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Calling all Raggedies - the THIRD Ragged Bits thread. Childbirth injuries, sphincter problems, fistulae... all welcome.

(846 Posts)
Jacksmania Fri 26-Oct-12 19:08:26

First thread here, May 2008 to June 2009.

Second thread here, June 2009 to Oct 2012.

Welcome everyone with ragged bits due to childbirth. We're sorry you had to find us, but we promise to hold your hand and listen.

There is no TMI here and nothing is too gross, too embarrassing or too horrible.

<lays out tea tray, buffet and alcoholic bar>

All welcome.

RaggedyJay Fri 26-Oct-12 23:09:32

Hello, a new, NC person adding their name to the thread although I feel humbled by the stories on the last thread. I feel a bit like I'm showing up with the equivalent of a paper cut. blush

Anyway, my back story is I had DD 9 months ago. I had a prolonged rupture of membranes and was induced 36 hours later. It ended a day later in theatre with 5 epidurals and a spinal as I'm apparently resistant to those drugs. I had mid cavity forceps and an episotomy to second degree but I tore further to third degree.

At first all my NCT friends shared their war stories and wounds but then everyone else seemed to get better and it stops being the kind of thing you can talk about in real life.

I developed fissures around the tear which just won't ever fully heal (I'm hoping once I stop breastfeeding that might help) but in the meantime - ouch! Everything feels too tight and just hurts. Sex is pretty much non existent as it hurts although I was told that it would help the healing by my physio.

See I told you it was a paper cut. blush

LackaDAISYcal Fri 26-Oct-12 23:13:27

hello smile

Jacksmania Sat 27-Oct-12 05:47:42

RJ smile - it's NOT a paper cut. It isn't, so stop it! Everyone's injuries are relevant and important and just utterly shit. Nobody on this thread is allowed to compare herself to anyone else and feel ridiculous, or dismiss someone's else's injuries. Stop it or we will find you and plaster you with Tena Lady pads grin

Fissures are awful. I had an anal fissure that made it sixteen different kinds of hell to do a poo. <shudders at the memory>
What healed my fissure was taking magnesium capsules to soften my poo, mane not relevant to you, but also, I used Traumeel cream on my fissure to heal it. It's not really supposed to go on cuts or any kind of mucosa but someone told me about it, and I had nothing left to lose so I tried it. Miraculous!!!!!!! You can buy it on Amazon. If it does nothing for your fissures, it's still worth keeping around as its normally used for bruises and sprains/strains. Wonderful stuff.

Jacksmania Sat 27-Oct-12 05:48:46


RaggedyJay Sat 27-Oct-12 11:33:27

Hello Daisy! smile

Thanks Jacksmania you're very kind. I might look into Traumeel and magnesium. I'm on prune juice, fibrogel and lactulose which help. My diet probably doesn't so I'm my own worst enemy in that respect. Going back to work has helped - now its just stingy pain rather than I-want-vomit-and-pass-out pain. I actually have time to go for a poo at work. grin

Jacksmania Sat 27-Oct-12 16:24:01

Ha ha, yes! A nice relaxed poo with the door closed and no one hammering on it and shouting "MUMMMMEEEEEEEE!!!!"

But, the really important question is, have you read the "poo etiquette at work" threads? grin

Hi everyone. I am pg with dc5 . I had a third degree tear with dc1 which caused probs. I can't"hold on" , and recently just have no control whatsoever over wind which is just awful and mortifying and crap. I did experience the equally crap joys of ultrasound and manometry and they found an external sphincter defect. Not helped by the fact that I was originally told I had a second degree tear and it was sutured by a student.

Anyway, they did offer me cs but I declined after talking to the colorectal surgeon. I just feel its got so much worse recently. Anyway, nice to meet you all. I have lurked for ages.

RaggedyJay Sun 28-Oct-12 18:38:37

Hello silentmammoth sorry to hear you've suffered for so long. How angry that they missed your third degree year the first time.

Jacksmania I've not read those threads - they sound fun! grin [triple checks namechange] I tend to use the loo downstairs from my office as its another department so they won't recognise my voice if I yelp with pain. blush

Jacksmania Sun 28-Oct-12 21:13:17

Hi Mammoth, I'm so glad you de-lurked smile
Congratulations on DC5!!!!
What was the colorectal surgeon's opinion on CS? Not worth it, not likely to help you?
I remember not being able to hold wind and poo after DS was born. Mortifying. Just ghastly.

RJ, I'll see if I can find some links for you grin
Hold on it your pelvic floor reading!
sad re yelps of pain though sad

If you go on Amazon, look for Magnesium glycinate 1000 mg capsules. Best stool softener ever.

WhodveThought Sun 28-Oct-12 22:45:05

I won't post all my gory details here again, they are in the last thread if anyone wants them!

Today I found out that I need to have surgery to fix an anterior rectocele which has left me incontinent...I will post on the prolapse thread too but I just wondered if anyone on this thread may have had this done or have any advice? I am scared. This is my second surgery due to complications from a forceps delivery 2 years ago. I am only 30 years old and really scared that I will be like this for the rest of my life!

So. Fuck you very much universe and wretched midwife who told me there was no point in her advocating for my wishes to avoid forceps (which she told me while I was crying and in (unmedicated) labour). I was right. They should have avoided forceps.

Jacksmania Sun 28-Oct-12 23:54:16

I'm right there with you, wanting to say "fuck you" to my own wretched midwife. If it hadn't been for her piss-poor choices (and, ok, me allowing her to make choices for me) I wouldn't be as I am today.
I'm so sorry, Whodvethought. sad

I don't have any advice re anterior rectocele but maybe one of the regular from previous threads will spot this and pop in.

I believe forceps should be banned.

WhodveThought Mon 29-Oct-12 03:14:48

Yes. I think forceps should be banned too. I am yet to hear of a woman having a good birth experience were they are used.

RaggedyJay Mon 29-Oct-12 11:24:15

Whodhavethought I read your post on the other thread and I'm do sorry you went through that. sad

grimbletart Mon 29-Oct-12 16:34:03

Forceps = instruments of Satan.

Jacksmania Mon 29-Oct-12 17:07:43

Yup. Medieval torture devices.

Hmmmm... next Mumsnet campaign? I'm only half joking.

The damage done by forceps is fucking grim.

WhodveThought Mon 29-Oct-12 23:18:42

Thank has been wonderful finding this forum. So nice to meet other people who GET IT! Even though it's pretty wretched how many there are sad

Jacksmania Tue 30-Oct-12 03:37:16

Yes... I have all sorts of education in the medical field and had never ever heard that it was possible to become temporarily or permanently incontinent after childbirth. Until it happened to me.
And then there was no one to talk to. Until I found MN. I was half relieved to have found people who understood and more than half horrified that my story was one of the milder ones with, eventually, a pretty good outcome. I still can hardly believe some of the birth stories and injuries I've read about. Really? In this millennium, they still need to shred women's insides and outsides to get babies out?

This statement belongs on the Feminist threads (where I don't post)
- if men gave birth this stuff wouldn't happen. Or if it did, it would happen in a tiny fraction of cases.

cravingcake Tue 30-Oct-12 12:51:44

Hi, I have watched this thread for a while now but never needed to post. Until today.

I had my DS 12 months ago, traumatic delivery involving bad epidural, forceps, shoulder dystocia, episiotomy (which tore further) and I ended up with 4th degree tear. I feel I have been really lucky as generally felt my scars were healing. Recently more like about 3 months ago but never wanted to face up to reality i noticed a bit of extra skin where my perinium is, which has gotten bigger and is now painful.

So I have visited my GP today as I also have noticed a really 'heavy' feeling around my scars and can feel them, a bit like a bruise is the only way I can describe it. The lovely GP had a look and said yes I have a skin tag, there is growth on the scar tissue and looks like there is a defect. She has referred me to the gynae consultant I saw at the routine 16 week check-up but it will be a week or so before I get to see her. What I'm wondering is what the possible 'defect' is, she didnt say and I was a bit upset to ask at the time. My DH is away this week so feeling a bit fragile so definitely dont want to google anything.

Jacksmania Tue 30-Oct-12 19:23:34

Oh craving, I'm so sorry sad
A defect probably means that where your episiotomy was done, the skin is intact but the underlying muscle and connective tissue has separated. So there is more pressure on the scar tissue.
You'll very likely need it repaired sad

<offers hand to hold>

cravingcake Tue 30-Oct-12 19:57:31

Thanks Jacks its so nice to find others who know what its like and understand.

Is there anything I need to know, or specifically ask when I see the gynae? We are planning on having another child, so will definitely be asking how this may affect me in that way. I already know I would have an ELCS so its more the stress of a second pregnancy on my body, and if I'll need repairing before or after.

needsadviceplease Tue 30-Oct-12 20:34:44

Re forceps - I always want to point out, to the whole wide world, Odent's statement that he stopped using them in the 60s. His take was that ventouse or caesarean was always viable and always preferable.

Anyway, hello all. Forceps not my issue - I was lucky enough to have a really lovely birth, six months ago. However I did have a second degree tear, in spite of delivering in the perineum-friendly all-fours position. All the women in my family have torn, with fast labours, so I wasn't too surprised.

I developed a fissure about five weeks after the birth. I'm not sure how it was caused, but I do feel it's related to the tear or the stitches in some way. Miserable. I got referred to a CRS at 4m pp. He prescribed me a brilliant cream which cured me in a fortnight. I had a beautiful month and then relapsed. sad I had stupidly got a bit lax at applying cream twice daily. Think I'm on the mend again but far slower this time. Wish for the good old days of not stressing about poo. sad To the fissure sufferer up thread - I'd really recommend a prescription cream (I'm on diltiazem, but gtn and nifedipine are also used). Basically the anal sphincter goes into spasm which stops the wound from healing and means the softest poo feels like shards of glass - the cream stops the spasming.

I feel quite generally out of sorts Down Below. Like muscles are too tight/loose/generally out of balance somehow. No DP so no sex happily, I can't imagine ever wanting sex again. I love my baby and like I say I had a really lovely birth, but my body feels so wrecked by it all. <Self pity>

WhodveThought Tue 30-Oct-12 23:22:41

Hi, Cravingcake, I had my episiotomy repaired at 6 months pp after it tore at 10 weeks pp (long wait). The operation was straightforward and has held up well so far. I don't know how helpful my story is but I wanted to reassure you that in my case the surgery/recovery/pain was much, much less than when the tearing and episiotomy was originally done.

I found it helpful to ask lots of questions about what restrictions would be like in terms of weight I was allowed to carry, how long to wait before having sex again, what normal symptoms are following surgery. I had a look at myself after the surgery and freaked out because I thought the stitching had torn away, but it was FINE, just nobody had told me to expect to see a cut left in the skin, apparently they do that so it is less likely to tug and pull as you heal.

I am sorry you have to go through all this sad.

cravingcake Wed 31-Oct-12 19:29:53

Thanks whodvethought. It is helpful to hear of others who have had similar, and also to know what to ask. Now its just a waiting game.

gussiegrips Wed 31-Oct-12 21:39:37

You guys seen the featured blogger on today's front page?

Rahter brilliant account of broken fanjo and urodynamic testing. I'll be reading her stuff from now on!

Jacksmania Wed 31-Oct-12 23:32:50

No, I haven't! Will defo look. Thanks!!!

LackaDAISYcal Thu 01-Nov-12 14:14:11

Just a quick hello from me smile

Another ragged fanny/backside after a prolonged labour and brutal forceps delivery here sad Add to that coeliac disease and colitits and's hard sometimes to keep up the appearance of normality.

I had anal manometry testing and an anal ultrasound yesterday...waiting for a call back from my gynae with a follow up appointment to let me know the results. And I need to chase up the gynaecological physios as I had to cancel my last appointment due to illness and haven't heard back yet.

and it wasn't without irony that my appointment yesterday was on the fourth anniversary of me going into labour with the cause of my problems, bless his little heart!!

I am also having issues with irregular bleeding, but that's a whole other thread; I've just stopped bleeding after more than 30 days covering two periods. GRIM

If there is reincarnation I hope to the gods that I come back as a man!

Jacksmania Thu 01-Nov-12 20:10:36

Well, let's hope you don't come back as my poor client who just came in suffering from a testicular torsion (ouch!!!)

Two weeks until my gynae specialist appointment. We'll see what she says about my fallen fanjo and weird cycles.

thing1andthing2 Fri 02-Nov-12 10:39:37

Can I join you for a few weeks ladies? I need someone to hold my hand waiting for a mini pelvic floor repair next week, under a local anaesthetic. Yes, I am going to let someone cut into my genitals while I am awake. I'm waking up at 3am worrying about it.
My back story is that I had a homebirth with DC1 nearly three years ago. I tore, midwives said 2nd degree. The shift changed and I was left with a new mw who had a tremor in her hands and I let her stitch me up. Months later my perineum was still sore, and I had muscle laxity on the posterior wall (like a rectocele). It all got much worse in my 2nd preg, but I had my baby boy at home in July with no tearing and no stitches. Got a proper referral to a specialist gynae and he said the tear from the first birth was not stitched up properly leaving me with the rectocele and a hard ridge on the perineum which will always be sore especially during sex.
I'm having a cut and restitch next week and because ds is only 4 months old and breastfeeding, they will do it under LA with no sedative. I've just got to be brave. Please hold my hand.

Jacksmania Fri 02-Nov-12 14:08:47

<offers hand to hold>

<is speechless with admiration at your courage>

You're so brave thanks. Having said that, they can do a really really deep local anaesthetic using what's called a pudendal block. They infiltrate the pudendal nerves on either side of the perineum with lidocaine or marcaine or similar and really, you'll feel about as much as a block of wood.
It will be fine. The idea is terrible, I would have a hard time with the concept, but I'm positive you'll be glad you did it.
Hands are here as long as you need them. But you must update after!!!
Everyone's story helps the next person who finds this thread.

cravingcake Fri 02-Nov-12 14:43:13

<also offering a hand to Thing1>

I understand the awake at 3am worrying. I have been doing that too recently. You are very brave to have your procedure with local anesthetic, braver than me thats for sure.

LackaDAISYcal Fri 02-Nov-12 15:40:53

ooh, thing1, you ARE brave! Re the anaesthetic though; I had my gallbladder removed when my DS was 3 months old, and through all the research I did, everything said that once the anaesthetic is out of your system enough for you to be awake, then you are OK to breastfeed. I was in overnight after the op though and just left oodles and oodles of expressed milk, and then pumped and dumped. My DH brought DS2 in to the hospital in the afternoon/evening after the op and I fed him myself as much as I could during that time. The painkillers post op were no stronger than those given post C section so BFing on those was just fine.

It might be something to consider, if the thought of a local is worrying you that much.
The Breastfeeding Network and La Leche League had lots of info on GA and breastfeeding iirc.

thing1andthing2 Fri 02-Nov-12 19:52:33

Thank you all for your support. It's just a day case so I will be home same day but I can't have ds on the ward because its a surgical gynae ward dealing with miscarriages etc so they don't want happy smiley babies. I totally understand but I did cry when they said I couldn't have ds with me! So they said they would try to put me first on the list. I hope it is the pudendal block thing, that sounds good. I'm just going to try some hippy self-hypnosis and pretend I'm on a tropical beach or something while they snip and stitch my fanjo shock.
The next problem is we are away from home at the moment and have just discovered the MOT was due on the car yesterday and so if we can't get it MOT'ed tomorrow we're screwed for getting back in time for the op!

Jacksmania Sat 03-Nov-12 14:32:28

Oh crap shock
<crosses every available appendage>

Jacksmania Sat 03-Nov-12 14:34:53
thing1andthing2 Sun 04-Nov-12 09:24:15

Hooray, our 12 year old car passed its MOT! We're off home today (3 hour drive, with a 2 year old and a 4 month old. Fun fun fun).

Jacksmania Sun 04-Nov-12 15:30:28


Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!

thing1andthing2 Tue 06-Nov-12 11:47:44

Home from op now, all done and dusted v v quick. They put me first on the list, because I turned up with my baby and I think they wanted us all out of there ASAP!
Everyone was super nice. Walked to theatre at about 8.50. Legs in stirrups but draped all over with sheets and blankets. Having the local put in was a bit sore and zingy and I started to hyperventilate and get a bit worked up. So I asked for a sedative. By the time the anaesthetist had come in, asked me some questions and started looking for a vein, the surgeon said he was closing up. I hadn't even noticed him start. So I said don't bother with the sedative as the worst bit was over. They gave me oxygen to help me breathe slower and it was all finished by 9.10. Had a nice chat with the nurse in the recovery room and went back to the ward where I was given two cups of tea and a sandwich.
Home 2 hours later and my fanjo is very sore but I've got lots of painkillers and lots of help with the kids so I'm just going to stay in bed.
I'm crossing my fingers it will be ok... Hope I won't need to clutch my perineum to do a poo any more and maybe sex will be comfortable again if we ever find time to try! I've got to wait a month before trying to have sex.
Thanks for the handholding, I needed it.

How is everyone else doing?

Jacksmania Tue 06-Nov-12 15:39:30

So happy that it was over so quickly!
Big relief, hey?
I overdid it in the garden yesterday (planting trees and shrubs) and I have my period which means I'm grumpy and exhausted today.

cravingcake Tue 06-Nov-12 17:36:37

That all sounds really good for you Thing1. Hope you can have a peaceful night's sleep and take advantage of the help!

I'm still waiting for my appointment with the gynae consultant but have been promised it will be with me by Monday's post at the latest.

thing1andthing2 Sat 10-Nov-12 12:31:58

Feeling rubbish today. Still in pain when walking around or sitting and I'm finding doing a poo is preoccupying me for a lot of the time. I've been taking movicol to make sure I don't get constipated but needing to do a poo is so painful and I'm so scared of stretching or bursting the stitches. It also still feels like it all bulges downwards when I do get the courage to go to the loo so I'm not sure yet that the op has made any difference. sad
I guess the muscles have all been cut though so they aren't going to be at their strongest just yet.
On the upside I haven't had any coccyx pain since the operation (I'd been suffering with that since the birth of ds 4 months ago).
DH looked at it yesterday as I was worried I might be getting an infection, and he said it looked red and bruised but not out of the ordinary. I said did it look different from before and he said it was so long since he'd seen that part of me he couldn't remember what it looked like. sad I hope we can get some semblance of sex life up and running some time, but what with all the prodding and poking of my ladybits by doctors, plus breastfeeding and a baby who still feeds 3 times a night, I haven't got much sex drive, to be honest.

thing1andthing2 Sat 10-Nov-12 12:36:32

Ps sorry if I'm being insensitive to all the other ladies who are worse off than me, I am thinking of you all and know I should be pleased that I've at least had someone take me seriously and try and fix the problem smile

ChasedByBees Sat 10-Nov-12 13:25:25

You're not being insensitive at all, that sounds very unpleasant. Hope it improves soon, have you got any painkillers to cope with the pain?

PS I've been here before under a name change - I go on mumsnet on my phone and it's a real nuisance to keep name changing to contribute.

Jacksmania Sat 10-Nov-12 15:42:45

Hi Chased smile

Thing1 - seriously, everyone's concerns are important. Nothing is too trivial or less than anyone else's issue. Please know that we're here for you and anyone else whether you had your entire anatomy rearranged or got a paper cut smile
well, maybe not a paper cut grin

That sounds so uncomfortable. I can highly recommend microwaving a wheat bag so it's nice and warm and sitting on it. Gentle heat can feel so good on bruised and swollen bits. Also, a salt bath. I was told after both my repair ops to have lots if salt baths, to treat it just like I'd had a baby.

sad that the bulging down feeling is still there. Gah!!!!
When are you going for a follow-up visit to the surgeon/GP/anyone?

thing1andthing2 Sat 10-Nov-12 20:38:37

Thanks chased and jacks.
Got a follow up at the end of February, it seems a bit mad, but I guess if it heals well there's nothing else they can do so no point checking before then, if I get an infection I'm to go to the GP.
I'm taking ibuprofen and paracetamol, the hospital gave me codeine but I only took it once because I'm so afraid of constipation!
Anyway, I've done 3 poos today and I'm very proud of myself for only crying a little bit. Maybe I'll ease off on the movicol now! My DH has just gone to the shop to look for formula so I don't have to keep feeding our enormous, 98th centile baby.

