catered for etc etc and I wonder if we are perhaps just too laid back about it all.

Sorry, that was longer than I intended - just feeling a bit insecure about the whole thing today and could do with some reassurance. It would also be good to hear from parents who have gone down the whole assessment/battle with the school route, and to know what actually precipitated that. Was it primarily unhappiness on your DC's part, or because you as a parent felt that they weren't getting quite what they needed?

Thank you all.

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

I've avoided any assessments as they are really not needed. If she's happy then I'd leave it but it doesn't mean that you can't suppliment her learning at home, ds was doing a history project on the egyptians so I took him to London to see the collection in the british museum (via hamleys/national gallery/parliament), he took some pictures which he used in the project. If your daughter becomes bored then you will be able to tell, as long as she's happy then I'd leave it at this.

[magicmummy1]

Thank you belle. It's great to know that you haven't felt the need for any assessments either - I honestly can't see what use they would be to us right now.

And I'm sure you're right about knowing if she is bored. I guess my insecurity stems from the fact that she very rarely seems to feel bored, as she is the kind of kid who manages to find something interesting in just about anything. Also, she sees school primarily as a place to have fun with her friends, rather than as a place to learn, so I suppose I have trouble knowing whether or not a lack of boredom on her part is necessarily evidence that everything is fine iyswim!

We do try and do things with her at home - not "academic" stuff exactly, but lots of outings, games, puzzles, reading etc. She also likes to do little projects and is currently obsessed with the Romans after watching Horrible Histories! I guess it's always been my hope that these little initiatives of her own will be enough to keep her stimulated, while she continues to enjoy the social aspects of school, but I don't know if this is a bit of a cop-out on my part?

[belledechocolatefluffybunny]

The schools do tend to assess them in their own way anyway. I have, on several occasions, had to mention the fact that ds is constantly getting 100% for his homework that takes him a few minutes to complete so would it be a good idea for them to give him something a bit more challenging so it's not been easy, you have to be on the ball as no child should be getting 100% for 5 minutes work, it's a sign that they are finding things way to easy.

School is important, not just for the academic side but the social side aswell, few employers would want a very bright member of staff with no people skills.

[magicmummy1]

Thank you pixie - just seen your post. I guess that's sort of what I wanted to hear with regard to assessment etc - that there was a real reason for getting it and that you knew when the time was right. Though even then, it doesn't appear to have told you anything that you didn't know anyway!

I have read some of your other posts on this forum, and it does seem that your DC falls into the realm of what I would call truly "gifted", rather than just bright. My dd is a clever little thing, but certainly not on that scale, so as you say, she should be well catered for by the school within the normal curriculum. And indeed, from what you have said, it sounds like your DS's school has been quite responsive even to his more unusual needs.

It had always been my assumption that the school would provide appropriately for all children tbh - just as my own schools provided for my needs when I was a kid. I think I just started to have doubts because of frequent complaints from friends about how their kids were being failed by the system. It really isn't my perception that these kids are any less "mainstream" than my dd, and so I started to wonder if my expectations were too low.

But as you have both said, my dd is happy and so I probably don't need to worry. And if there does come a time when she is less happy, then hopefully she will let me know!!
I do lurk on the "place where we can chat" thread from time to time, so may come back and post there some time!

[magicmummy1]

Thank you both for your words of wisdom - much appreciated. :)

I too would be concerned if she was getting 100% for five minutes of work. Fortunately, homework at dd's school is the same from reception through to year 6 - they are given a topic for two weeks, and it's up to them to approach that topic in whichever way they like, so plenty of opportunity for dd to explore and stretch herself, and she usually loves doing it.

Thanks again!:)

[runoutofnameideas]

I think you should stand by your convictions and gut feel and ignore the friends and what they do.

She is happy, she is progressing. Keep an eye on things and if that changes then it might be time to gently ask if there is more school can do but there's no point worrying about it all if that's not the case.

I described my current thinking to my dh the other day as being fine about ds moving along in say 3rd or 4th gear instead of 5th gear academically if it meant he was happy.

Yes he might be a reading level or two above if he was always getting tailored work but he's having fun, making friends and being a five year old.

Your dd sounds amazing and a delight!

[activate]

I believe I love you OP

I think your attitude and beliefs are spot-on

and your happy little girl will stay a happy little girl because of your centered approach

she is a child - let her be

let kids be kids

[Cimarosa]

My ds sounds just like your dd. He forged ahead from his first second in reception, although his knowledge was already well ahead of his peers - not pushed by me, but just from his sheer love of learning. He very quickly became 'free-reader'etc.

He is now in Y5 and still very happy. He was marked as good level 5's at end of last year (Y4), but has not been assessed above this. He will occasionally complain about work being too easy, even though he is given extension, but school are very responsive. In fact, I've noticed recently that his interests more and more crop up in the class curriculum and this is not co-incidental, he tends to set the pace, but the school are very good at doing this subtly and no-one else notices this.

We, and our school, firmly believe that the best G and T provision provides sideways extension, rather than constantly pushing a child ahead. For example, deeper exploration of a given topic or more indepth problem solving type activities. Otherwise, a child will inevitably reach a point where provision becomes much more difficult or just plain inaccessible due to age, and then boredom really kicks in.