Jacksmania Sat 10-Nov-12 22:18:39

Oh, I had one of those grin
Not at birth - although that might have been better for me. If he'd been humungous they might have pulled their heads out of their arses sooner and nipped him out through the sunroof. As it was they thought he was a small baby (he was, only 7 lbs 7 oz) so made me try to push him out and here we are hmm. But then I'd never have found MN. Was looking for support for my poor damaged bits and my poor damaged mind (PTSD and anxiety disorder after his birth). And my life is so much richer and funnier thanks to MN. smile

But I digress. Jackboy was born at 7 lbs 7 oz, dropped to 6 lbs 10 by the time I was discharged, and then when my milk came in he turned into a butterball grin. 8 lbs 4 oz by 2 weeks and 12 lbs by 6 weeks! He'd hit 20 lbs at 6 months. I have a picture of him propped on the sofa at 6 months in only a nappy (it was a hot July) and even his rolls had rolls grin

thing1andthing2 Sun 11-Nov-12 13:51:02

Yes sounds like ds. He was 8lb 8oz at birth so not humongous but then fed and fed and fed, hitting 14lb11 at 8 weeks and 18lb at 15 weeks. I haven't had him weighed since (he's 19 weeks today). I'm wondering about starting weaning early but I'm going to wait until he can sit up by himself. I did blw of sorts with DD but it was slow going getting her to take much so I might see if I can shovel purée into ds. Just so weaning goes quicker and he slackens off the breastfeeding a bit. I will wait till December at least though.
Happily I feel I've turned a corner today. The stitches are still zingy but the heaviness and bruising feeling has gone, I'm less scared of doing a poo and I've found getting up and staying upright doing a bit round the house is helping mu bowels get moving a bit more effectively.
I can kind of see a light at the end of the tunnel. Still in the far distance but still. I've got both kids on my own all day tomorrow so that should be fun hmm. I can't face lugging my double buggy in and out of the house (2 steps in and out) so I think we'll just stay home.

Jacksmania Sun 11-Nov-12 15:49:08

That's probably wise! I know I don't have to warn you about overdoing it smile
We've all been there. Feeling great, so doing more. Next day, feeling like crap.

Jacksmania Sun 11-Nov-12 15:50:55

Hit post too soon: meant to say, good luck with weaning your little turkey! Holy cow, you must have cream in there smile
There was no chance if weaning mine early. He was stapled to my breast for a full year before he'd even entertain the idea of anything else.

thing1andthing2 Tue 13-Nov-12 20:26:24

Just came on to say it's a week since the operation now and I'm feeling loads better. I can sit for up to an hour as long as I've got my soft cushion, and I've looked after both children for two whole days on my own with no apparent relapses! Even pooing is getting less scary and I am starting to feel like I might one day be able to poo normally. Painkillers down to 3x a day...
Just wish ds would sleep a bit and everything would be rosy....

Jacksmania Tue 13-Nov-12 21:00:43

You're doing so well!! smile I'm so happy for you.

Having a tough week myself. Baaaaaaad case of nerves. Specialist gynae appt coming up on Friday. Will discuss my prolapse, the polyp my GP found at my last smear, my irregular cycles and where to go from here. Am feeling anxious and fraught and am being horrible to my poor DH because I'm just so bloody scared of another op and everything that goes with it... but also want it sorted.

WhodveThought Wed 14-Nov-12 20:19:39

Jacks-good luck with the waiting and the appointment. I am right there with you holding your hand in terror of more surgery. Hugs.

thing1andthing2 Wed 14-Nov-12 21:02:59

Poor you Jacks. Hope your gynae is super nice and you can get something sorted out. Let us know how it goes.

Jacksmania Wed 14-Nov-12 22:13:15

She is lovely, she did my first repair (the internal one from thread one, I think, in 2009). Thank goodness for that.
I will definitely keep you all posted. Thanks for the handholding, I really need it.

belindarose Fri 16-Nov-12 08:12:59

Hello, I think this thread may be my spiritual home. I'm only four months post childbirth so possibly it's just a matter of time, but I'm definitely not back to 'normal'. Have plucked up the courage to see GP this morning but very embarrassed to tell her I can't control farts at all and they're constant. And that I'm terrified of pooing myself (although it hasn't happened yet - but many near misses). And I need to poo many times a day, when before DC2 it was only once.

I've been doing the exercises. What shall I say to the GP?

cravingcake Fri 16-Nov-12 13:49:57

Belindarose - hope your appointment was ok. The hardest bit is often making the appointment so well done. What have they suggested?

Jacks - hope your appointment goes well and you wont need more surgery. I've got my fingers crossed for you.

Thing - great to hear you are doing better.

I've finally got my appointment for gynae consultant in 2 weeks time, feeling a bit nervous but quite looking forward to it in a way so I can hopefully get some answers as to what extent my defect is and what my options are. The unknownness of it all is what I'm struggling to deal with.

thing1andthing2 Sat 17-Nov-12 08:43:34

Hi everyone! Just checking into to see how jacks got on with her appointment!
Belinda! hi! <waves>. How did your appointment go? Did you manage to speak to the doc about your problem? What response did you get? Did you have a tear that needed stitching? Maybe you didn't get stitched properly, that's what happened to me, I just had a quick cut and restitch and am recovering well.
Hope everyone else is well.

belindarose Sat 17-Nov-12 08:46:48

Thanks. GP didn't seem to think there was much of a problem when she examined me, so is referring to physio in the first instance. It wasn't hard in the end. She was very nice and I had the baby to distract me.

thing1andthing2 Sat 17-Nov-12 09:15:19

Oh and Belinda, yes yes to the pelvic floor exercises! Could you ask for a referral to a specialist physio? She can check you are doing the exercises right and give you feedback on your muscle tone. I'm still seeing mine and I find her very helpful.

thing1andthing2 Sat 17-Nov-12 09:21:48

Hi again, sorry I cross posted! Great that you've got a physio referral.
Just be aware that GPs don't have specialist knowledge of birth injuries so if you're not happy with the improvement following physio press for a referral to a specialist pelvic floor gynaecologist. They will have a much better idea if what you are experiencing is "normal" or not. Well, in my experience anyway. When I saw my gynae he immediately picked up on my sore, non stretchy perineum which every other HCP had said looked fine and normal.

Midgetm Sat 17-Nov-12 15:43:15

<pops head round door, runs away, wishes hadn't run as now everything feels like it falling out so comes back again>

Hoping I can find some shreds of positivity after doctor google scared the crap bad choice of phrase out of me.

2 DC's one month pp and the the doctor thinks I have a prolapse. I think it may be my bladder. Goes back in with PFE and rest. Totally bereft. Everything feels wrong. Hoping that as I am so soon after delivery this may get better. please someone say it might

Had recurring uti's bad constipation and what a thought was a varicose vein in pregnancy but wonder if this was all the beginning of the problem. Begged my consultant for a c-section as this was my worst fear.

GP says looks like a prolapse, to do PFE and go back at 6 weeks. I wanted to get some wisdom from you lovely people.

Is there any chance this can clear up as I am so soon after delivery? Or am I deluding myself.

Should I be pushing for referral straight to physio as my logic tells me it won't just go away in its own with a bit of clenching... Already having problems with urgency and walking feels uncomfortable as feels like things could drop out.

Will I ever be able to run, exercise, lift my bloody children and have sex again? Trying to be positive but feel mortified. Ordered the HAB it DVD and going to try my best to fix this but really need to hear from other people to shift this feeling of doom... I feel broken.

Jacksmania Sat 17-Nov-12 16:28:54

<gently leads midgetm by the hand to the very comfy Raggedy Room Couch, offers tea/coffee/--alcoholic beverage of choice-- and a hand to hold>

IMO it is pretty soon after birth but if it feels all wrong to you then push for a referral straight away. Especially if you live somewhere where there can be long waits for referrals. Nothing wrong with getting ahead of the game - if it then turns out you don't need the specialist, it's easy enough to cancel and someone else can have your appointment.

I don't know if you read back through the two previous nearly full threads if you have that kind of time I'm jealous, or you have baaaaaaad insomnia but I had one of those trainwreck births, and had what you're describing - the feeling that everything was falling out, plus incontinence. It does get better with PFE. I promise you it does. You do need to be diligent about them, though, if you only do them every few weeks... not so much smile

What I'd suggest, though, is (without freaking yourself out) to monitor your progress carefully and be honest with yourself about how well or how badly you're doing. Denial does not help here. And if you have the feeling that it's all still fairly pear shaped after 6 months, really go after a specialist referral. 6 months sounds and does occasionally feel like a long time, I do get that. But that's a fair length of time to see if conservative measures will help.

Hang in there smile

Jacksmania Sat 17-Nov-12 16:51:30

Hit post too soon - oops.

Thank you so much to everyone who asked after my appointment yesterday.

Most of you weren't on the old thread so I'll briefly bore you with bits of my backstory - you know the physical details (long second stage, forceps, 3rd/4th degree tear, urinary and bowel incontinency. Had my first (internal repair) in 2009 when DS was a year old, when they repaired my vaginal wall which was a horrendous mess of scar tissue. Second (external) repair late 2010, scar revision of episiotomy and fixing my shredded labia. My uterus was prolapsing mildly, and those symptoms worsened in the last year or so, to the point where I asked my GP for a referral back to my lovely surgeon in September.
I had PTSD quite badly after DS's birth. Also terrible anxiety, for which I've had lots of treatment. Most of the time it's under control. At times like yesterday it does rear its ugly head.

If it weren't for the fact that I have to see her when I'm having problems, I would really enjoy spending time with my surgeon. Really, she's the kindest person I've ever come across - recognized me straight away and gave me a hug - to the surprise of the young resident she had with her grin

BTW - I'm in Canada, not the UK, so if I'm using unfamiliar terms please let me know.
A resident is what we call young doctors who have finished medical school (4 years after a 4-year uni degree), have done their internship (first year after medical school) and are pursuing a specialty (usually another 4 or 5 years, depending. Family medicine would be 2 years, general surgery 4 years, specialist fields 5 years and up, followed, possibly, by what's called a fellowship).

Lovely young resident is specializing in OB/GYN and had, conveniently for me, done her rounds in urogynaecology already so was very familiar with prolapse issues. The clinical part of me really enjoyed listening to the interplay between her and my lovely Dr. Williams, as they mutually educated each other about different things. The hurt broken part of me was of course mildly freaking out sad
Anyway, apparently the polyp my GP found at my smear appointment a few weeks ago is no big deal, it's on the cervix and can easily be removed, and is just a polyp. Dr. Williams offered to remove it right then and there but the thought sent me into mild hysterics, so she said we'd book a different appointment and she'd sedate me a bit and then remove it. <phew>

Testing for a prolapse is really very uncomfortable. I avoid bearing down heavily as much as I can so to actually have to do it and feel my uterus kind of squidging downward is... not great. Eventually after much rummaging around, we discussed options, which are to leave it alone until it really falls out, which they did not recommend, and referring me to a urogynaecologist surgeon to get it fixed. Obviously I picked option B.

Interestingly, the old way of fixing it used to be a hysterectomy, with "trimming" of excess tissue in the vagina. However, given my age (43) and activity level (quite active) that wouldn't be a good choice because with only the cervix left in place, there's not much tissue to fix to the top of the vaginal vault, so if that rips off due to heavy physical exertion, you're essentially hooped as the cervix will then flop down and prolapse into the vagina. And then the repair is challenging. Newer methods appear to be leaving the uterus in place, hauling it upwards, attaching a sort of mesh, as they do for repairing groin hernias, and attaching all that to the front of the sacrum (the flat bone in the small of the back). Which should be fairly bomb-proof.

So, there we are. Referral being initiated, who knows how long the wait is, though. Polyp going to be removed some time in December or January and I will be back for more hand-holding for that!!!

Sorry this turned into such a long story but as I was typing it out I realized it was quite therapeutic to get it out. Feel free to just skim smile

Emotionally I just felt shattered after the appointment. Although it can all be fixed and both doctors were lovely I just wanted to curl up in a ball and wail. I hate this. I hate being broken, and having to have more surgery, and feeling like I have to keep it all in and be the "together" person everyone thinks I am. i do have friends in RL and they're lovely but I just hate talking about all this.

Thanks if you've read this far.

thing1andthing2 Sat 17-Nov-12 20:20:26

Oh jacks I'm so sorry to hear you are in for more surgery. I totally get what you mean about the broken body thing too. I hate it too. I feel so angry all the time and don't know where to direct my anger! It's not nice anticipating more surgery and more recovery time, especially with little children to look after. Big big hugs and lots of hands to hold, I really feel for you. I also hate the rummaging and poking and prodding that goes with these injuries. It's just so sore. And so unsexy, like your vag becomes something medical not something intimate. I found it so hard to get over that (I still haven't).

I looked at my vulva in the mirror yesterday. I think I've coped by just compartmentalising it as not part of me, just something that's not me but which needs fixing. Yesterday I looked at it and it just looked.... Normal? It looked ok, just like a vulva, but a bit red. I think I felt a slight shift to feeling like it is part of me. Maybe I'll get a sex drive one day? Although I think I am going to need some therapy to really get back to anything regular.

BTW, A resident is called a registrar in the UK.

ChasedByBees Sun 18-Nov-12 08:04:54

So sorry to hear you're booked in for more surgery Jacks but pleased you have a lovely surgeon and a plan of action. I hope getting it out here helped.

Midgetm and Belinda, welcome (but sorry you're here too if you know what I mean).

cravingcake Sun 18-Nov-12 08:54:07

Jacks sorry to hear you need more surgery. Its so exhausting some days so not surprised you want to curl up in a ball & hide. I get that too sad and i've not even had surgery yet but definitely feel like part of me is broken (and today its all throbbing and painful).

Midgetm Sun 18-Nov-12 10:08:46

Thanks for the welcome everyone and thank for the wine jacks. I have done a lot of back reading now and I doff my hat at you ladies, you have all been through so much. It was really helpful and made me feel a bit more honest about my symptoms. And made me more driven to sort this mess out and maybe be brave enough to look properly rather than rummage last time I looked I looked like a baboon.

I am pretty sure it is a prolapse just not sure what! The tear i had was pretty much healed so to suddenly get worse was really crap. I as well as something hanging Out i Also have bulges in a couple of places (near my bum) and of course piles. The ironic thing is I used to have a pelvic floor of steel - think this didn't help me when it came to pushing as used to holding it up, not letting it out. But maybe this will help with recovery desperately grasps at straws whilst grasping jacks hands too

Thanks Again for the welcome and making me feel less alone. And sorry for all the crap you have all been through, it has helped me gain much needed perspective.

Jacksmania Mon 19-Nov-12 05:49:56

Thanks for all your kind words everyone. I'm a bit more resigned to it today. Couldn't sleep last night thinking about everything and was going over in my mind how Dr Williams described the prolapse repair procedure and it made me feel quite ill to think this was actually going to happen to me sad
It's all rather shit, isn't it sad

Anyway, it's nice to have people I can talk to about it, although I'm sorry we all gave to be here.
More wine, anyone?

I haven't really been able to bring myself to tell DH in detail about the appointment. I'm not sure why. He's lovely and supportive. Unjust think that maybe I don't want to say the words aloud - it makes it all so dreadfully real.

How are all your DHs/DPs dealing with your various troubles?

Jacksmania Mon 19-Nov-12 05:53:10

*have to be here
Not "gave". Stupid autocorrect.
Although not nearly as funny as on another thread where "muslins on the sofa" was corrected to "Muslims on a sofa". The poster hastens to clarify that what she found on the sofa was spit-up cloths, not a welcoming committee from the local mosque grin
I was completely helpless with giggles reading, when DH asked what was so funny I could only manage to flap my hands and wheeze grin

Midgetm Mon 19-Nov-12 11:05:58

Oh jacks hope you managed to get some shut eye. It took 24 hours after my doctors appointment to tell DH it was a prolapse. And then I kind of whispered it. And he doesn't really know what I mean but neither do I at this stage. I think everyone will understand what you mean. DH is the only person in rl I have told. And not in any detail.I think it may stay that way for now.

Hardly surprising that you are freaking out about more surgery. Positivity is great when you can find it but sometimes (especially now) you need a great big freak out. Life can throw more than its fair share of shit at people.

Just wanted to hold your hand and offer wine even though it is a tad early here. I succumbed to the Wine for real last night as was throwing myself a pity party.

Trying to pull my socks up and my pelvic floor today and take positive action. Ordered HAB it DVD and got physio referral from GP. Gp was lovely told me early days, try and remain positive and not to over do it. Luckily I just spoke to him so no examination to depress me. Still none the wiser in what the hell is hanging out. Seems trivial after all you are going through, will remind self when next pity party comes along but still have the really nice chateau neuf anyway

whizmum Mon 19-Nov-12 12:37:57

Hi - a quick one as I am off to my ballet class.

I have read all of this thread and half the previous one and have been inspired to see if there is something that can be done with my pelvic floor. I have not been able to poo normally since the birth of DS1 (he is 21 blush) and have made an appointment with 'nice' GP. Unfortunately, I cannot see the 'gynae' GP as she now spends her time at their other surgery (I cannot keep up with the comings and goings of that place!) and have to wait until the 30th sad

I had a tear in the back vaginal wall and fanjo skin up to clitoris, as a result of pushing when I was told to during fast first delivery (3H 15mins - the 15 mins was waiting for the placenta) and DS coming out with his hand over his head. And IMHO, the mw trying to get him out too quickly.


ps - 8 years of ballet and contemporary dance have helped with muscle tone, and also with knackered tummy - result of being slim and having twins.

Jacksmania Mon 19-Nov-12 19:10:06

Bleurgh. BLEURGH!!!
Had to go back to GP this morning to get smear re-done. Lovely GP, one of my favourite people. Cried on her shoulder about how crap I'm feeling about all this. Which helped. But then when she re-did my smear test (it couldn't be read last time) of course she had to touch the polyp on my cervix, and it started to bleed. And bleed. And it's still bleeding. Not gushing, just seeping, and it will stop, but I'm achy and crampy and just really unhappy.

Did someone say cake?

If not, they should have.

Midgetm Mon 19-Nov-12 20:42:10


Jacksmania Mon 19-Nov-12 20:51:14

Thanks - don't mind if I do grin

what kind am I having?

Midgetm Tue 20-Nov-12 09:12:44

Chocolate cup cakes and carrot cake? Just got my Hab it DVD. Feel tiny but if hope. Hope is good

Midgetm Tue 20-Nov-12 12:19:09

Tiny bit of hope (damn you autocorrect)

Jacksmania Tue 20-Nov-12 17:43:47

<scoffs cake>

Hope is indeed good smile

cravingcake Tue 20-Nov-12 22:55:02

Cake & wine is definitely required. Should be prescribed really when having one of those days when nothing goes right, or the smallest thing upsets the balance.

I think i've worked out why i've been in more pain than usual, its a new PMT sympton. Just started the worst heaviest period i've had in a long time. Anyone else get this?

Cake & wine is the only thing keeping me sane. Theres more wine in the fridge & cake sliced if anyone wants to help themselves grin

Jacksmania Wed 21-Nov-12 01:25:26

I recently saw recipe for Triple Caramel Cake. I think that's the next must-try.

When I have my period, my entire perineum aches. I feel like I've been kicked in the crotch with steel-toed boots. The ache only goes away when I lie down.

Midgetm Wed 21-Nov-12 10:39:53

Triple caramel cake? Nom
Nom. I may bake myself bake to my pregnancy Weight.

cravingcake Wed 21-Nov-12 17:41:52

Triple Caramel sounds very good, although I'm leaning more towards a heavy thick chocolate cake, heated in the microwave to just warm and a little bit gooey. mmmmmm

Jacksmania Thu 22-Nov-12 01:35:17

Anyone up for a recipe swap?

We just arrived in Toronto (GMT -5) at my mum's. I haven't talked to her about the consultant appointment in detail yet. Talked a little bit to DH about it today. He does a specialized kind of bodywork called Rolfing or Structural Integration and had a client a year or do ago who had terrible unremitting perineal pain from a vasectomy gone wrong. He was actualky able to relieve most, if not all, the client's pain (I was so ridiculously proud of him). He mentioned this client today, and how the ongoing pain had caused him to suffer from depression and anxiety, and then paused and said "that must be what it's like for you. If only it could be fixed without surgery." DH doesn't always say much (I certainly don't go on about my problems anymore, why bother, talking about it doesn't help) but it was nice to feel like he really "got it".

Midgetm Thu 22-Nov-12 07:51:50

Jacks must be So nice that your DH 'Gets it'. Mine is still in the 'shit happens when you have a kid' and you wouldn't swap your children so why whinge stage' hmm. I have already googled triple chocolate cake... Nom nom

cravingcake Thu 22-Nov-12 17:49:36

Jacks, that must be nice to hear. I dont think blokes realise how much something so simple like that means.
Midget, thats about where mine is too. He will listen but is very much of the 'well you dont know what exactly is wrong yet so dont worry about it until you know'. (which all going well will be Wednesday next week when I see the gynae consultant).

I havent ever made chocolate cake, I normally buy it. But I do make a mean cheesecake and carrott cake.

Jacksmania Thu 22-Nov-12 20:11:20

Cheese and carrot cake? <eeww> envy


cravingcake Thu 22-Nov-12 20:41:28

Ohhh, yes agree cheese and carrot cake would be ewww!

Just to clarify, i have a great recipe for cheesecake and another great recipe for a carrott cake smile

0120LISA17 Sat 24-Nov-12 08:18:23

hi guys im a bit late on this thread, i wondered if anyone is still here? im in need of someone to talk to. I had a beautiful baby boy 11 weeks ago, but with a horrific birth - lost nearly 2.5 pints of blood, had forceps with an epistomy and a 4th degree tear to the internal and external schpinter muscles. Leaving me with a colostomy which im told is temporary until they heal from the stitches. Im damnned sure i have a fistula (connected bwteen my vag and my bum) which mens further operations before they even THINK about reversing my colostomy. I have 3 main tests to go through before any of that but my main question is has anybody been through this, what happened, etc, thanks

Jacksmania Sat 24-Nov-12 14:58:49

Hi LISA, there were several posters on the last two threads who've been through a similar experience. I'm so sorry, how utterly horrible for you. sad
I'm on my phone which makes searching a bit difficult, but will try to borrow my mum's laptop later (we're away visiting her). Meanwhile, if you do an advanced search, in this topic (General Health) and search posts by Cyee, KellyKettle or ThingOne (not thing1thing2 who's already on here) - I don't have all the stories straight but one, if not more of them, have had a colostomy. Perhaps reading their stories will help enough, if not, I guarantee none of them would mind if you PMd them for advice. Or perhaps start your own thread, maybe colostomy in the title will draw those who have experience to share.
But do please come back here for handholding and ongoing support. We're good at that.
Congratulations on your little one - but it's bittersweet, isn't it, when you're so happy on one hand, and on the other so shellshocked and aghast at how wrong it all went.
I remember thinking for months after (DS is now 4.9) that I couldn't believe what had happened.

Sympathies, cake, brew and/or wine. Or all of the above.

WhodveThought Sat 24-Nov-12 18:56:07

I am so sorry for everything you have gone through LISA. That sounds so traumatic. Wish there was something more helpful I could add, but you have all my sympathy.

cravingcake Sat 24-Nov-12 19:19:43

lisa i really feel for you. I had 4th degree tear 13 months ago but not to the extent you have had (didnt need colostomy). The ladies here are very kind and if nothing else are very good at reassuring/handholding while waiting for results and appointments.

I can only offer another hand to hold and cyber cake as i'm still waiting for a gynae consultant appointment to find out whats wrong with me.

0120LISA17 Sat 24-Nov-12 19:58:29

hi guys thank you so much for replying it makes me feel like im not totally alone in it all. im still a bit shell shocked with it all but as time goes on i think it would help to talk to others that have had a similar thing happen to them. CRAVINGCAKE did you tear your spincter muscles? i was left waiting for theatre for over 3 hours before they realised to what extent what had actually happened 'up there', im told injured muscles retract over time which may not have helped. i do hope you get some good results from your gynae. Thanks JACKSMANIA i will do that, sending you all hugs and thanks again xxx

WhodveThought Sun 25-Nov-12 06:23:01

LISA it is really good that found this site! We are all so happy to listen and offer sympathy and wine. It's just so unfair that you needed to find somewhere like this in the first place.

You aren't alone.

cravingcake Sun 25-Nov-12 08:14:47

Lisa, yes i did. I had traumatic birth too, with forceps, episiotomy which also tore. We also had shoulder dystocia (when head is out but shoulders stuck). Thankfully the consultant recognised straight away the extent of my tear and i was wheeled straight into surgery within about 30 mins after delivery. Maybe the delay for you was also that there wasnt surgery available as someone may have already been in there?

I hadnt had problems with incontenence until recently, and so felt like i'd been really lucky and got away with it but i've been back to gp who immediatley said that i have a defect, which the lovely mums on here were able to tell me more about. And also i have skin tag and overgrowth of my scars.

I had ptsd and pnd and have had counselling to help me understand what happened and come to terms with it.

Jacksmania Sun 25-Nov-12 13:29:23

Bloody PTSD angry sad

Jacksmania Sun 25-Nov-12 13:29:51

PTSD is terrible.

seabuckthorn Sun 25-Nov-12 14:24:46

Hello, another ragged undercarriage here!
I need some advice really, I'm 10 days pp with an unstitched 2nd degree tear and some pretty hideous piles. Piles are being sorted with prescription cream- seems to be working really well.
The tear is healing nicely apparently with a tiny extra flap of skin.
I've had an episiotomy with my first which took about 12 weeks to heal, in hindsight it was bloody horrendous and although I showed and told midwives no one cared. Had a terrible dragging aching feeling, much like a heavy period.
I had a tiny tear with my second and was fine, healed well.
I am experiencing that dragging feeling again and I know it's early days but ow also feeling some pressure. Still bleeding but that normal...I think.
I can't stand up for very long,
Can anyone advise? Sorry to dump my story on you but I have no one in RL to talk to about it.
Thank you smile
P.S I agree PTSD is really quite horrid sad

Jacksmania Sun 25-Nov-12 14:38:13

Ugh, that dragging feeling sad and not being able to stand up.
I think that's what happens post-partum when your pelvic floor is knackered and don't hold things up well.
Do you think you could just gently start PFEs? Just a gentle pulling-everything-up kind of exercise? You probably won't feel much and I don't know if it will do anything, but could be worth a try.

Congratulations on your little one but sad that you have to go through this.

Jacksmania Sun 25-Nov-12 14:39:04

And we're here to have stories "dumped on us" smile

seabuckthorn Sun 25-Nov-12 14:58:57

Thank you for replying!
God it's crap isn't it? My DS3 is such a sweet little thing I'm gutted to be going through again.
I'll try some pelvic floors/ lifting everything up.
I shouldn't be lifting toddlers should I? Seem to vaguely recall hearing something about that? I wonder if picking DS1 and 2 up was actually not a wise move and might be contributing to the pain I'm in sad
Should I be doing some exercises? Why has no one given me any info?

cravingcake Sun 25-Nov-12 15:13:24

Seabuck, definitely do some pelvic floor excercises whenever you think about (maybe while feeding DS3). Like Jacks said, you probably wont be able to feel it but it will help. Maybe try taking arnica as well to help with any brusing, and ibuprofen will reduce swelling.

No idea whether you should be lifting toddlers but maybe wherever possible get others to lift (i.e. DH carry and put to bed, you can still give them a kiss goodnight).

You could contact your midwife and let her know that you have that same dragging feeling (its awful isnt it) and you want some advice as to what you should or shouldnt do. You could also contact your GP and ask them to have a look at it too, although they may say its too early to tell if theres anything wrong.

And congratulations on your baby.

cravingcake Wed 28-Nov-12 20:57:54

Hi, I'm after some opinions....

I've seen a gynae consultant today (who called in head consultant) who both did a thorough internal exam and said that everything is ok, in the sense of no problems with a defect (despite what gp said just 3 weeks ago), but where i was stitched is painful so they've offered a re-fashion of my perinium, which has a 50/50 chance of being effective.

Is it worth the surgery & pain recovering? They both also said that my heavy dragging feeling is just part of childbirth, where things have moved and have found their 'new' position. They said they couldnt fix that feeling, just possibly reduce the pain from my scars (internal, but near the outside).

Any advice, comments etc welcome.

At the moment i'm thinking its worth a go, 50% chance it will improve my pain so not a lot to lose other than a couple of weeks of pain/recovery.

Thanks in advance.

Jacksmania Wed 28-Nov-12 21:25:15

I'd go for it.
Hate to post and run, I will be back, but yeah - I'd do it.

thing1andthing2 Thu 29-Nov-12 08:05:16

Hi craving cake, that's pretty much what I just had - refashioning the perineum as well as stitching up the muscles of the back wall. On my discharge letter it said "repair of defective perineum" hmm
It was only 3 weeks ago so I can't tell you how much difference it has made. I am still supporting my perineum when I poo but there isn't really a bulge or anything, it just all feels tender. The surgeon advised a month's wait before having sex. I will report back on that when I'm brave enough to try (previously it was quite sore).
In terms of recovering, I had the op on Tuesday morning and I spent the rest of the week in bed unable to sit. It felt uncomfortable lifting even my baby (although he does weigh 20lbs!). Saturday I turned a corner and then by the next Tuesday, so one week after the op, I was looking after both children, even taking them both to the singing group and dancing around. By two weeks after the op I could sit comfortably on a soft cushion. I managed on paracetamol and ibuprofen and really the main pain (as long as I wasn't sitting) was trying to do a poo. Pooing felt very weird for about a week.

Hope that helps with making up your mind, everyone is different of course, but if you know what you might be dealing with in terms of op and recovery it might help you decide if the chance of improvement is worth it.

Gingerbreadlatte Thu 29-Nov-12 10:08:08

Hi everyone,
I posted a while back with fears about having my 2nd child after sustaining damage from the birth of my first daughter who was very large (almost 11lbs and i had bladder issues- urine urge issues and feeling that something was 'hanging out' which i think was cystocele)

You lovely ladies gave some lovely replies but I didnt come back as I was in denial about what might happen this time. blush

Roll forward a couple of months. I've had my 2nd baby. A lovely 2nd daughter who was nearly 10lbs so not small but the birth was much easier (amazing experience!!) with very short 2nd stage.

Im now 4wks post partum and I can feel the above issues again. They have only just appeared, I can assume due to swelling/ bruising in area but now i have the hanging out thing.

I know its early days, and hormones need to settle but I am beside myself about feeling like this for months again. Is there anything anyone knows that can be done to hold things in place for me? A pessary type thing? I am desperate. I cant be going to loo all the time, and feeling like this.

I am disproportionately upset about it today. I really need help ASAP but think I will be fobbed off by GP as it being too early.....

tia x

thing1andthing2 Thu 29-Nov-12 12:01:16

Oh Ginger, I'm so sorry to hear about your current experiences. It's not too early to get a referral to the gynae, especially as its a long standing problem. My gp made the referral for me after coming to do my house to do the new baby check when my baby was one day old (homebirth). (I had had the prolapse throughout pregnancy). I saw the gynae at 10 weeks postpartum. I had done my PFEs religiously and he was very happy with my pelvic floor strength and advised surgery straight away. I had a rectocele so I don't know if the advice will be different for a cystocele but I can't see why it should be.
If your gp is reluctant to refer just remind them that this isn't a new problem and it isn't going to go away (well hopefully it will but I always think its better to present worst case scenarios to doctors).
And loads of congratulations on your new DD! How wonderful, I hope you are managing to enjoy her despite feeling the same old problems.
And yes, I think ring pessaries are good for cystoceles if you want to put off surgery for a bit.

Gingerbreadlatte Thu 29-Nov-12 22:18:59

Thank for your post Thing1. I will get to the drs and I will also try and seek advice from women's physio that I had before. It's great to know there are pessary options. Have you had successful surgery? Did you have to be sure you didn't want more children before hand ?

Thanks again. smile

thing1andthing2 Fri 30-Nov-12 12:18:27

Yes I had surgery 3 weeks ago, ds was 18 weeks old. He just put some extra stitches in the back wall of my vagina to tighten up the muscles and refashioned the perineum. I think for a cystocele it's a different procedure, it might be more complicated, some of the other ladies on here could help with that. I don't want anymore children so it was straightforward for me to get it done right away.
Whether it was successful or not I'm not sure yet... smile

cravingcake Sat 01-Dec-12 11:46:41

Thanks for your info Thing & Jacks. I'm away at moment so only able to get on mn on my phone, & not often. Theres lots to consider.

Gingerbread, hope you have managed to get in touch with your gp.

cravingcake Thu 06-Dec-12 17:00:17

Just a quick update, i've decided to go ahead with the surgery & am booked for the 8th of Feb. Pre-asessment wont be until 23rd of Jan so have a few weeks to worry think of any questions.

Feeling quite nervous about it but after a long weekend of two 5hr car journeys & then non-stop housework and christmas shopping this week i definitely am feeling it so know it has to be worth a shot.

I think my main worry is the GA, the pain once the drugs wear off & risk of infection.

Jacksmania Fri 07-Dec-12 00:19:44

Craving, I'm so glad you went ahead and booked the surgery. I think it will be worth it.
For what it's worth I always worry a bit about the GA, and then every time it's nothing. I'm always a bit dopey after but have never felt ill.
Pain - ask for really good pain control.
Infection - you'll most likely be given antibiotics. And when you go home, have salt baths. Every day. As hot as you can, for 15 mins. They really help with swelling and keeping everything clean.

I've just had a call to tell me my polyp removal has been changed to Jan 10. At 8:30 am. Happy days. That means we have to leave around 6:30 or 7 to get there with Vancouver traffic. Bleurgh.

thing1andthing2 Tue 11-Dec-12 09:26:56

Hi everyone! It's over a month since my op and yesterday I went to see a lovely GP to ask her to look at it. I am still supporting my perineum to poo and the vaginal entrance is still sore and prickly and I was worried it wasn't healing properly. Also I'd found a lump of scar tissue at the entrance which I didn't have before.
The GP examined me and said the repair looked good and I didn't need to support my perineum anymore, I was probably just doing that because I was nervous, however she did say there was an internal stitch poking through the skin which was causing the lump and the pain and pulling feeling. The surgeon has said these internal stitches in the muscle wouldn't dissolve for 3 months. The GP said I couldn't live with that poking me for 3 months so she's referred me back to have it removed (ouch).
She also noted my extreme anxiety about the whole thing (I cried all through the consultation) and reassured me repeatedly that the op looked successful and things would get back to normal eventually. I'm feeling quite a lot better now. I don't know why the whole thing bothers me so much but hopefully when this stitch is sorted I can put it all behind me!
How are the rest of you doing?

cravingcake Wed 12-Dec-12 14:16:32

I've had a rough week or two, and have been back to my GP this morning as I just didnt feel the gynae consultant that I saw really understood where my pain is, and I dont think (going on my instincts here) the surgery they are offering will fix me.

I had a really good chat with my GP and she has recommended a different gynae consultant for me to see for a second opinion and she said she was quite annoyed with the original consultant I saw as she should have seen easily that its not just a skin tag and scar tissue that is the problem.

Feeling rather exhausted by it all at the moment, have not been sleeping properly, dont have anyone in RL who understands what this is like or that wants to talk about it. I'm not coping with anything that well at the moment - having some building work done to the house, I'm taking my ex-boss to court for non-payment of maternity & redundancy pay, we've recently decided to move 5 hours away from where we live now so trying to sort through things and find a new house, all while my DH works away during the week (hence deciding to move to improve this situation). I've been prescribed citalopram to help with my anxiety/stress levels (I've had it before) so hoping it will kick in fast and help get me back to a place where I can cope. Think an afternoon curled up on the sofa with my DS watching TV is in order to try to relax and chill out.

Sorry for rant, just need to get it out some days.

Thing1, glad things are improving. When are they removing the stitch? Hopefully before christmas.

cravingcake Wed 12-Dec-12 21:04:49

Jacks, thank you also for your message, i had to run earlier but wanted to say i will still go ahead with surgery just want to have 2nd opinion to make sure its the right surgery if that makes sense.

At least you have the distraction of Christmas & new year to take your mind off your polyp removal (i'm always trying to find the positives in any situation).

SimLondon Fri 14-Dec-12 23:32:45

wow you ladies are v.brave. I went to see my gp about things coming out of the wrong hole a few weeks post birth and he told me I couldnt possibly have a fissure - because i would have had to have been in the pushing stage for several days to get a fissure. Same GP also decided not to do an internal at the 6 weeks check, because he'd never come across a problem before.

Is it just me or do I need a new GP?

I found sex very painfull for a good year+ put it down to scar tissue, but I happened to be volunteering for a hip related issue at a post-grad osteopathic exam and the examiner picked up on a pelvis issue and that made a huge difference.

Jacksmania Mon 17-Dec-12 03:35:18

Craving, well done you for getting a second opinion. I'm sorry you're having such an utterly shit time of it at the moment. sad

Sim - yyy to needing a new GP!!

I have had a rather draining few weeks. DH has been away (just back today, thank goodness) and tomorrow my lovely parents are coming for 10 days over Christmas. I'm very much looking forward to seeing them, but I hope my stepdad will bring his "willing to be pleased" self rather than his querulous and slightly difficult self. In his defence, he had a stroke in March and things are difficult for him... and I do love him to bits, but get rather fed up with his decades-long habit of really enjoying being spoilt and pandered to by my wonderful mum who, I think, deserves better than that and whom I blame for not giving him a swift kick up the bum by everyone.

I had a scare last Monday. Phone call from the GP saying "we want to see you tomorrow about the mammogram you had on Friday". You can imagine how I felt. DH away... it was not pretty. I posted a thread about it and had lots of people holding my hand (if any of you were on that thread, thank you thanks), and in the end it appears it's most likely a cyst. Having an ultrasound on Thursday to confirm.
When they say "your life passes in front of your eyes", it's really true. I was so utterly frightened. DS will be 5 in February. I have to be healthy for him!!

Anyway, I'll update on that when I get the U/S results, but meanwhile, for some good news, I got my consultation with the urogynaecology surgeon I've been referred to, and it's Jan 9, 2013! I never expected to be seen so soon. I'm having the polyp removed the day after, on the 10th. Bit of a heavy medical week, that week...

(((((*HUGS*))))) and wine and brew to all who need them.

cravingcake Tue 18-Dec-12 17:04:14

Thanks Jacks, wine has definitely helped. I'm starting to get my smile christmas spirit back.

I know exactly how you feel regarding a suspected cyst. I've had this a few times now, each time I just kept telling myself it would be fine, it'll be nothing serious, you're doing the right thing being checked etc etc but I know how it just sits at the back of your mind until you have got the all clear. So hugs and hand holding for you. Completely understand, and do let us know (you should get results on the same day).

Sim, definitely try a new GP if you can.

Twobuttonsaway Fri 28-Dec-12 19:10:02

Hi, hoping you can provide some advice! Ds2 was born 11 weeks ago - VBAC with forex eps and episiotomy. All seems to have healed from a wound perspective, but I have 2 issues...

1) leaking what I assume is urine leaving slight brownish stain. Had 2 lots of antibiotics post birth. Loss isn't stress related (no issues with holding it, sneezing etc). Feels like bubbling as it escapes and doesn't feel as if pelvic floor exercises will help. Any ideas?

2) first time we had sex last weeks (10 weeks pp) was excruciating and despite DH being gentle causes bleeding and pain for about 12 hrs after. Is this normal, have I been stitched up wrongly?

Obviously am planning to go back to Drs, but appt won't be till mid jan, so when I spotted this thread I thought I would ask your advice.

Thanks in advance smile

Jacksmania Sat 29-Dec-12 16:22:08

Hi twobuttons, congratulations on your DS! It sounds like his birth was pretty tough though.
I'm wondering if the leaking is vaginal discharge rather than urine. I find that vaginal/cervical mucus sometimes feels "bubbly" even when there's no infection. I could be wrong and I've never really had ursine leakage but I don't think a ursine stain would be brownish? Happy to be corrected though if someone knows better.