I'm going to be controversial now, but pushing children ahead of their chronological age in terms of educational curriculum and levels is the lazy way to provide for G and T children, IMHO!

[basildonbond]

all the instances I'm aware of where parents have got their dc assessed and/or had battles with the school about provision etc have been because there's been a problem of some sort.

Ds1 had an IQ test at 5 as part of a multi-disciplinary assessment - he was patently obviously exceptionally bright but at the time not reading, writing or even able to hold a pencil, so the IQ test formed part of the investigation into the apparent mismatch between his ability and what he was actually able to do in class. We wouldn't have had an IQ test done otherwise - and tbh it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know, but did help in getting ds1's 'giftedness' acknowledged in his statement. We haven't had tests done on ds2 or dd because they haven't had the same kinds of problems so it would be pointless.

In your dd's case, she's happy and seems to be getting a lot out of school, so why bother over-complicating things when you don't need to? (Your dd sounds lovely btw :))

[marialuisa]

Pixie-what made you decide that the GCSEs were the right thing to do for your DS? DD has just started Y5, her previous school suggested she should take maths GCSE in Y6 and TBH it marked the beginning of the end for her staying there, it just felt completely wrong (added to DD already getting very self-conscious about her own ability). We had big worries about what would happen for secondary school especially as she is very able at maths but isn't enthralled by it at all.

[Cimarosa]

Hi Pixie

That is indeed a very good question, especially as I don't know your son. But, here are my thoughts, please don't be offended as as I've already said I don't know your son and you do and clearly do the best by him.

However, how does a child 'get eight years ahead'? Does this mean they have covered all the NC content over the next 8 years? I will assume yes. There could be two reasons for this - one good, one not so.

Reason 1. child learns v fast and only needs to be taught s.thing once and so school move on through the curriculum to each new topic. My son learns v fast and always grasps a point straight away. I have no doubt that if he was then taught the next 'chapter' he would grasp that just as easily. Result, child very quickly gets ahead of peers in terms of school years. Problem, once they've covered work for year 13, other than OU modules options are limited. Surely a better solution would be to allow for some independent learning, reading around a subject of interest etc.

Could lead to

Reason 2. Child has insatiable thirst for knowledge and finds these things out for themselves. Eg. my ds recently was doing some maths ICT at school, for which he does work several years ahead on the given programme, discovered something he hadn't been taught, asked questions, and very quickly taught himself. I would assume Pixies ds to be like this. Again, though, I would question the need to formally assess this in a child, surely a good school would celebrate this independent learning and give them lots of opportunity to extend this learning. IMO having GCSE's etc. particularly early is unhelpful when it comes to uni applications etc.

However, this is just my opinion, and I can well appreciate that another parent would choose differently. My son thrives on challenge, but we have found that providing lots of extra-curricular opportunities, eg. music exams, alongside a school that appreciates independent learning and extension to be the best solution for us.

[GooseyLoosey]

I too would avoid formal assessment. If she is happy I think that no intervention at all is required.

Ds was assessed by an ed psych at the end of last accademic year. It was because of concerns about his social integration in the class and because lots of people said "he's not like other children is he?".

The assessment has been counter-productive. He had just turned 7 and was assessed as working at the age of a 14 year old with a fairly high IQ.

All that knowing this has meant is that no one now has to address his social problems. Everyone just nods and says, "yes, he's very clever" whenever an issue comes up. They don't even do a great deal of extension work because we have not wanted to further isolate him from his peers.

[GooseyLoosey]

Vegasmum - that's why I love MN - its great to hear from people in a similar situation.

Ds interacts well sometimes, but othertimes he displays a complete lack of understanding of what motivates other children - he simply does not get it. We try and "de-brief" after these situations to explain what went wrong for him and what he could have done.

The Ed psych said that what he saw in ds was consistent with the difficulties experienced by many extremely bright children. They do not see things the way that their peers do. Sady I cannot explain to other parents that the reason ds acts the way he does is because he is cleverer than their child. Can you imagine how well that would go down! In my view we would have been better off not having been told that ds is "exceptionally gifted" as that is now used as an excuse by all not to deal with his social issues. I don't care how clever he is, I just want him to be happy.

[magicmummy1]

LOL My dd adores being with other kids, and we don't really have any problems socially - not so far, anyway! But she has always been "different" from other children, and she is definitely more mature.

Her teachers and her friends' parents all seem to love her because she keeps her peers in order - she ensures that everyone is observing the rules, tells them when they're not being sensible, reminds them to play nicely with each other, and carefully risk assesses every activity before they start. I used to worry about her alienating the other kids because she is so bossy, but she has tons of friends and for some reason, they just let her get away with it. The parents often say that dd is always welcome in their homes because their kids listen to her more than they listen to their mums and dads!

[magicmummy1]

we used to call dd the "law enforcer" when she was a toddler, because she was so obsessed with rules and making sure that people obeyed them. The nursery said that she always used to monitor how many people were in the "home corner" etc, just to ensure that the rules were being upheld.

And yes, she is immensely proud of the fact that her name was never written "on the board" in reception last year. I once asked her what she would do if her name did get put on the board for any reason. She said very earnestly that she would never go back to school again, and I think she meant it.