As for sex - at 10 weeks PP I'd have run screaming from a penis blush. Well done you for trying! I expect you haven't completely healed internally, or, if you have, then the scar tissue, which is still pretty fragile at 11 weeks PP, might have stretched and bled.
Sorry, I don't feel I'm being very useful - middle of Jan does seem a long way away, could you maybe ask to be put on the cancellation list?

Jacksmania Sat 29-Dec-12 16:23:26

FFS. Ursine should obviously be urine. I certainly hope you don't have bears leaking from anywhere!!
(New phone, it hates me.)

Twobuttonsaway Sat 29-Dec-12 17:34:15

Thanks Jacks, am going to queue for cancellation once the festivities are over. Happy new year! smile

Jacksmania Mon 31-Dec-12 06:20:04

And to you!
Happy New Year to all the Raggedies!

cravingcake Thu 03-Jan-13 19:33:37

Happy New Year fellow Raggedies! Hope you all had a good festive time and are doing ok.

Jacks, hope you are doing alright with your appointments & procedures coming up.

Thing1, how are you recovering? Im due to see 2nd consultant at end of the month and depending on what she says will mean what sort of surgery i have.

Twobuttons, how are getting on?

EauRouge Fri 04-Jan-13 13:06:35

Greetings, raggedies. I'm new to this (well, not to having a ruined fanjo but new to doing something about it).

Have 2 DDs, straightforward deliveries both times but 2nd degree tear both times. With DD1 they didn't do a very good job and after DD2 it got slightly worse. The main problem is a big skin tag that sometimes gets caught or is uncomfortable during sex or even when I'm using a tampon.

I've seen a consultant who was really nice and positive but after reading that surgery can sometimes make things worse I'm really nervous- what if I end up with another skin tag? The whole point of getting this done is to get rid of it! Part of me thinks I should just put up with it and not bother with surgery but it does really affect our sex life, partly because it's uncomfortable sometimes and partly because I'm self conscious of having a massive mutant skin tag thing poking out.

Also I'm nervous about the recovery- the surgery should be fairly minor but will I be able to walk around etc straight away? How soon do you think I'll be able to go running again?

Looking forward to sharing TMI with you that my friends don't want to hear about grin

snoozed Fri 04-Jan-13 13:23:28

Hello all, can I join?

Just found out that I'll probably need surgery to repair / 'refashion' (doc's words)a second degree tear which has not healed well, plus potentially a neuroma has developed. Waiting for referral to consultant.

This is almost 11mo post birth, having been fobbed off at 7months by a registrar who told me I needed psychosexual counselling!

As Eau says, what is recovery like from these ops? This worries me. However there is no option really as sex is not possible as too painful

cravingcake Fri 04-Jan-13 14:05:47

Hi Eau & Snoozed.

If you read back a page or two Thing1 has described her experience of the procedure, and her recovery so far. It seems there's a few of us going through this.

I know exactly what you mean EauRouge, my friends in RL don't want to hear about this, I just tell them that I'm getting the bits fixed that my DS damaged on his way into the world (most of them know I had a 4th degree tear, I can tell which of my friends have googled this and which ones haven't) grin.

snoozed Fri 04-Jan-13 14:18:39

Thanks cravingcake - just had a read, very helpful. Hope your recovery is going well thing1.

Tr0ubled Sat 05-Jan-13 09:40:42

Good morning everyone. I hope you don't mind but I'm popping over from 'any old prolapse' as I'm hoping one of you may be able to help.

I had a very fast labour with my firstborn, a DS, a grade 2/3 tear and an episiotomy that was stitched by a student. It had to be redone 6 weeks later as he'd stitched me incorrectly and in redoing it they had to remove part of my labia sad. Anyway 10 days later I got a horrific infection and it all broke down.

My DD was a wonderful birth, I tore though but requested no stitches. I healed with a skin tag which was removed under local anaesthetic (with my DD next to me in her pram!) EauRouge this op took about 10 minutes and the stitches dissolved within 2 weeks, I only needed 1 day resting at home and pain relief for about 48hrs.

My ruined perenium has led to a large rectocele (lots of lovely tests to diagnose this over the last 18 months). Finally I was booked in for surgery just before Christmas, went in at 7am but was sent home by 9am - do not take arnica before surgery as apparently it can cause extreme blood loss due to its blood thinning properties. Anyway I was actually relieved to be sent home as when the surgeon examined me she discovered I now have a cystocele and my surgery would include an anterior repair plus the possibility of a sacrospinous fixation or sacrohysteropexy (stitching the cervix up to ligaments in the pelvis).

So I'm still on my rollercoaster and don't yet have a new date for surgery and this has prompted me to look at going privately but where to start? I'm in London and wondered if any of you have a Urogynacologist that you'd recommend?
(Sorry for the very long post)

EauRouge Sat 05-Jan-13 09:59:32

Thanks, Tr0ubled, that's very reassuring smile I hope you manage to find a good urogynaecologist.

Thundercarriage Mon 07-Jan-13 00:46:44

Hello, was wondering if I could ask for some advice.

I noticed while I was pg with DC2 that things looked a bit different down below - basically looked as though something was bulging a bit at the back/bottom of my vjj and I was a bit worried about some sort of prolapse. Asked advice on MN and heard from a few mums who said they'd had this during pregnancy with weight of baby pushing down on things and it went back afterwards, so ignored put it to the back of my mind for a bit.

DC2 is now over a year blush and things still look much the same. I know I should probably go to the GP to get it checked out but I'm just slightly worried that this is completely normal and I will look like an idiot for asking and showing them my bits blush Is this normal/common after two kids or is it something I should get looked at?

I'm also wondering whether my pelvic floor is in spasm sometimes - often feels a bit odd. I'm also sometimes having trouble emptying my bladder, no pain though.

Anyway, think that's enough oversharing for now, bed time for me smile G'night.

EauRouge Mon 07-Jan-13 08:04:12

I would get it checked out. I also have a bit of bulging but GP said it was not a prolapse and that I just need to keep up with my pelvic floor exercises more. If you're having trouble doing them then you might be able to get a referral to a physio.

Don't just put up with it! I think a lot of us do because everyone always says things are different after you've had a baby, but that doesn't mean that you should have to put up with something if it can be fixed.

Jacksmania Sun 13-Jan-13 19:09:45

Hi all, wanted to post an update.
I will read back and see if I can answer any questions but right at the moment I can't see past my own troubles blushsad so need to vent a bit.

Saw urogynae specialist on Weds. It turns out that I will need an abdominal hysterectomy with bladder lift and enterocoele repair for my prolapse. I should probably pop over to the "Any old prolapse" thread but right now can't bear to, don't know why. Am really struggling emotionally. I can't believe that 5 years after DS's shitstorm birth it's come down to needing a hysterectomy. It can't be done effectively any other way, I asked - the failure rate for sacrohysteropexy for my type of prolapse is quite high, especially since my work is very physical and I am very active.

Does it sound stupid when I say I'm grieving for my poor uterus? It's done nothing wrong. All it did was grow the most wonderful baby ever and try to get him out, and we both got completely fucked over by my twat of a midwife and the OB who thought it was ok to let me push for 4+ hours and then use forceps to get DS out. I'm so angry. Just so angry.

Kveta Sun 13-Jan-13 21:35:36

not sure I totally belong here, but need advice, and you guys all seem sadly knowledgeable about ragged bits sad

7 months since DD arrived via kiellands forceps, and 3ys 3months since DS arrived via regular forceps and my bits are not happy ones.

I only had 2nd degree tears and 'significant' episiotomies, but despite it all healing, sex is still very sore, and I always tear a bit and bleed after it sad Obviously not very often as we have 2 young children, but I am sick of it. Have always been sore (first boyfriend I had raped me, and I tore, and it was always sore after that) but now it is worse. Plus my pelvic floor seems to have given up, so I blush pee during sex, and when running after the 3yo etc

I know I need to go to GP, but I HATE having anyone look at my bits, smears render me unable to sleep for weeks. gah.

sorry it's such a minor thing to complain about, but I am not a forceps fan now!

Jacksmania Sun 13-Jan-13 22:27:01

I, too, think forceps should be banned sad

I think you do need to go back to the GP, as much as you hate it. Ask the GP to check for a condition called vestibulitis. It often happens after trauma of any kind to the vulva. Can be helped hugely by application of oestrogen cream, or steroid cream.

I'm so sorry all this has happened to you. May I ask if you've had any counselling for the rape, and the forceps deliveries?

Jacksmania Sun 13-Jan-13 22:39:03

Ok, have read back a bit now.

Thundercarriage - bulging of bits of any kind, IMO, should be investigated. I know how hard it is to go to the GP and show off your undercarriage, but they'll have seen hundreds of others, and it's only a body to them. I'm not trying to dismiss your sense of blush, please don't think that, only to reassure you that what's <cringe> to us is <ho hum> to them.
Regarding your pelvic floor feeling a bit funny and peeing during sex (poor you!!!!!!) I think you should be sent to a pelvic floor physio and be evaluated for a cystocole - basically the bladder has fallen down and is pressing into the anterior wall of the vagina. It can make it feel like you can't empty your bladder completely.

For whoever asked about the surgery to re-fashion the perineum, I had that done. Mine was a bit more extensive than that (also included intravaginal repair. I spent one night in hospital, and wasn't terribly active the week after, had to do Epsom salt baths every day, but was walking around within 5 days (which might have been a bit much actually) and back to work in 2 1/2 weeks. My work is pretty physical so I wish I'd had longer, but as I said, it was a bit more than just a perineal repair.

EauRouge Mon 14-Jan-13 08:03:19

Hi Kveta <waves>, sorry about all your troubles- it doesn't sound minor at all! I'm seeing a brilliant counsellor who specialises in psychosexual disorders, she's been brilliant about trying to get my head straight. I've never been raped but had shitty midwives so also have issues about medical people messing with my bits. The counsellor is NHS so might be worth asking if there's a specialist like that near you.

I took a tranquilliser when I went to see the consultant about my surgery. Could you ask your GP for something to help you relax, do you think that would help?

Jacks Thanks for posting about your perineal repair experience. I thought that's what I was having but the last letter the hospital sent me said something different confused I'm going in for pre-op tests this week so I think I'll have to ask exactly what is going on. Am hoping it's going to be a quick recovery, whatever it is!

cravingcake Mon 14-Jan-13 10:14:45

Hi Jacks, just wanted to say you do not sound stupid for grieving for your uterus. Hysterectomy is a very final thing and I know I would feel exactly the same, someone is taking away that part of you (and the chance to have any more children yourself) so I would say its a very normal reaction. I hope you are coping ok. Big hugs and chocolate are needed for you.

Kveta your troubles are not minor. If it affects your day to day life then you really do need to see your GP. Also, it may be worth trying hypnosis therapy first, as this can help teach you relaxation techniques to help you cope (I have had this and can tell you more if you are interested). I too hate the examinations (think we all do).

WhodveThought Mon 14-Jan-13 19:40:37

Jacks- I am so sorry. That's horrible. How dare someone do so much damage to you that you end up with this as a solution. I wish I could do something for you. I send you hugs though and I am angry on your behalf.

WhodveThought Mon 14-Jan-13 19:43:00

My bladder is now falling apart on me. I had an accident (at home thank god) yesterday. My daughter (2 yo) saw it all and told me 'it's ok, just a accident. Clean it up'. And I felt like sobbing.

Jacksmania Mon 14-Jan-13 20:21:22

Oh goodness sad
I'd have cried, too.
Thanks for the kind words, and wind and chocolate smile
I'm still feeling fairly crappy about it all.

Whodvethought, are you going to get your bladder checked out?

Kveta Mon 14-Jan-13 21:29:33

thanks so much Jacksmania, that does sound like it could be my problem. need to gird my loins so to speak and make an appointment.

sorry to hear about your problems, it sounds utterly miserable sad hope you are well looked after whilst you recover from your op.

<waves> back at Eau yes I had counselling a few years ago, and am starting CBT at some point for mild PND.

I do sometimes wonder if I'm making a big fuss over nothing, then HCPs take me seriously, so I guess I need to tell them about my knackered bits too!

Jacksmania Mon 14-Jan-13 21:55:07

I do sometimes wonder if I'm making a big fuss over nothing, then HCPs take me seriously, so I guess I need to tell them about my knackered bits too!

^ grin

That made me grin

WhodveThought Mon 14-Jan-13 22:44:20

Jacks- I don't know. I can't be bothered tbh. I am just so tired of it all and the thought of more poking and prodding and specialists is just exhausting. I know that is self-defeating but I have had so little progress with all these tests and appointments. Every time I see someone they find something new to examine or test me for and it's unfailingly dehumanising and humiliating.

Sorry, am having a bad day here! Excuse the doom and gloom.

Jacksmania Tue 15-Jan-13 02:46:22

<joins Whodvethought in Having A Bad Day>

Would wine help?

WhodveThought Tue 15-Jan-13 03:35:09

wine always helps! Cheers smile

Sossiges Fri 18-Jan-13 22:13:15

Hi, have just given birth and yesterday I noticed a long lump of skin (?) hanging down from my vag, was about 5cm long last night and must have gone back in overnight as was about 2cm this morning, however now back to 5cm. Looks like an empty sausage skin. Does anyone know what this could be? Rang the midwives' office but they haven't got back to me yet. sad Sorry, I know this isn't very exciting compared to all your war stories but if anyone has any idea???

cravingcake Sat 19-Jan-13 06:48:22

Hi Sossiges. I would recommend you call your normal gp and get them to look at it. Did you tear? If so it could be a skin tag where they stitched. However if you have only recently given birth you may need to wait a couple of months for things to settle down (swelling/bruising etc) before it can be removed or fixed.

Congratulations on your new baby smile

Sossiges Sat 19-Jan-13 15:44:37

Hi and thanks for the answer. No, no tear, just the weird dangly bit!
Only gave birth on Tuesday, so yes, I would agree things need to settle down again. Will go to gp on Monday, see if he has any ideas.

Jacksmania Mon 21-Jan-13 06:48:59

confused I have I idea what that could be.
Do come back and let us know, will you?

Congratulations on your little one!!!

Jacksmania Mon 21-Jan-13 06:49:39

This phone hates me.

I have no idea... is what I meant.

Monix32 Mon 21-Jan-13 22:13:04

Hi Everyone, let me introduce myself, I'm from Spain, so my english is not very good, but i can not find any kind of information or forums in my own language so at the end i starrt looking pages on the net in english...and I found this threat.
I had my boy last November, really bad labor, lots of hours, forceps and third degree tear plus episotomy...noone explained me anything about it, they just told me to take laxantes and gave me an app 6 weeks before to pelvic floor unit, I was wonder what for?? Until I discovered by myself with a couple of fecal incomtinence accidents!!!
Now, after the app I started to do kegel exercise with a phisio and I can feel just a bit improve there, but very little.
My situation is like all of you can imagine very sad, I'm very depress, very sad, dont go out of my home bc im afraid of these accidents to happen again and Im positive that I cant hold loose stools (sorry I know TMI). By the end of the month Im doing anal eco and manometry in order to see the real damage....
I would like to keep in touch with you ladies, as I feel really alone with my problem, In my country things are worst than in yours, lack of information, etc...
Thanks for listen to me and sorry for my english, I understand pretty well but writting is not easy grin.

Jacksmania Tue 22-Jan-13 02:04:31

Hi Monix, your English writing is brilliant smile
Congratulations on your baby boy. I'm sorry it was such a horrible experience sad
As I'm sure you've read, lots of us have gone through similar, so we're here to keep you company. This thread doesn't always get a lot of answers quickly, but keep checking back, someone will be along!

I had the same as you, fecal incontinence after my son's birth. Forceps, third, possibly fourth degree tear. I refused to leave the house when I had loose stools! Or I'd wear one of Jack's nappies in my pants blush. I know exactly how you feel. In my case, it lasted a few months before I really felt like I had some control back. It's horrible. I really feel for you.

Welcome to the thread - we're sorry you had to come looking for us, but we're glad you found us smile

Monix32 Tue 22-Jan-13 21:42:41

Thanks Jacksmania for the welcome! I read your stories on the old threats, really helps a lot, I hope everything would get better with time!at least my mind would get better!

Jacksmania Tue 22-Jan-13 22:04:08

It will. It's so hard right now, because it's still all new, and it's hard to see progress when you're in the middle of things - but it will get better.

Sossiges Wed 23-Jan-13 17:48:04

I'm back, I didn't go to the dr on Monday as planned but saw the mw today and in the meantime the sausage skin has gone back inside to (hopefully) its rightful place. I googled it but couldn't find anything on the internet about sausage skins and the mw had no idea what it could have been either so I'm none the wiser but relieved. I feel like a right fraud now.
I hope your operation goes OK Jacks xxx

Jacksmania Wed 23-Jan-13 17:59:25

grin that made me grin. You're not a fraud!!! Horrible thought, but could you take a picture if it appears again? Yeah right, who's going to aim a camera at their fanny.

I'm having a hard time with the uncertainty of the timing of the op. Any time in the next 12 months, we'll ring you a month in advance. Cheers hmm.

EauRouge Wed 23-Jan-13 18:37:15

Sossiges Yeah yeah, I bet you made the whole thing up just so you could post on the raggedies thread grin I'd keep an eye on it just in case. At both of my 6 week checks I was offered a check up on my stitches, it's well worth taking up the offer or asking someone to have a peek.

Jacks, that is shit, how come they won't let you know? It must be awful not knowing when it's going to be. I hope it won't be too long a wait for you.

I had my blood test and MRSA test last week and I've heard nothing so I assume everything is fine and going ahead for my op next Tuesday. I mis-read the letter they'd sent me and I won't be in for 4-6 hours in the clinic, I'll be in hospital for 4-6 hours total! shock I'm a bit worried now that they're going to rush it grin

cravingcake Wed 23-Jan-13 18:40:45

Sossiges, that has made me smile too grin. And you definitely not a fraud, glad it seems to now be ok.

Jacks I've seen your other thread about your op but not read it but do hope you are feeling a bit better than last week.

I've got my gynae appointment next Wednesday so am half looking forward to it to find out what they say and I can get things booked in and planned and half not, for the obvious get-ya-bits-out-so-we-can-have-a-good-look way.

Jacksmania Wed 23-Jan-13 19:04:30

EauRouge, that's just how the Canadian medical system works. This would be considered elective - I guess until my uterus actually hits my knees - so you get put on the surgical wait list, and the surgeon works his way through the cases, until it's your turn.

It's better than the US, anyway...

cravingcake Wed 23-Jan-13 19:34:05

EauRouge do you know what the procedure is that you will be having? I was booked for a 'refashion' and was told I would be a day patient, so in and out within about 6 hours. I was told that it would be agony for about 3 days, then about a week later much better and by 3 weeks after surgery able to have sex again shock and get pregnant shock (am planning on another baby so wanted to know recovery times for my body to be able to support a pregnancy, and the added weight that comes with it).

Just for info, I'm seeing another gynae at different hospital as my GP was not impressed with the surgery I'd been offered, so my op is on hold until I've seen them next week.

Sossiges Thu 24-Jan-13 01:00:28

Excuse moi, EauRouge if I were making it up I think I'd go for something a bit more dramatic than "a sausage skin hanging out of my fanny" wink
Will quiz the doc at the 6 week check though and see if he has any idea what it could have been. Poor man.
Darn it, you're right, I should have taken photos.

Jacksmania Thu 24-Jan-13 05:22:07

I do wonder what it is - you'll let us know??

EauRouge Thu 24-Jan-13 09:02:36

cravingcake, I think I'm having a re-fashion, although the last letter they sent just said something about skin tag removal. Either way it is very minor, I only had a 2nd degree tear. Sex after 3 weeks? shock I'd better get some contraception sorted soon afterwards then. Definitely do NOT want to have to go through pregnancy and childbirth again after I get my shiny new fanjo grin

Jacks ah, you're a Canuck! Which bit are you in? Hope you hear from the hospital soon. Find some other people on the list and talk them out of it so you're first in line wink

Sossiges How long until your 6 week check? Could you phone a MW and just chat over the phone about what it could have been? Maybe a big stringy bit of lochia?

Sossiges Thu 24-Jan-13 15:20:42

About another 5 weeks until 6 week check! I've asked two mw's and neither of them had any idea what it could have been. Wasn't lochia - was definitely attached and hasn't come out (I would have seen it). Plus it came out and went in a few times before disappearing back up. Some kind of alien life-form perhaps? confused

Jacksmania Thu 24-Jan-13 15:42:27

If it's an alien life form, we definitely need pictures! grin

ER, I'm on the West Coast, right near Vancouver.
<snicker> @ talking other women on the list out of their ops!

cravingcake Thu 24-Jan-13 18:57:59

If Sossiges does have an alien life form I will second the definitely need pictures grin If for nothing else but to make us smile.

EauRouge, you could be having skin tag removal. I need that (been really painful today), and some scar tissue to be removed. Plus whatever else the gynae I see next week says. Also, I don't really want another pregnancy just 3 weeks after I get a shiny new fanjo either, it would be nice to err, try it out and enjoy it for a while first grin

Jacksmania Thu 24-Jan-13 19:47:09

I've been told "nothing in the vagina" for 6 weeks after my op shock

And I've been told that women are often extra, erm, well, horny... after a hysterectomy shock

Now how do I fit those two facts together????

Jacksmania Thu 24-Jan-13 19:47:43

PMSL @ "shiny new fanjo" grin

EauRouge Thu 24-Jan-13 20:56:21

Our pub quiz team last week was called 'shiny new tuppence' (we won). I also texted one of our regular members who was absent with an invitation to 'come and have a drink and toast my new vagina'. Strangely it was declined hmm

I like to keep a sense of humour about these things grin

Jacksmania Thu 24-Jan-13 22:47:12

Well, you have to.
I saw my GP this morning for something unrelated but annoying a sebaceous cyst on my back, I may actually have to sound the klaxon for the very first time and she was very sympathetic about the hysterectomy (she's lovely, always has time to listen) and in the end we ended up giggling about something likely stupid I said, and I thought, hey, I'm better than I wa slast week, as least this week I can almost laugh about it.

I wonder what your team member thought s/he was being invited to do grinshock

EauRouge Mon 28-Jan-13 10:15:26

This time tomorrow I'll have my shiny new fanjo <shakes uncontrollably>. I'm going over to a friend's house after lunch to keep my mind off things, this morning I've got to clean out the zoo because I'll be on the sofa for a week I should think.

Good luck getting your back sorted Jacks, that must be really uncomfortable and annoying.

cravingcake Mon 28-Jan-13 21:55:51

Good luck EauRouge i hope it all goes well.

EauRouge Tue 29-Jan-13 14:09:32

Have survived! Was only in theatre for about 30 minsshock on sofa now, bit stingy but doing fine on paracetamol.

cravingcake Tue 29-Jan-13 16:56:18

Great news Eau, keep us updated on how things go, i'm off to see gynae consultant tomorrow morning for second opinion. I know last week i was quite looking forward to it (in a find out answers sort of way) but now i'm nervous. My DS has given me a delightful cold which has knocked me more than normal and have lost my voice, even had to get the grandparents over to babysit so i could rest for a couple of hrs today. So i'm now hoping for a quiet night and a bit of distraction on the tv.

Jacksmania Tue 29-Jan-13 17:25:14

Good luck craving. I hope you get all the answers you need <offers hand to hold and box of Kleenex for rotten cold>

EauRouge, I hope you're resting and doing nothing? <stern look>
Keep up the pain meds. After my scar revision, I thought "oh, this is nothing" and let it go for a few hours too many one day... oh dear... it was Not Good.

I am having a miserable menstrual period. Just miserable. Cramps, aching, flooding, bloating... and I'm absolutely delighted by the thought that I won't be having too many more of these. If I have to wait the full year, it'll be around 11 more. If sooner, then fewer.
Right now, that's a nice thought smile

shine85 Sat 02-Feb-13 10:18:40

Hello...I'm new here for some advice really. I had my baby in October. Failed ventouse, forceps delivery. I had stitches for the episiotomy. Five days later they were found to be infected so I was put on antibiotics. About a week later the doctor said the stitches had come open and I was left with an open wound. I gave taken ten courses of antibiotics in total and I think I now have reacted to that...ruby yellow discharge for the last eight weeks. I was eventually referred to a gynae who has given me a date for cutting and re stitching along the perineum. I'm looking forward to it because it could mean and end in sight to all this horrible time I've seen. But I'm also nervous and don't know what to expect. Has anyone here been through this or similar? I would really appreciate some advice. Thank you.

Jacksmania Sat 02-Feb-13 16:55:50

Hi shine85, and welcome - although we're sorry you've had to find us. Ouch, I'm just cringing and squeezing my legs together for you! sad
I think several posters on this thread have had their perineum refashioned, someone just last week (EauRouge, I think?) so read back a bit - and if they haven't updated, we'll PM them! smile
I've had what they call a scar revision here (I'm in Canada), and it wasn't too bad. It was done under GA, but I went home the same day. Was pretty sore for a few days (ouch ouch ouch!) - so do take your pain meds!! - but I was up and walking around (slowly) in about three days, and back to work in two weeks.
Congratulations on your baby, but I really feel for you. You must be so uncomfortable. sad

nearlymumofone Thu 07-Feb-13 22:11:44

Hello All.

Firstly- sorry that this is very insignificant in the grand scheme of things, when I read the traumas everyone else on here has gone through- but I thought you may be able to shed some light/advise.

I have 2dcs. Dc1 was born over 2 years ago- vaginal delivery with an episiotomy and stitches. I thought everything went pretty well. Until I was pg with dc2- and about 4 months into the pregnancy had mild anal incontinence issues. I informed midwife and consultant advised on a c-section as the incontinence may have been due to a 'missed tear' the first time round. Since having dc2 I have had various tests, and am waiting for results of the last lot. But one thing has been concerning me- during dc1's birth the midwife had her fingers up my bum for what felt like most of the 'pushing' stage (which went on for at least a couple of hours). When I was pushing she said push into her fingers- which she'd put up my bum. Obviously I was a novice to childbirth and out of my head with pain and thought nothing of it at the time. It is only with these now issues I have that I wonder if that in itself could have caused the trauma that has lead to problems rather than a missed tear. And is it normal at all for the midwife to do this??? On reflection it doesn't seem right AT ALL.

Anyway- bit of a weird one- but just wondered if anyone had any clue.....?


EauRouge Fri 08-Feb-13 08:15:49

Hello shine, I had my op just over a week ago now and I'm already almost back to normal. It still gets a bit sore if I move the wrong way but mostly it's fine. It's got to that healing stage where it's really bloody itchy hmm so I think my stitches will probably come out soon. The op was really much easier than I thought it was going to be and about a billion times easier and less painful than recovering from childbirth.

nearly, I have never, ever heard of a MW sticking their fingers up women's bottoms. It sounds very odd to me. Have you seen your birth notes? I would ask a MW next time you see one. I hope you get some good news when you get your results.

Jacksmania Sat 09-Feb-13 18:22:39

EauRouge!!! <snogs>
I'm so glad it went well for you. I found the same as you, the op was much easier than recovering from JB's birth. Ugh @ itchy stitches - it's so hard not to scratch but FFS don't!!! shockgrin

Nearly - my midwife put her hand in my vagina all the way up to her armpit it felt like to help me focus my pushing. I couldn't feel much due to epidural.
I haven't heard of a MW putting her finger in your bum to help focus pushing but at this point nothing I've heard about childbirth shocks me anymore so, while I might not know exactly why she'd do that, it doesn't seem utterly improbable, IYSWIM.
FWIW, I don't think that having her fingers in there could have done the damage you've spoken of. I mean, people have bumsex all the time (well, I don't know about all the time but you know what I mean) and it doesn't seem to cause incontinence? I mean, a penis is bigger than a finger or two. Disclaimer: I might be talking shite - I really have no idea.

I think your consultant is more likely to be correct, that it was a missed tear. Sometimes - this happened to me - a tear can extend backwards internally and not actually be seen from the outside. And once you add internal pressure from a subsequent pregnancy, I can see where that might stress your sphincter muscle.

I hope your tests come back with some sort of a conclusion. Please update us! This thread tends to move slowly - we don't seem to be a chatty lot sometimes at others, we have parties with carrots and wine but someone checks in sooner or later.

smellysocksandchickenpox Sat 09-Feb-13 19:14:17

hello! thanks for pointing me in the direction of this thread jacksmania!

I'm 3wks PP, only a cut equivalent 2nd degree tear, stitches looked good initially, then started to go a bit tits up! gaping and hard and lumpy, stiches have been cut to let it heal more naturally, which at first seemed to work well, but then a sort of cavity/tunnel thing appeared.

feel a bit tearful about the reaction from MWs, one was good, one didn't want to even look, and the other didn't understand that I wasn't worried about pain NOW! I can cope with that, what was worrying me was how it was going to heal long term - she didn't seem to think that worrying about never being able to have sex again was a sensible thing for a 7 day PP woman to be thinking/talking about! All of them just wanted to discharge me back to my gp, so I was discharged at just over 2 weeks. Been to the doc who cut the top stitch (but didn't realise it was a running stich and tried to pull the stich out - OUCH!!!!)

Doc wanted me to take antibiotics as a preventative thing but I refused as am breast feeding (and taking antibiotics while BFing my first child gave the baby horrible thrush) so she said I have to keep a close eye on it to look out for infection, but some days I can't bear to look! one day it seems to be healing, the next it's opening up again and I'm in tears again

I know i've gotten off lightly, its more the brush off from the MWs that has upset me, that plus the fact that I feel like all of this is because I made the wrong decision - I let them break my waters and that led to the baby getting distressed and vontouse and the cut - I should have asked to wait and see how things progressed, waters don't HAVE to break! some babies are born in their bag of waters - the birth was lovely till then I was coping with just hypnobirthing and DS's HR was fab etc

Jacksmania Sat 09-Feb-13 20:07:26

That's so shit sad

One thing that really stood out in your post was this: "plus the fact that I feel like all of this is because I made the wrong decision" - NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

This is NOT your fault!!!

I'm sorry, I get very upset and passionate about things like this because of what happened with my DS's birth - but seriously - no one should have to be their own midwife or doctor when they're in labour!! I do think that we have, in ideal circumstances, some control over what happens in labour, but when things go a bit fruit-shaped, you are the astronaut being flown by the space ship, and making rational decisions is very very very difficult, if not impossible.

I am happy to be corrected on this, and will be the first to admit my experience has influenced my opinion, but I also know I'm not the only who feels that way.

Do NOT blame yourself.

It was your MW's job to make good decisions for you. And no-one has a crystal ball, and not all decisions end up being good ones, even with the best of intentions.

<and breathe> blush

As for your poor bits, they do look horrible when mangled, don't they? I'd almost say go by how it feels to sit and move around, rather than look or feel with your hand. It all just feels so wrong for a while.

I'd talk to the GP again when you see him or her. And really stress, if you can bring yourself to, how upset you were by how the midwives handled your aftercare.

IF, in the long run, you end up needing or wanting a scar revision (which is what they call it here, I'm in Canada) or refashioning, if you read EauRouge's post above, and a few more, you'll see it's not that bad. Which doesn't in any way mitigate what's happened to you.

Come vent any time.

Hello, I've lurked a bit but wondering if anyone had suggestions?

My first baby was born with a third degree tear, I had fenton procedure six months later but seven years on still not continent of wind and sometimes stool.

It's rubbish.

I am pregnant again and in what I suspect to be totally unrelated wayhgave found I'm getting really bad cramps and diarrhoea with bread/pasta. I'm trying to cut out but seems unpredictable. My question is , are there any medicines it's ok to take to stop this happening, as I would be utterly mortified.

Thank you.

Jacksmania Sat 09-Feb-13 20:18:27

Hello Silent, I'm sorry but have no immediate idea - will have a think. Will be back, we have DS's birthday party this afternoon.

Thank you jack mania, I do appreciate that.

smellysocksandchickenpox Sat 09-Feb-13 20:34:47

I've no idea silentmammouth but hopefully someone will be along soon who does

I'll have a read back jacksmania, at first I was really panicing that I would miss the window for repairs, it took 3 midwife appointments before one explained that if repairs were to be done, they'd be done later once it had healed of sorts, which was a relief because I was really worried that letting it heal "wrong" would be a disaster long term, I just wish the first midwive I'd talked to about it had explained this!

They were also not reassuring about the fact that I was still loosing pieces of membrane when they discharged me, which again wouldn't be happening if I'd said no to the artificial breaking of waters and left him to be born in the bag (which is also apparently very good luck in some cultures!) But you're right, I couldn't be my own midwife - I hadn't really thought about it like that, we have it drummed into us at antenatal class etc to be empowered and to question decisions but in labour I think that sometimes really you just want to let go a bit and go with it and let someone else do the thinking!

There was no emergency that required the waters to be broken, it was just to speed things up. If we'd have left it it is quite likely that his heart rate would't have dipped, he'd have had no vontouse, he'd have had delayed cord claming (which we'd requested) and I wouldn't have needed to be cut. Typing all this while I have a healthy snoozing baby draped over my arm does make this all feel like a bit of a 1st world problem though! blush

smellysocksandchickenpox Sat 09-Feb-13 20:35:40

p.s. happy birthday jacksmania's DS grin

shine85 Mon 11-Feb-13 19:43:43

Hello again!

Let me begin by apologising. I am so sorry I didn't get to reply! How rude of me to come looking for help here and not replying soon after. Press accept my sincere apologies!

Anyway, I have read back as much as possible and it's always helpful to read other peoples experiences. I still have my scar and my surgery is due to take place this Friday, the 15th. I am simply terrified! Not so much of the surgery itself but mainly of the general anaesthetic. I'm not sure how I feel about being put to sleep and people taking knives on me. Plus, I very rarely vomit (I didn't even have a single episode of morning sickness!) and I hear GAs make you feel nauseous. I hate the feeling of throwing scares me! And I have so many questions that it's all boggled in my mind. I need some serious hand holding, ladies. please make me feel better sad

Jacksmania Mon 11-Feb-13 20:10:47

<offers hand to hold>

Nobody likes vomiting envy <-- sick face
But I've had four ops under GA and not once have I felt nauseous from the anaesthetic. For me it's the pain relief after that upsets my stomach so with my (please, god) last big op coming up, I'll need to speak with my surgeon to see what we can come up with. I'm allergic to codeine so any of the mid-range pain relief options are out for me. It's either ibuprofen & paracetamol, or narcotics envy.

Anyway, enough about me. And me telling you that GA isn't a big deal won't help you. It is scary - I feel like a veteran now but I still get a bit scared of being put under.

Don't worry about posting and not coming back for a few days. This isn't a super-fast moving thread. Sometimes it can take a bit of patience waiting for a reply, even smile

EauRouge Mon 11-Feb-13 20:14:32

I will hold your hand! I felt the exact same way a couple of weeks ago. Tomorrow it will be 2 weeks since my op.

The GA was the bit that scared me the most too, I'd never had one before. I was scared that I'd be sick or that I wouldn't wake up at all. I was even scared that the canula thing in my hand would really hurt blush But it was all so easy. The anaesthetist was really nice. When she started putting the stuff in my hand I felt a weird sensation in my chest a couple of seconds later and I said how odd it felt. And that was it! I don't even remember falling asleep.

I think they are very used to having nervous first-timers and I felt very well looked after.

I didn't feel sick at all when I came around, there was no headache and not much drowsiness. I would say I felt completely back to normal after about 30 mins (before that just a bit dopey). I stuck to the rules of not eating or drinking anything beforehand so that probably helped. I was given some local injections when I was still under GA to help with the pain but a couple of paracetomol did the job just fine after that wore off.

Everyone reassured me how easy the GA was before I went in and I didn't believe them- but they were so right grin

Hope that helps a bit. What other questions have you got?

smellysocksandchickenpox Mon 11-Feb-13 20:28:34

hi shine, I've had a GA for something else, it is scary before hand but it was actually a fairly pleasant sensation and works really quickly

Jacksmania Mon 11-Feb-13 23:03:12

The only thing I really intensely dislike about GA is that I find I "lose" the next few days. I mean that several weeks later I can barely remember the 48 hours following the op. Probably not a bad thing but it bugs me.

May I just say thanks thanks thanks to all of you on this thread. You're a great bunch. thanks

shine85 Tue 12-Feb-13 11:41:52

I feel lots better reading your views and thoughts, ladies. Thank you! I'm just being a weakling,I know. Eaurouge, thanks so much for your story, it really helped. And thanks to everyone else who has shared and helped too.
I did have other questions, but they were all silly questions like am I allowed lip balm because I have dry lips.
Jacksmania, when is your surgery? We'll all be there holding your hand. In fact, we'll all hold each others' hands smile
Will keep you all posted.

EauRouge Tue 12-Feb-13 11:47:14

I used a smear of vaseline on my lips before I left for the op, it had no ill effects on me although I don't know what the official recommendations are.

There aren't any silly questions if you've never done it before! Better to be prepared than waste time worrying over something that might be really simple to answer.

smellysocksandchickenpox Tue 12-Feb-13 12:26:06

do NOT put vaseline on your lips, it has parafin in it, if you get put on a high concentration of oxygen via face mask it is flamable and people have had burnt lips from it!

EauRouge Tue 12-Feb-13 12:28:14

There you go then, that's the official advice! I think mine had all gone by the time I had my op, it was a good couple of hours beforehand. Best be on the safe side though.

smellysocksandchickenpox Tue 12-Feb-13 12:32:44

(same would go for most oil based lip balms I think, a water based lotion would be okay)

EauRouge Tue 12-Feb-13 12:35:25

Bit worried that they never told me that before the op!

smellysocksandchickenpox Tue 12-Feb-13 12:43:56

well it is rare and hospitals used to stock vaseline for dry lips, I only know because there were burns at my local hospital so they're quite hot on it, the hospital I had my op in though didn't mention it

shine85 Tue 12-Feb-13 12:55:58

Wow that's pretty scary. Thanks for that!

Jacksmania Tue 12-Feb-13 15:15:42

Oh eek, I've never heard that about Vaseline!! shock

I don't know when my surgery will be. When I saw the consultant a month ago he said the surgical wait list was about a year, and that they would call me a month before. He did say if he could do it sooner, he would - but I don't know if that was just a platitude.

raggedyanny Tue 12-Feb-13 17:19:02

Hi All

I feel a bit of a fraud sneaking on here as my problems are no where near as bad as other- but I was wondering if you have any advice/reassurance?
DS is 9 months- long labour (induction) but a quick vontouse birth as his heart rate plummeted and then stitched up in a hurry as I was haemorrhaging (without pain relief- wince ) fairly long 2nd degree tear.

Anyway it still hurts- specifically excruciating when having sex (not much of that!) and then occasional twinges/aches. It feels really weird too- all um out of line and wonky on one side as if a bit of the inside was left on the outside.

Went to the doctors last week who were very dismissive and basically said that it's only been 9 months and that things would settle down- but it's starting to get me down, I dread having sex and it's putting a strain on our relationship (from me- DH very understanding).

No problems with continence especially- if I need to go I need to go if you know what I mean, but otherwise fine.

Apologies to all the ladies who have real problems, but it's not the sort of thing you can really ask people in real life!


EauRouge Tue 12-Feb-13 17:29:37

Pfft, your problem sounds pretty real to me!! Sounds even worse than what I went through. Mine wasn't sewn up straight so I ended up with a skin tag which got in the way during sex and using tampons (mooncup totally impossible), sounds like something similar happened to you- at least I got a local though, ouch shock

The skin tag was very easily removed, I wrote about my op a few posts back. They didn't bother doing much with my perineum in the end, just a tiny bit I think.

I would see a different GP if you can, I deliberately booked in with a female GP who I knew had children and she was very supportive.

cravingcake Tue 12-Feb-13 19:38:13

Hi Raggedyanny, you are definitely not a fraud. All of us are here because of childbirth injuries which are affecting our lives in some way, whether that's physical, mental, or both. Not being able to enjoy a sexual relationship due to a physical problem comes under that. Yes 9 months isn't long but is long enough to have given it time for your body to return to pretty much what its going to be. Definitely get another GP to have a look (preferably a woman as they seem to be more understanding but not essential) and ask to be referred to gynaecology. Your injuries sound similar to mine. Things just don't feel right, and my lovely GP agrees.

I was supposed to see a second gynae consultant 2 weeks ago but the clinic I was supposed to attend was cancelled and I wasn't told angry and the consultant now only works from a different hospital. I've been chasing them every other day for a new appointment but am still being told it hasn't been rebooked yet <even more angry moticon> Argh! I'm at the point where I'm thinking of cancelling everything and just getting pregnant again as I desperately want another baby without a massive age gap between baby no 2 and my first DS and I'll deal with any incontinence with tena lady and pain issues once I'm done having babies. Ok, rant over now.

Glad you have found us, but as Jacksmania often says to new people here, its a shame you needed to.

It isn't something people like to talk about in real life, which is what makes this so helpful. We understand exactly what its like. I too feel its putting a strain on my relationship with my DH as I don't find sex enjoyable (putting it mildly) anymore.

Another one here to hold anyone's hand who needs it.

Would I be ridiculous to go to gp and ask about anti diarrhoea drugs?

I just had a bad episode and can't face the idea if this happening at work sad

Jacksmania Tue 12-Feb-13 21:01:59

Of course it wouldn't be ridiculous - that's a really good idea and in fact I meant to come back and suggest it, I'm sorry I didn't.

Had a nasty bout with either norovirus or food poisoning Sat night after DS's party - didn't get out of bed at all Sunday, both ends at the same time, and believe me, I wasn't walking around with any confidence in my hinder end yesterday sad angry. Hideous.

Back at work today and feeling a bit shaky so probably shouldn't be here, but ho hum, what do you do.

brew <-- peppermint tea for me, what would anyone else like?

Yes please! Sorry about the norovirus, just what you dont want.

Jacksmania Tue 12-Feb-13 22:40:17

Pretty much - yuk envy <--sick face.

shine85 Wed 13-Feb-13 00:39:40

Just wanted to pop in to thank you girls for your support. I agree, it's an arse of a situation when you can't talk to anyone in real life. They seem to be bored hearing stories all the time

Jacksmania Wed 13-Feb-13 01:00:39

Yeah, either that or they look at you like shock and refuse to believe that things like this can actually happen. hmm

We're a nice, if slightly ragged bunch grin

EauRouge Wed 13-Feb-13 08:37:19

My friends at the pub have been delighted at me regaling them with stories of my fango. I've also talked to the guys in my band about it and they were piss-taking bastards very supportive.

I wish it weren't so taboo to talk about child-birth related injuries, I thought for ages that I would just have to live with the way it was. I only found out on mumsnet that it could be fixed.

smellysocksandchickenpox Wed 13-Feb-13 14:46:01

eugh noro is horrible! I find the post viral bit the worst - when the v&d has cleared up but you're wiped out from it for a bit - I found that eating extra healthy for a bit helped get things back to normal!

I worked up the courage to have a feel of the inside stiches last night in the bath (am scared of infection as refused preventative antibiotics because of BFing, so only feel when I'm sure I'm clean) - it wasn't good! But then for about an hour afterwards I was getting period like cramps which made me panic irrationally that feeling there had somehow got loads of water where it shoudln't be or something! It seems fine now.

I can't bear the thought of trying anything.. you know.. larger than a finger in there - so how do the gynae's look? presumably they need to use some sort of speculum - which I just can't even contemplate - I don't think I could let something like that near me.. probably ever again! catch 22 because if I don't it won't ever get fixed right? (if it comes to that)

episiotomies always sounded so small and neat to me - ha ha! I had no idea! <that was a bitter laugh>

cravingcake Wed 13-Feb-13 15:24:53

Jacks, hope you are starting to feel human again. Its horrible. More brew for you and rest as much as you can.

Smellysocks I hate to say it but yes a gynae will need to use a speculum. And they will have a good old poke about and ask you where it hurts bloody everywhere and where it doesn't. BUT they should use a numbing gel thing beforehand, to make it not as bad. I wont lie, its unpleasant and afterwards you will feel like someone has kicked you but a couple of paracetamol and a bottle glass of wine (I had my last appointment after 4pm so it was wine time when I got home). It was also good that I took my DH with me for the appointment as it was the first time he really understood just how uncomfortable and unpleasant things can be at times.

Also, the main thing to remember is TIME. You will hear this a lot but time is a good healer, every week and then month that passes things get slightly better/more bearable.

I had an overdue smear test done at the colposcopy unit 16 weeks after giving birth and I was in tears, more with the fear of the position I was in, which was almost identical as I was in when delivering (I had PTSD and PND kicking in around the same time). The ladies there were very very understanding and held my hand, made me a cuppa afterwards and made sure I was ok before going home. However, I coped and the actual physical discomfort was alright. You did hypnobirthing so you could use some of the same relaxation or breathing techniques. And just tell them beforehand your concerns or worries, they will not laugh at you or make you feel silly.

Bit of a long post. Struggling a bit these days so it helps to write stuff down and if it helps anyone in a similar position then great. And thanks for reading.

smellysocksandchickenpox Wed 13-Feb-13 16:37:10

<runs for the hills clutching crotch but is grateful for the info>

EauRouge Wed 13-Feb-13 16:51:59

I wasn't exactly pleased about having my bits prodded after the MWs spent much of my labour yanking my cervix around like one of those modelling balloons. If you're that nervous you could ask your GP to prescribe you something.

I was a bit naughty, I had some diazepam left over from the last flight I had so I took one of those. At my gynae consultant appointment I swear they must have asked me 10 times if I was on any medication. I think they could tell grin But it really helped to take the edge off, especially after the colposcopist I saw that was the polar opposite of the nice one that cravingcake had.

Well, I saw the Nicest GP In The World today, who prescribed me stuff that will hopefully prevent me traumatising myself and all I work with.

On downside she really pushed to discuss with my obstetrician. I know they're going to want me to book an elcs now.

shine85 Wed 13-Feb-13 21:47:53

Bah! Prunes
Sleep wear/slippers

I've caught a sore throat and am a little sniffy today. Apparently, it's dangerous for them to operate on someone who is unwell like this because it can lead to chest infection...? Sigh. hope I get my surgery because I really don't want to wait more.

And, while we're on the subject of speculums that reminds me I will be pricked and poked before the OP! Sorry tmi, but I've had runny yellow discharge for about ten weeks now. Argh!

shine85 Wed 13-Feb-13 21:50:11

LOL okay I somehow managed to post my shopping list here (I normally write in my phones text pad and copy and paste) and I don't know how to delete!

EauRouge Wed 13-Feb-13 22:40:06

Are they not meant to operate if you've got a cold? They didn't tell me that either. I had a stinker. Mind you, it might be better to delay, it's no bloody fun sneezing when someone's just rearranged your fanjo.

Jacksmania Thu 14-Feb-13 16:10:53

We're in norovirus hell here, just wanted to pop in briefly to say no ops when you have a cold as you don't breathe as deeply or cough as effectively so can't clear your lungs well, hence the risk of chest infections.
EauRouge, your posts make me laugh grin
Back to a puking household.

EauRouge Thu 14-Feb-13 16:31:29

Oh nightmare, I hope you feel better soon sad Glad my posts are cheering you up!

So, no vaseline and no colds before an op- and they never told me either! I reckon they were trying to do me in, you know.

cravingcake Thu 14-Feb-13 21:42:47

Just wanted to say Shine the fact you have posted your shopping list as well really did make me smile. Some days its the small thigs.

Also, i've made a metal note of no colds or vaseline before any operations. I had a GA quite a few years ago and didnt recover very well from it, must have been the vaseline or lip balm i'd used beforehand smile.

shine85 Sat 16-Feb-13 00:26:56

Hi girls,
Had my surgery today under GA to remove infected scar tissue. Everyone was really nice. OP was at 8am and woke up at 9.15am in Recovery. Was in pain so nurse pumped pain relief into the back of my hand. She told me the doctor inserted a "pack" inside me. I didn't understand what this was for at was too drowsy at this point to question further. I was in the Day Ward after this in my cubicle where I slept for a bit. At 3pm the nurse came to remove my "vaginal pack". I asked what it was for and she mentioned a hole and to keep infection out of it...what hole?! Did they create one in me?? Have you girls ever heard of this?
Well, anyway, I asked if it would hurt and she said I'd feel some pulling. She started to pull and oh my gosh, it hurt SO BAD! She pulled for what seemed like two whole minutes and what felt like thick barbed wire! I screamed, cried, begged her to stop. She even said herself that there was more in there than necessary. Anyway, she gave me morphine for pain relief, which helped. But as a result I'm now bleeding and going to the toilet is ever so painful! I'm afraid that I might now still have local anaesthetic in me and that's why it's not so painful but what if it's worse tomorrow when the effect of the drugs wears off? Scared. Am scared of the internal pain while weeing and scared the wound might hurt too.
Anyway, in bed now. Thought I'd update you all. Xxx

Jacksmania Sat 16-Feb-13 01:18:33

Oh shine, yuck, that sounds awful!!! I'm so sorry. Have some flowers and a (((((((*HUG*))))))). Did you ask anyone about what the nurse meant by "hole"? One thought I had was that sometimes they don't like to stitch closed an area that was infected, but rather prefer to let it heal from the bottom up (it's called healing by secondary intention and what happens is that granulation tissue fills in the operation site. It's in case they don't get all the infected tissue. Even a tiny bit of it left behind in a stitched-closed round can cause an abscess - last thing you want!!

Have you got any pain relief at home? Did they give you anything, or a prescription?
Thinking of you and hoping tomorrow isn't as bad as you fear.
Did you ever hear that trick of weeing in the shower, or pouring water over your perineum while weeing to dilute the stinginess of urine?
Good luck! Will check in tomorrow. xxJM

shine85 Sat 16-Feb-13 09:30:58

Hi again,
I looked around on Google and apparently the pack they use is something to prevent excess vaginal blood. I don't quite understand because why would my vagina bleed when they're fixing my perineum? I hope it doesn't hurt in the toilet today. It's one thing having to put up with a sore perineum but totally something else having a sore urethra! I hope I don't have an abcess. You're right-that's the last thing I need. I have my pain meds and antibiotic. Hopefully, they'll help. Please continue holding my hand sad

EauRouge Sat 16-Feb-13 11:28:06

shine, sorry you had so much pain, I really hope you feel better soon. Have you got some lactulose or something just in case? Definitely wee in the shower or bath if you're worried about it stinging. (((hug)))

cravingcake Sat 16-Feb-13 12:50:48

shine I echo what EauRouge has said. Hope the pain meds are working.

Jacksmania Sat 16-Feb-13 15:54:26

<sends both hands to be held>
How are you today?

shine85 Sat 16-Feb-13 20:36:21

Hi girls,
Still feeling sore today. Its not the perineum that stings during weeing, but the urethra. Its from when they pulled out the pack. I do use water in the toilet still. I'm very paranoid about it being clean and not getting infected again. I'm on diclofenac and metronidazole, so I hope they keep pain and infection at bay.

Thank you for hand holding, girls. It helps! How are you all?

Jacksmania Sun 17-Feb-13 00:48:47

Doing ok. We're all still not quite ourselves from this stupid norovirus.
You could add some paracetamol to the diclofenac, they're different drugs but they potentate each other so they work better for pain relief.

shine85 Sun 17-Feb-13 00:57:05

They did give me paracetamol. I take it before bed but not with the other meds. Too much of a chicken for that.
Oh no, not the norovirus! Hope you recover from that soon. Can't be pretty. Sending hugs. X

Jacksmania Sun 17-Feb-13 02:58:49

No, you can definitely take diclofenac and paracetamol together. I promise you it's safe. Much more effective pain relief.

smellysocksandchickenpox Sun 17-Feb-13 23:30:16

yup you can take both x

shine85 Mon 18-Feb-13 22:02:04

How are we, girls? Just thought I'd update you:

The last three or so hours have been horrible. I went to toilet and managed to do a number two. That's the good thing, even though I had constipation. Came out toilet and had really bad pain, so went back in bathroom. Now I have an upset stomach and gas. Tmi, but it won't all come out in one go and is causing me gas pain. I took gaviscon hoping that'll help. I don't feel well though.
I guess I don't need lactulose then! And I think it's the diclofenac that is causing the upset stomach (it happened last time) so I think I'm just going to stick with paracetamol and metronidazole.

Note: we haven't dtd since August. I only take the pill (back to back) because I want to prevent my bleed as don't want blood all over my stitches.

Jacksmania Tue 19-Feb-13 00:42:13

Anti-inflammatories like diclofenac often upset people's stomachs, could you try taking it with some solid food?
I hope it gets better soon sad

cravingcake Tue 19-Feb-13 09:18:12

Hi Shine,

That is good you have managed to go to the loo, but not good about the pain. I hope you can have a quiet day of resting. Sometimes a hot water bottle on the tummy or lower back can help with pains but agree its probably the meds that are causing the problem.

Izzybuzzybuzzybees Tue 19-Feb-13 11:39:49

Hello. I was on here many moons ago after the birth of my first baby. I had a prolapse but GYN just told me to deal with it basically. I did have neurotransmitter treatment way back but i was essentially told I'm too young for anything.

Fast forward to today. I'm 16 weeks post birth of my DS. My prolapse is worse, I can feel that it is. I've been referred for physio and have a neurotrac machine for use at home for 6 weeks. No one has looked at my bits but it feels horrific. GP referred me to GYN again and I have appt this afternoon. I feel like its going to be a waste of time as I'm 29 and feel they will not offer surgery. I'm hoping someone can tell me what I need to say to the consultant! And sorry for short notice!

Jacksmania Tue 19-Feb-13 14:57:15

Hi izzy,
The thing that stuck out the most in my mind when I saw the consultant was that he said that (at least here, in Canada) they treat a prolapse based less on the absolute degree of prolapse and more on how it's affecting you.

So tell your consultant exactly how it's affecting you. His much pain, inconvenience, etc. Play it up a bit. Can't believe I'm suggesting that but it seems like being restrained and "sucking it up" won't get you anywhere.
In my case I told him I couldn't run across the street or catch DS if he jumped into my arms without feeling everything want to fall out - and that i had to use two tampons during my period because one woukd just sort of drift behind my cervix since it was down so low, and then I'd bleed all over my clothes - absolutely true, but very much not something I would usually spell out.
Good luck, and do please update!

Izzybuzzybuzzybees Tue 19-Feb-13 17:05:24

Hi jacks thanks for the reply.

Appointment was before your reply but went strangely well. He introduced himself and said so having your babies has wrecked your pelvic floor. He then asked if my family was complete but said your only 29 so still very young for surgery. He said he could see I was having treatment and asked if he could take a look. I said no one else has so far, he then looked and said it was very impressive for someone my age and in fact got the assistant to take a look too! His words the minute I was dressed were "you need surgery" and that was pretty much that. He said that that it's my bladder that is protruding and that no amount of pelvic floor exercises are going to shift it and that surgery is my only option it's just a case of when I want it. He said a ring pessary is no use as because I will need surgery it will only damage my vaginal walls and mean his job is harder as the tissue is damaged. He then went on to say I would need to not lift anything for 3 months post surgery and said that that included my children. He said I have to discuss with DH and whoever will help me with them and make it clear how much they will need to do for me and decide whether to get it now or when baby is walking.

I did not expect that! I mean I can tell its bad from my symptoms and the feeling but didn't realise it was 'you need surgery' bad if that makes sense? My physio had pretty much said he wouldn't operate as I'm 'so young' and that was that. The surgeon has said I need a pelvic floor repair as opposed to mesh. I a, now away to google! All advice etc is much apprEeciated!

Jacksmania Tue 19-Feb-13 19:38:08

Hi Izzy - I'm 8 hours behind you so right after I posted, I realized you probably wouldn't get my reply. I'm so glad the appointment went well. I'm impressed with your surgeon. Often they wishy-wash around and hum and haw, at least this one is very decisive while taking into account your age and the fact that the aftermath of surgery is a very big deal.

Which way are you leaning? Surgery sooner or later?

shine, how's it going, chick?

Izzybuzzybuzzybees Tue 19-Feb-13 19:44:09

It's hard to know which is best. I'm on maternity leave now and breastfeeding. I can't help thinking I don't want my maternity leave and time with my son ruined by being unable to cuddle and lift him etc. I'd also need to stop breastfeeding I'd think. Then on the otherhand the longer I wait the heavier he's going to be and can I avoid actually lifting him for 3 months?! It's so difficult to know. I also think its not great for work if I return from mat leave and then go off sick straight away. It's a manual job I do so would be off the 3 months too. I really don't know!

Izzybuzzybuzzybees Tue 19-Feb-13 19:45:33

Oh and he said he's put me on waiting list. I asked as I was leaving how long it is and he said 6-8 weeks but that I could defer it. He said its so quick as government iniative to get lists down.

Jacksmania Tue 19-Feb-13 20:54:13

I don't know if you'd have to give up breastfeeding - I can't imagine why. I had my first repair op while still breastfeeding. I asked several doctors and all of MN grin and everyone said it was fine.

My own personal feeling is, do it sooner rather than later. If you wait, the anticipation builds, you worry more, and your baby will be bigger, so harder to lift. If you have it done while he's still tiny, you can recover while cuddling on the couch with him.
Just my two pence worth. smile

Izzybuzzybuzzybees Tue 19-Feb-13 22:05:30

My mum implied I wouldn't be able to hold him for feeding etc cos he'd be too heavy!

Jacksmania Wed 20-Feb-13 04:51:06

Eh? I don't think so. I'm assuming you'll be sitting while feeding him? So your pelvic floor will be nicely supported by whatever you're sitting on.
The problem with lifting anything while standing, when you're recovering from surgery, is that lifting increases intra-abdominal pressure. Which stresses your pelvic floor. When you're sitting on it, and lift something, it's supported from below. So, provided you're not doing biceps curls with your baby on one arm, I think you'd be ok.
But the final authority is your surgeon. I can't imagine that sitting with baby on your lap, or baby on a pillow to raise him to breast height, would not be ok.

EauRouge Wed 20-Feb-13 09:36:44

I'm tandem feeding my DDs (almost 2yo and 4yo) and it wasn't so bad. I had to warn them to be careful when they were climbing me but it didn't hurt to hold them or even have them sitting on my lap, although my surgery was probably not as serious as yours. Really, you do not have to stop BF if you don't want to smile

shine85 Wed 20-Feb-13 12:26:49

Hey darlings,

How are we all?

I stopped taking the diclofenac. Don't think I could face another episode of upset stomach and gas pain. This resulted in swelling so I was on the phone my gp who wouldn't give me an appointment, so we ended up in a&e. After about four hours of waiting they checked infection (thank you, Lord!). But they gave me codeine. Also, today in starting in arnica tablets which I hope will help. So, all in all, I'm on metronidazole, codeine, paracetamol, arnica and the pill (back to back to prevent my bleed...don't want blood over my stitches!).

Happy healing, ladies. Hope it's going well for you.

Insecure24 Wed 20-Feb-13 13:43:41

Hi all, may I join? I have dd who's 2.8. I had a 3a tear, MROP, PPH, rectocele. The rectocele was sorted out when I also required a full restitch of the area. I had fissures on the scar and still require laxido to soften my poo. Touch wood I've had no "accidents" but my issue is this and it links to my name. I haven't had sex since. The thought makes me shudder and when I've tried I just tense and tense and tense. My bf is just wonderful, no pressure whatsoever and we've done ahem everuthing else hundreds of times I just can't contemplate him being inside. But I now want another baby. Major barrier right now! I'm considering CBT. Anyone else tried? I've had psychosexual counselling and dilators but nothing to write home about sad

EauRouge Wed 20-Feb-13 14:19:36

Oh shine, you poor thing sad I hope that things improve for you soon. Can you take ibuprofen, doesn't that help with swelling?

Insecure CBT might be worth a go. I'm seeing a counsellor who specialises in psychosexual disorders and she is fab. How did you get on with your counsellor? Maybe a different one would be more helpful. Glad that your DP is being so supportive and I hope things get better for you.

I'm pretty much back to normal. I'm on my period at the moment and not allowed to use tampons or a mooncup so that's v annoying. I've got my 6 week check in a couple of weeks so hopefully I will get the all clear (DH is counting down the days grin ). I've started running again and it's comfortable, I'm going to sign up for a 10k if my 6 week appt goes OK.

shine85 Wed 20-Feb-13 15:53:44

Hey rouge, I was thinking of ibuprofen but want sue if I could take that with metronidazole and arnica

cravingcake Wed 20-Feb-13 16:47:50

Shine that's a lot of pills - you will be rattling smile Not sure about ibuprofen and metronidazole (don't know what that is sorry) but it would be fine with the arnica.

Insecure24 Welcome along. I posted on your thread about CBT but as you have added a bit more here I would suggest maybe trying hypnosis. I had this for treating depression and nail biting and it was £60 a session. I'll post this on your other thread too in case it helps others.

EauRouge that sounds great you are nearly back to normal.

Just as an update on my situation, I'm still waiting! Argh. Three weeks now waiting to just get my appointment to see this second consultant. I've been back to my GP who says they cant do any more, and am calling every other day to see when I'll get in and so far nothing.

shine85 Thu 21-Feb-13 10:24:13

Eaurouge, it's wonderful you're nearly back to normal...that's great news! Hope you're 100% recovered soon.

Craving, three weeks is a long time to wait sad hope they hurry up and you're feeling better soon.

And how's our lovely jacks getting on?

Insecure24 Thu 21-Feb-13 10:38:43

Thank you! I want another baby soo much it's become a bit of an obsession confused. Especially when so many friends are pregnant. I just really really struggle to overcome the mental block of having sex since my 3a tear and restitch 2.8 years ago. Plus, after I had her, my periods went mental so was given mirena and pill together which I'm still on. Really want to give them up but scared (petrified) of haywire bleeding again.

shine85 Thu 21-Feb-13 12:50:44

Insecure, I know how you feel! Every time One Born Every Minute Congress on I'm like "Aw,I want one!". I feel my time with my newborn was robbed since I can't even enjoy her properly now at four monthssad
I hope it all goes well for you fall pregnant again. X

EauRouge Thu 21-Feb-13 13:38:35

I cuddled my friend's hours old baby the other day and only felt broody for about 5 seconds. Now, dog-broodiness, that I can't shake off grin DH says no though the bastard.

I get what you mean Insecure, I was the same when I got pregnant with DD2. I swear EVERYONE in the world except me was pregnant. I hope it happens for you soon.

raggedyanny Fri 22-Feb-13 09:54:27

Hi, still waiting for an appointment with the Dr, just a quick question I'm due a smear (overdue, I've never actually had one!) internals during pregnancy never really bothered me, but now with my rubbish bits I'm putting it off as I'm dreading the pain, any advice? Other than just go for it (which I will, I just don't want to!)

shine85 Fri 22-Feb-13 10:57:28

Had a scare last night. I was in bed and felt left side of my face swell up. Didn't sleep much at all worrying about bells palsy our a reaction to the meds.

This morning, I went to do a number two (sorry for all tmis here) and my bottom is still swollen. Soft stools but still made it harder to poo because I obviously want it as clean as I can get it.

so, that's a swollen face and swollen bum and pain at site of op.

Managed to get a doctor app with another doctor though.
I'm feeling so low.

cravingcake Fri 22-Feb-13 12:45:07

Shine I don't know what that could be, or what to say, but I bet it is scary. Hand holding as required!

raggedyanny Book in for your smear. It is normally done by a nurse at the doctor surgery. They will know its your first smear and should be understanding and explain everything they are going to do. They should also ask if you have any worries or questions before you even undress. Just tell them you are obviously nervous and a bit worried.

They will then ask you to undress behind a curtain, lie on the bed and cover yourself with the flattering blue paper towelling. They will use a speculum to open your vagina and then use what looks like a large cotton wool bud to take a few cells from your cervix. Then its a case of get dressed, go home and wait for about a week for results in the post.

Advice - try to book it for the middle of your cycle as any blood can mean you need to go back for another test.
It doesn't actually hurt (even with damaged/broken bits), just feels uncomfortable and don't be worried if you bleed a little bit afterwards, a panty liner should be all you need.

I have had 2 since my DS (have had abnormal results a few times) and they were both uncomfortable but the nurses I had were brilliant and totally understanding. The build up to it was way worse than the actual smear.

shine85 Fri 22-Feb-13 14:05:44

It is scary, yes. Thanks for the hand holding.

I just got in from the doctor. A different one this time. He examined me, then said that yes, it is swollen, and the worst part: infection. I'm terrified of the stitches opening up. I don't understand because I've not missed a dose of metronidazole antibiotic. He prescribed more antibiotics for me and did said shower the area twice a day. Feeling very teary.

cravingcake Fri 22-Feb-13 14:50:30

Oh shine, really feel for you. If it helps have a good old sob, sometimes its the only thing to do. I'd curl up on the sofa with a big snuggly blanket, some chocolate, warm mug of tea and watch a favourite old film.

To try to keep infection at bay, after showering do you have the luxury of time to 'air dry'. If its warm enough lay down on a towel on the bed for 10 minutes legs akimbo as required Also, wash your bath towels on a really hot wash and change them regularly, in case little sticky germy hands grin have been using them.

I just remembered that peppermint tea is good to aid digestion so this could help having a cup or two a day.

Insecure24 Fri 22-Feb-13 16:03:37

Shine sending you a big hug. I ha metronidazole a few times following my restitch after 3a tear. The antibs themselves made me feel like death warmed up. What surgery have you had?

shine85 Fri 22-Feb-13 17:51:39

Craving, I did have a sob sad needed that release so it all came out. I tried so hard to prevent infection sad I dry as much as possible and always wear a thick pad (kotex night time).

I'll try the peppermint tea thing though. I was actually on the sofa few nights ago with a blanket and chocolate watching eastenders.

Insecure, I had the re stitch too. last Friday. When did you have yours? X

Insecure24 Fri 22-Feb-13 18:49:48

I had mine 2.5 years ago. I remember being in WAY more pain after that than the initial job when dd was first born and was alternating paracetamol and ibu like they were going out of fashion but sure its coz she did a tighter job with the stitches. Oh and the pack - fracking hell that thing just kept coming and coming. How much do they stuff up there?! I had to sit on a doughnut cushion for a few weeks and remember blood in my wee a couple of times but it is soooo much better now than before. Hang in there. I had the metronidazole before my surgery but don't remember being given any after the op. My consultant gave me fucibet cream to rub into the healing scar after about 6 weeks which was soothing. Any more info I can recall/help with just holla!

shine85 Sat 23-Feb-13 00:26:03

How long did it take? I did think of taking ibuprofen but wasn't sure if I could with my antibiotics (metronidazole and clarithromycin). It is horrid, isn't it?
The removal if the pack was worse than the surgery! They gave me morphine to make it better but doing a wee was painful for about three days. That is now better.
I hate taking antibiotics because of side effects, but I suppose we can't be without them either.
I had a dreadful thought though; what if the stitches open up AGAIN???
Thanks btw.

Jacksmania Sat 23-Feb-13 02:38:09

Shine, when I had my first op (vaginal repair, four years ago) my surgeon told me I had to have salt baths every day, definitely one, two per day would be better. She said I could use kosher salt or any old table salt. (I think, this feels a very long time ago now.) it was to help prevent infection. So twice a day I got in a very hot tub with two big handfuls of kosher salt in, and soaked for 15 mins. I also added big dollops of lavender essential oil and tea tree oil. Blow dried my bits after. Nothing got infected so maybe it helped or I got lucky.
After my second op (perineal repair) I didn't do salt baths as we were having our entire house renovated and I had no tub, and my stitches got infected. So I swear by salt baths.

Did the Dr say why your face was swollen?
Poor you sad - what a shit time you've had.

Jacksmania Sat 23-Feb-13 02:41:29

I'm a bit grumpy today because I have my period, my cycles are all over the map and this one was 24 days hmm and surprised me at work. I suppose I must be working towards being resigned to having a hysterectomy, as my first thought was "bloody hell - oh well, hopefully not too many more of these!" grin

Insecure24 Sat 23-Feb-13 09:02:00

I had salt baths several times a day and after every poo (at home, harder elsewhere!) I rinsed myself with the detachable shower head. Oh and consultant said don't use loo roll its too rough, use baby wipes as they have aloe in which is lovely and soothing. smile

Jacksmania Sat 23-Feb-13 15:25:31

I used, and still do, loo roll with a squirt of aloe vera gel on it. My poor tender abused bum was very grateful!

shine85 Sat 23-Feb-13 18:47:59

I always thought using the baby wipes would not be good for the stitches...? Otherwise, if love to give it a go. X

EauRouge Sat 23-Feb-13 19:03:49

I was told to use baby wipes too. Remember not to flush them though, they clog up the pipes.

cravingcake Mon 25-Feb-13 12:23:00

How's everyone doing?

I have finally got my appointment for my gynae consultant, 25th of March, so another 4 weeks of waiting but I may be able to get in sooner if there's any cancellations.

shine85 Mon 25-Feb-13 13:39:43

That's great, craving! Sucks you have to wait that long, but at last you're in!

Some people, including my mum, have said that when stitches start to itch it's a sign of healing and the skin coming together. Well, I'm ten days post op and I don't feel any itching. I'm slightly concerned now. Does itching occur for everyone?

EauRouge Mon 25-Feb-13 14:26:49

I itched like crazy, I expect it's different for everyone though. Have you had a look in the mirror yet?

Craving, glad you got your date, fingers crossed for a cancellation.

Jacksmania Mon 25-Feb-13 16:13:05

I never itched shock - can you imagine wanting to scratch a freshly reassembled fanjo????

EauRouge Mon 25-Feb-13 17:02:51

It's not much fun, Jacks, all you want to do is scratch but when you do it hurts like hell! Mine was so bad after having DD1 I was convinced I had thrush.

Jacksmania Mon 25-Feb-13 20:41:54

shock <clamps legs together>

FrillyMummy Tue 26-Feb-13 11:28:44

Hi! I've just been directed to this thread. I don't suppose you could help? I am on my phone so can't copy my post, but here is the link if you could take a look? I'm getting desperate sad

FrillyMummy Tue 26-Feb-13 11:29:18

Forgot to post the bloody link - exhausted!!

Here is Frillys thread. I hope someone can help. x

cravingcake Tue 26-Feb-13 12:36:15

Hi Frilly I've just read your other post and yes there is help available.

Ask to see another GP or if you feel ok, ask the original GP to refer you to a gynaecologist consultant. They will be able to have a good look and let you what they can do, which may be what I've been offered which is a perennial refashion.

Do you know what degree tear you had? Where I live its standard procedure for any woman who had 3rd or 4th degree to be seen by gynae consultant about 3 months after the birth.

Jacksmania Tue 26-Feb-13 15:13:27

Hi Frilly, definitely go back to your GP and ask for a gynaecologist referral. There are lots of options - lots of us have had perineal repair and refashion. There is no way that you should be having pain during sex, that needs to be sorted. Make an app't with the GP and we'll all
Hold your hand.

FrillyMummy Tue 26-Feb-13 15:45:14

Thanks Jacks and Craving. My tear was only second degree. I say 'only' but it was freaking awful! Do you think they'd do a perineal repair on a second degree? What is the procedure like? I'm scared that it would take forever to recover like after Lyla was born hmm

EauRouge Tue 26-Feb-13 16:02:55

I only had a second degree tear too, it was a funny shape though and they cocked up the stitches. It wasn't life threatening but it was uncomfortable having sex and even using tampons and it was also affecting me psychologically.

My GP was very sympathetic- I deliberately booked in to see a woman who had children- and referred me right away. Even though I went private in the end (didn't like the NHS consultant), it would have only taken me a few months to get fixed on the NHS.

The GP told me that there's a clinic at the hospital that deals solely with post-childbirth fanjo repairs because it's such a common issue. Don't feel like you're being fussy, demanding a designer vagina or any of that stuff- this happens a lot and it can be fixed! Can you see a different GP? The one you saw doesn't sound very sympathetic- was it a bloke?

Recovery was waaaaaaay easier than childbirth. I was only in pain for a couple of days, walking around normally after about a week and was back running 2 miles within 3 weeks. It depends on the surgery you have done but I found mine much easier than recovering from childbirth because you don't also have to look after a newborn, have massive, swollen boobs etc. I managed with a few days off and then back to looking after a 4 yo and almost 2 yo.

Good luck with getting a referral, I hope you manage to get it sorted out smile

FrillyMummy Thu 28-Feb-13 09:23:18

Well, I've got an appointment to see the Dr at 4pm this afternoon. Fingers crossed she will take me seriously. She is a gynaecologist too so I would have thought she would have been a bit more understanding the first time. I think I will just be totally honest about how it is affecting my confidence and sex life and how down it's getting me. Fingers crossed for a referral!

Good luck Frilly. This should be the first step to getting the help and understanding and referral you want.

cravingcake Thu 28-Feb-13 09:30:30

Frilly, good luck for your appointment. I have my fingers crossed for you too.

EauRouge Thu 28-Feb-13 10:00:43

Good luck with the appointment. Yes, definitely be honest; abandon the stiff upper lip! Hope it goes well.

Jacksmania Thu 28-Feb-13 15:12:01

Good luck!!!!

cravingcake Thu 28-Feb-13 16:11:06

Every now and then we get a little bit of luck, there's been a cancellation and my appointment is now on 11th of March. smile

FrillyMummy Thu 28-Feb-13 16:35:39

Well. I went and she did refer me, but she clearly didn't think it was necessary. She said that it has healed fine and the NHS probably wouldn't do anything. She said the only reason she would refer me is because I said it was causing pain during sex, but she made it clear that she thought I was over reacting. I got home and cried because now I feel like I'm imagining it all. Maybe it's not such a big deal as I think? Urgh. Thanks for your well wishes though smile

shine85 Thu 28-Feb-13 16:53:23

Craving, I'm thrilled you got your appointment! Great news. smile

Frilly, that consultant sounds like a right cow! I hate doctors that make you feel like you're imagining it all and overreacting. It's such unfair behaviour. Hope everything goes well with the referral. I feel bad for you. Hugs.

I just got back from the doctor. She wouldn't tell me if the stitches had opened up or not, but said "there's the bit at the back that doesn't seem to be healing." That's the bit that's weeping. She took a swab and said don't wash with water after the toilet, which I had been doing. She said go knicker-less and urine falling on it is a good thing. <br />
She wouldn't give me antibiotics because in her words "we give them out but they're not that effective."<br /><br />
I'm also being tested for anaemia and diabetes.<br /><br />
I would've thought I'd heal this time. It's two weeks tomorrow since the op. I'm just fed up of it all and don't know what lies ahead. <br />
I'm seeing specialist on Tuesday, so we'll see.

Hold my hand, ladies.

cardamomginger Thu 28-Feb-13 16:54:59

So sorry she was horrid to you. sad angry. The important thing is that you have the referral. It's not for her to decide whether and what anything will be done. And just because she is (a) female and (b) had a special interest in gynae means bugger all. She's not a specialist - if she was she would be working as one and not as a GP. For what it's worth, in my long journey towards diagnosis and surgical treatment, the GP at my practice who was the least sympathetic and the most obstructive was the gynae one.
Ignore her. I know it's hard. You know how your body feels. And you know what feels wrong. Any doctor worth their salt should know that. Please don't allow her to discourage you and don't let her make you feel you have to be apologetic.

cravingcake Thu 28-Feb-13 17:16:01

Frilly try to focus on the positive, you have your referral to a gynae consultant which is great news. Don't let that stop you from having a good old cry as it is emotional and unpleasant having an examination and talking about very personal things with someone you only know for 10 minutes. Maybe try between now and your appointment try keeping a diary or daily note of when you are sore, what makes things uncomfortable and for how long and try to work out exactly where (is it internal, external, scar tissue? etc) hurts. Doesn't need to be lots of detail but it may help you when you see the gynae to be able to tell them. I have a horrible skin tag and my episiotomy scar actually everything really get very sore and achy in the week or so leading up to my period.

Shine hand holding in your direction for Tuesday!

EauRouge Thu 28-Feb-13 18:44:39

Frilly Sorry your GP was such a bellend. I'm sure the consultant will be more sympathetic and listen to you more! Cardamom is right, you know your body. It's all very well for the GP to say that it's healed well but she can't feel what you feel, can she? Eejit woman (her, not you).

Shine Sorry to hear you're still not healed up sad Fingers crossed that the specialist will be able to sort you out.

FrillyMummy Thu 28-Feb-13 19:14:32

Thank you all SO much smile You are very kind and so right. The thing that is toughest is that it makes it hard to be intimate with DH. He frets that he is hurting me and I can't get into it because of the stinging! Also (tmi), I now find that lube stings like buggery. It's awful and it only stings where I tore. Has anyone else found that?

I know I'm new, but I'll hold your hand too, Shine! smile

choppet Thu 28-Feb-13 21:24:56

Hi, I just wanted to introduce myself, hope I am doing this in the right place! I am based in Ireland and saw someone recommend this site as I cannot find anything on Irish forums where I could identify with others...

My story (v brief version!) is that I had my little boy just over a year ago. I had a 41 hour labour culminating in a forceps delivery with an episiotomy. I suffered a 4th degree tear, aswell as a massive post partum haemmorhage causing me to lose 4 litres of blood in less than a minute. I was immediately taken to theatre where I was operated on with a team of 15 for 4 hours. I didnt get to see my baby even for a fleeting second and didnt get to meet him for 2 days as after surgery I was transferred to ICU. I suffered further complications in theatre and went into anaphylactic shock as I had an allergic reaction to blood products I was given...
The treatment I received in hospital post natally was appalling, at one point (3 days after all of this) being told to 'get out of bed and feed your baby'. I have been told very little from the hospital apart from that I had 'catastrophic'injuries and they did not expect me to pull through. I did pull through but have had a nightmare the past year. I have not had any incontinence problems but I basically closed over down below following the repair (to the extent that they couldnt examine me at all) and I underwent further surgery in October to open it up again. I didnt know this was possible to happen and neither did the doctors caring for me...
there is more to story but I am too tired to type it all now but just wanted to join the group. I tried sex for first time last weekend and ripped my scar tissue a bit. It was extremely painful. My Consultant has prescribed instilagel....has anyone used this to help with painful sex? thanks for reading xxx

FrillyMummy Thu 28-Feb-13 21:34:48

Hi Choppet. Wow. You have had a really tough time of it shock You poor thing. I'm so sorry that the hospital staff were so awful. I am v new to this thread, but I am certain that the others will be able to help - they are lovely. Is the dr saying that the gel is the only option?

cardamomginger Thu 28-Feb-13 22:41:43

Hi choppet. Bloody hell, love sad. A gynae once used instillagel when she manually broke my scar tissue. I didn't feel a thing! I think it is fab stuff and I use it for pain relief after surgery squirted it on a maternity pad. Your DH might need to wear a condom though - the lidocaine might have a bit of a dterimental effect on him....
If the pain is also a case of tough scar tissue, ultrasound might help to soften it a bit.

choppet Thu 28-Feb-13 22:45:56

Hi FrillyMummy,

Thanks for reply. I probably should have mentioned that I now attend a different hospital to where I had my son. My new Consultant said that she feels a further surgery wont be required and that with time the scar tissue will stretch with sex and that in the mean time I can use the gel to numb where I am sore...
She wants me to focus on getting psychologically strong first...She has referred me to a specialist counsellor which is fantastic because up til now I have no counselling. There is nothing available publicly here, only if you pay privately at 75 euro an hour, i did try a few sessions with that but it was just a regular counsellor not someone trained in birth trauma...consultant said to focus on getting emotionally strong first as I have found this past year extremely difficult.
How are you getting on? I am only getting through reading through everyones stories....

cravingcake Fri 01-Mar-13 07:15:19

Choppet I cant believe you haven't had any counselling. What happened to you sounds absolutely horrible. I had PTSD and PND and had counselling for both and cant recommend it enough. Although I realise it will cost you (I had it on the NHS) it would be really worth while.

Does your hospital offer a chance for you to go through the notes of what happened? Being able to read through at your own pace and when you feel able to can really help you process it in your mind.

Sorry I don't have any experience of gel. But am another one here who will hold your hand if you need it.

EauRouge Fri 01-Mar-13 08:54:01

Choppet, I'm so sorry for everything that happened to you sad Counselling with someone that specialises in birth trauma might really help you out. I'm having counselling and it's really helped me even after only a few sessions.

I don't know how the system works over there, can you get insurance? Do any counsellors work on a sliding scale like they do here?

FrillyMummy Fri 01-Mar-13 10:47:55

That gel sounds amazing! Maybe I should try it. Can you buy it or is it prescription only?

cardamomginger Fri 01-Mar-13 14:04:22

Prescription only, I'm afraid.

Jacksmania Fri 01-Mar-13 17:03:01

<waves at all and sundry, especially cardamomginger - lovely to see you>

choppet - sorry love, but holy shit!!!!! Even having been on three Ragged Bits threads now, your story shocked me.

Will be back with a more useful post later, just wanted to say hi, and also to say that cyee who started the first Ragged Bits thread is having her third DF by elCS on Monday so let's all send her loving thoughts for that day. thanks

Jacksmania Fri 01-Mar-13 17:03:55

Cyee is having her third daughter, not a third DF, whatever that might be blush - oops!

shine85 Fri 01-Mar-13 17:27:23

Choppet, that is awful! Did you complain? I would never let anyone get away with something like that, it's just not right.

I just came out the toilet and there was blood. Bright red bloody discharge. Not too much, not too little either. I don't know what it is, but it's not a period. I'm taking the pill back to back to prevent that. <br />
It started after my op when they removed the vaginal pack from me. I don't even know why the gynae inserted the pack. In a letter to my gp he said I had vaginal scarring and that I complained of vaginal pain...which I did not and didn't even know about the vaginal scarring. He didn't discuss this with me. As far as I knew,I was going in for a cut and re stitch. <br />
It's two weeks today since the op and I'm not healed. stitches are oozing and doctor wouldn't tell me if they were open or not.

I see the gynae on Tuesday. I don't know what to say to him. I do NOT want a repeat of last time. All those infections and granulation tissue.
I love my little girl so, so much but I'm beginning to wish I'd never fallen pregnant. What if I never fix and won't be able to take care of her? I'm scared.

cravingcake Fri 01-Mar-13 18:16:36

Oh Shine you really are having a rough time. As far as what to say to gynae on Tuesday, say exactly what you have said here, that you don't want a repeat of last time.

Bright red blood would indicate that its fresh, not 'old' like it had been hanging about for a bit so wouldn't have thought it was period blood IYKWIM. Maybe try calling your ooh doctor or NHS direct for a bit of guidance, or do you have a contact number for aftercare. As its now wine o'clock on a Friday its unlikely you will get an answer on that but you may be able to leave a message and they could call you back tomorrow <grasping at straws>

You definitely need chocolate. Lots of chocolate. And a big (((hug))))

FrillyMummy Sat 02-Mar-13 00:13:20

Oh shine how rotten sad I don't know what to say except you will heal eventually. It will all be ok and you will be able took after your daughter. I'm so so sorry you are going through this. It must be so rotten. <wine> winewinebrewbrew

Insecure24 Sat 02-Mar-13 05:50:56

Shine have you got a lot of help at home during the day? I remember feeling that for the first 4 months after dd being born I was useless to everyone, couldn't even sit down barely! I also alone because i was younger than a lot of mums and didnt feel i had many people to openly talk to about it all (Im 25 now!). But then about 2/3 weeks after my restitch suddenly a light switched and I didn't need painkillers, I could hold dd, bathe her etc and it really felt like a cloud had lifted. I'm still having problems with sex and dd is 2.9 now but that's nothing to do with anything anatomically down below that's my own psychological fear which I'm getting help. You WILL heal, you just need to rest and don't compare your recovery to other peoples.

Jacksmania Sat 02-Mar-13 16:07:45

Oh shine, I wish I had an answer for you. I'm sorry I'm banging on about this but have you tried salt baths? They really helped with getting my stitches healed and stopped oozing and discharge.
Sorry to sound like a fanatic but I found them so helpful.

choppet Sat 02-Mar-13 19:49:58

Thanks for all the kind words ladies. Shine, you poor chicken, i know exactly how you feel, I felt like that for ages that I couldnt care for my little boy properly and was a failure despite trying my best...Dont compare yourself to others as those who have had a straightforward time are in a total different category to are doing amazingly well and are a great example to your little one of courage and determination xxx

cardamomginger Sat 02-Mar-13 21:48:31

Hi Jacks - nice to see you too! I was away from the threads for a while, as it all got too much for me. But am back now! Lovely news about cyee. Really wish her well.

Shine. So sorry sad. Have they swabbed you for thrush? This can mess about with the stitches a bit and make things bleed. Could it be a loose stitch that's aggravating things? Could it be breakthrough bleeding from the pill? I did back-to-back packs once, and it was never enough to 'hold' it back indefinitely. I never got a proper period, but I got bloody discharge. I had my third op almost 3 weeks ago and even though the uterus wasn't involved (this time!), I always gets bits of bloody discharge for a quite a few weeks afterwards. And the first few periods are horrible. I think my body just really objects to being messed about with like this! I really hope it is nothing serious.

And I know what you mean when you said that it might have been better if you had never got pregnant. I was having similar thoughts only last night. I love my DD so so so much. And I'd do anything for her. But if I'd known that this would be the deal, I doubt I would have wanted to try for a baby. That doesn't mean that I wish her away, or wish she hadn't been born. Although it's hard not to feel guilty for thinking what I did. XX

TheNewStatesman Mon 04-Mar-13 02:27:53

"The treatment I received in hospital post natally was appalling, at one point (3 days after all of this) being told to 'get out of bed and feed your baby'. "

Jesus, this makes me angry. Had they got rid of the well-baby nursery at your hospital? I hear that this is very common in Irish hospitals recently.

EauRouge Mon 04-Mar-13 12:22:33

Afternoon all. I had a reply from the hospital today about the letter I'd sent- 5 pages of excuses. Wish I hadn't bothered now sad I've got another counsellor appointment on Wed but think it will be my last one. It was her idea to write to the hospital and it's just made me feel a million times worse.

On the bright side my fanjo appears to be fine and I've got my 6 week check next week! I need to start thinking about contraception soon, it's almost time to get back in the saddle.

cardamomginger Mon 04-Mar-13 12:48:49

Eau - I had the same thing. Pages of excuses and it made me feel dreadful. I showed a consultant who was treating me for the birth injuries their letter and he thought their position was a load of weasily nonsense. So I wrote back. I even quoted the manufacturers guidelines for the suture they had used to show they had used the wrong one. More excuses and patronising rubbish in return. One of the things I was told was that it is so easy for patients to get confused when they hear conflicting advice about what actually is the correct thing to do. [sangry]
They are always going to do this and they will never say anything even remotely along the lines of 'maybe we could have done something a bit differently', in case you decide to sue them. They are never even going to apologise in case that is construed as evidence of responsibility.
I thought about it for a while afterwards - whether it would have been better not to have written to them, because their replies really did upset me very much. On balance I think I am glad I wrote because the maternity unit needed to know that the birth had been catastrophic for me.
I'm really really sorry though. Hugs XX

cardamomginger Mon 04-Mar-13 12:54:44

As for your counsellor's advice to write - I think they don't always understand how hospital bureaucracy works. I had one counsellor, who I dumped, suggest that I sue, because that would make me feel better. I had to very patiently explain to her exactly what the long and traumatic legal procedure would involve and the stresses it would place on me. I further explained that even cases where the damage sustained is far far worse than mine and far far more easily attributable to the cock up of a particular doctor (I was thinking of a case I;d found about some poor woman who'd ended up with a permanent colostomy bag, and I think unable to have more children) had failed at the first attempt and had ended up settling out of court.
Is it this suggestion that is making you think you should sack her? What sort of counselling are you having? Some find straightfoward 'talking about' it helpful. Others have benefited from CBT. I'm having EMDR, which is a specific trauma therapy.

EauRouge Mon 04-Mar-13 13:03:58

Thanks, cardamom, I really appreciate you replying. I think the whole maternity care system in this country is fucked and I don't have the time or energy to do anything about it. I'd rather just draw a line under it now and get on with my life, I can accept that we will have 2 children instead of the 3 we originally planned.

I'm just having NHS counselling. She's really nice but I don't think she can help me. I just need to know that I'm not always going to feel like this.

cardamomginger Mon 04-Mar-13 13:20:36

Fucked beyond belief!! One of my huge bug bears is maternity services discharge women at a point when the full extent of birth injuries and trauma may very well not have become apparent. The information that they impart and use to make decisions concerning care, based on audit and individual professional experience, is not, in my opinion, long term enough.

As far as my hospital was concerned, I was a roaring success. First time 'older' mother, and all I had was an epidural and only sustained a second-degree tear and a bleed just the right side of a PPH. Discharged the next day. Woo hoo - high five everyone!! Well no - rectocele, cytocele, uterine prolapse, enterocele, detatched pubo-rectalis, displaced coccyx, pain, infection, mobility problems, PTSD..... So far I've had three gynae operations and 2 procedures on my back.

NONE of this gets back to the unit where I delivered, so they will record me as a success in their audits. Makes me really angry.

cardamomginger Mon 04-Mar-13 13:22:40

was so <<grr>> I forgot the double incontinence....

EauRouge Mon 04-Mar-13 13:30:08

It's so shit, isn't it? And the MWs just refuse to accept that it's anything less than perfect.

I can't decide whether to read the letter again or just burn the fucking thing. One of the things that bothered me about the birth is that the MWs kept telling me how I felt and wouldn't listen to me when I disagreed. The letter is just more of the same.

cardamomginger Mon 04-Mar-13 13:38:57

Yup sad. I've got a friend who is a MW. Very senior, with about 25 years experience. She's adamant that she has never heard of anything like what's happened to me. Ever. I asked her how would she ever find out what truly happened to any of her patients 3, 6, 12 months down the line. She couldn't answer me. And why this sodding obsession with VB? Why is that the ultimate success? It's almost like the holy grail - to be achieved no matter what the costs to the individual woman.

If I were you I'd hang on to the letter for now. But in a drawer far, far away where you won't come across it. You might want to come back to it at some point. Or you might want to devise a more satisfying ritual burning....

WhodveThought Tue 05-Mar-13 01:30:57

Cardamomginger-'And why this sodding obsession with VB?' THIS. THIS THIS THIS is what drives me so crazy.

I was told that the disastrous birth I had was preferable to a c-section because I had 'avoided surgery'. Well, I disagree on two counts to that statement. I didn't 'avoid surgery' as they spent an hour stitching me back together while I spilled blood like nobody's business. And 2 years on I have fecal incontinence, rectocele, rectal prolapse, PTSD, I have lost track of the tests I've had done and specialists I have seen. Plus! It looks like I will have had THREE corrective surgeries because of their wretched insistence on VB.

Why do they do this? I wish I could drag these MW and doctors to this forum and make them look at the reality of their decision making.

Whoa. Turns out I had a bit to say about that!

Jacksmania Tue 05-Mar-13 02:24:58

<applauds whodvethought>

I like what you have to say.

When I confronted my MW about her massive mismanagement of my labour and birth (6 months postpartum, when the extent of the damage was just becoming obvious) her best defense was... (drum roll)... "I wanted to spare you a scar on your uterus".

Fuck me sideways. I'm feeling a bit emotional today (have had kind of a shit couple of days) and if she was in front of me right now, I'd have to scream at her that her ridiculous agenda, five years later, is going to result in me having a scar on my belly and guess what, you old cow, no fucking uterus AT ALL!!!

Agh. Sorry. Having a hard day.
I made the mistake of browsing Active Convos and there's a thread in AIBU titled "Competitive Births". The OP was very upset because she'd had shit births herself and a friend of hers had sneezed out a baby (how lovely for her, honestly) but then started lecturing the OP saying that if she (the OP) had only done XYZ, she could have had lovely births herself.
I know that's a pile of shite. But it hits that nerve, that one that rears its ugly head and asks if I could have done better. If I could have done something different. If I had only held out longer, and refused the epidural. If only, if only, if fucking only.
I thought I'd worked through this, I really did... but right now I'm hurting all over again, wondering how much is my fault, and if any of this could have been avoided.

<bangs head on table>

Jacksmania Tue 05-Mar-13 02:26:44

Sorry, spilled a bit more there than I meant to.
<stiffens upper lip>

On a happy note: Cyee's little DD was born via elCS today (March 4, it's still today here) and when she messaged me baby was nursing happily grin grin grin
<wipes away happy tear>

Jacksmania Tue 05-Mar-13 02:30:54

Oh, one more thing:

I was contacted by a journalist via PM last week (I think that's actually a no-no but I didn't want to be a cow and say so, since she'd posted on one of the Ragged threads about her own troubles) asking if anyone on this thread would like to be interviewed for the DM, and talk about any ongoing issues after the kind of birth that landed all of us on this thread.

I declined the interview because she said whoever spoke with her would likely have to consent to being identified by name, and I'm not doing that. I have a very unique name, I am the only one in the world with my name as far as I can tell, and if any potential clients Googled me professionally, my name would come up on top, and I really don't want anyone to click on and find out all about my ragged bits right along with my office address hmm.

If anyone is interested, PM me, I can put you in touch with her.

EauRouge Tue 05-Mar-13 09:04:52

I also have a unique name. Am slightly tempted though because if there's one thing that'll put my step-dad off buying the DM it's reading about my vagina over his morning toast grin

I'm with you all on this. If I ever have the misfortune to get pregnant again then I will be camping out on the consultant's doorstep until they agree to an ELCS. I know it can be riskier but I am not bloody going through labour again. No way. I don't trust the NHS to keep me and my baby safe through natural labour.

EauRouge Tue 05-Mar-13 09:08:34

Are journos meant to be PMing people? Aren't they meant to start a thread in media requests? confused

cardamomginger Tue 05-Mar-13 10:23:23

Jacks - that's lovely news about cyee!! smile

Yes, I saw the 'Competitive Birth' thread as well. Stepped away after the first page. Just too upsetting. Although, I'd almost love it if anyone did tell me to my face that my injuries are my own fault for not doing it right or having the correct attitude - I'm sure that the circles of hell I would unleash in response would be kind of therapeutic!

I wish that HCPs would at the very least be HONEST about the risks of VB. It's all about the risks of CS (where the risks of EMCS and ELCS, although very different, are conflated). And in the 'natural birth' brigade it's all about the risks of interventions and how they can damage you physically and result in bonding issues. Give us the risks of VB straight, and let us choose whether or not we wish to take that chance with our pelvic floor and continence (An Australian friend who had her first DC in that country says they are much more open about it and much more open to a woman choosing ELCS). And give the risks on an individualised basis - a first timer in her late 30s or early 40s, is completely different to a first timer in her late teens or early 20s. And if it's about money, then stop focussing on your own departmental budget and look at the NHS as a whole. I can't find the link at the moment, but according to St Mary's tertiary urogynae department, dealing with female urinary incontinence takes up 1-2% of the total NHS budget. The costs of diagnosing and treating my birth injuries currently stand at £39,000. Admittedly this is through private healthcare, so we need to allow for whatever multiplier private healthcare applied to ensure they are profitable, but this still would have been a huge amount of money for the NHS.


And breathes. Rant not really over, but DD about to start serious havoc.

So sorry you are having a crap few days Jacks. Hugs. Not doing great here either. DH and I finally had the conversation this past weekend where we made the decision that DD will be an only child. It hurts sad.

Oh and yes - right with you on the DM interview thing. Apart from not wanting to be identifiable, I'm not sure I'd want to be exposed (even anonymously) to the vitriol and ignorance that seems to be typical of many DM readers.

Jacksmania Tue 05-Mar-13 15:11:16

No, journos aren't meant to PM. But I don't mind that she did because she was part one of one the Ragged threads and had a shedload of her own troubles.

There was a thread in Feminism, of all things, about the consequences and risks of childbirth. I'll see if I can search and link to it later.
I nearly posted a link to our thread many times (something along the lines of "the risks if childbirth in three heartbreaking threads" but pulled back every time. Not sure why. I tried reading the thread, but, like the AIBU one, it just upset me too much.

CG, I'm sad for you re talk with DH and deciding your DD will be an only. I know you'll need to allow yourself time to grieve. <offers hand to hold>

In other news, DS has pinkeye and a rotten cough. No preschool tomorrow so if MIL can't have him, I guess I'm taking a day off work hmm. If it'snot one thing, it's a dozen more.

cardamomginger Tue 05-Mar-13 15:51:53

Thanks jacks smile. Sorry about the ill DS. Yuck. Hope you don't come down with any of it!

I remember that thread in Feminism. I found it a bit upsetting in part. Can't remember now if I posted or not. But I do remember sort of wanting to post (more) but holding off. There are certain theoretical arguments (can't remember if they were posted on that thread, or whether I'd seen them elsewhere) about how modern obstetrics disempowers women giving birth and how it should basically butt out of what is a natural and beautiful process (OK, oversimplifying somewhat!). I didn't want to hear anyone raise that in response to my own experience.

I think what's so valuable about what we have here on this thread (and the prolapse thread elsewhere in General Health), is that we all come with our own actual experiences - to ask questions, try and help with answers, ask for and give advice, hand hold, cry, everything. And it's all from stuff that's REAL. Not theoretical. Not political. Not agenda-driven. And, for me, that's why some of these other threads upset me. We talk about how we actually feel. We don't tell people how they SHOULD be feeling, or how they COULD have felt, if they'd just decided to do things a different (and inherently) better way.

EauRouge Tue 05-Mar-13 16:58:48

That's right. We could talk until we're blue in the face about how and why the system is all wrong. But what happened happened and we can't change that. It's nice to be able to talk about it with people that don't tell you what you could/should have done. As if I haven't gone over it in my mind a million times already and thought of that hmm

WhodveThought Tue 05-Mar-13 19:31:18

Cardmomginger-DH and I have recently made the decision to only have the one child too. It hurts a lot, doesn't it? Especially when it feels as though the decision was forced by having such a horrible experience the first time round. wine for both of us!

Jacks- your MW can f*ck off. Avoiding a scar on your uterus. Pfft. What a lame excuse. Hope you are having a better day for you too.

Jacksmania Tue 05-Mar-13 21:54:53

wine all around, I think.

Thank goodness for this thread. It's such a relief to have that one place where I can really show how I feel, and where I feel understood. And where I don't have to be brave.

cardamomginger Tue 05-Mar-13 22:01:36

wine and xxx for all of us!

WhodveThought Wed 06-Mar-13 07:18:26

Jacks- "And where I don't have to be brave."

Yeah. Very true. The number of times I gloss over or deny what's going on, or make less of it...It's tiring.

I like this thread because you don't have to be the upbeat cheerful woman while you are actually the incontinent-scared-scarred-tired woman. You can just come here and be heard and get support. xx

cardamomginger Wed 06-Mar-13 14:11:29

I had a check up today 3 and a half weeks after surgery. I was TERRIFIED. But so far it all looks fine! I've got a thrush infection, which is why things have been so sore and stinging so much, but have pills for that, so nothing to worry about. There's quite a bit of swelling still, and obviously we won't have a proper idea of where things are at until about 7 months from now when all the stitches are finally dissolved and it's just me holding things up. But, for now, it all looks really good. We had a look with the ultrasound and the collagen mesh he'd used is nicely in place, which is great news. He got me to cough during the scan and we could see that things only moved a tiny amount. My surgeon was smiling away, almost bouncing in his chair with excitement . He pronounced my vagina and pelvic floor to be akin to that of a woman in her late teens or early 20s, who's never had children - not bad as I'm 41 and everything had prolapsed to all buggery .

And I got a hug from him! I know that a hug from a male gynae could be seen as not quite the done thing. But this was very appropriate and lovely!

Do I dare to let myself feel optimistic....????

EauRouge Wed 06-Mar-13 14:52:14

That's brilliant news! smile I'm really pleased it went well. The gynae was obviously very proud of his work!

cardamomginger Wed 06-Mar-13 14:58:30

Thank you! Yes, I think he is proud grin. If it's a job well done, then he's perfectly entitled to be!

Jacksmania Thu 07-Mar-13 15:56:56

CG, that's brilliant news!

Insecure24 Thu 07-Mar-13 16:49:33

Congrats carda! (my old name was first1 if that rings any bells. I remember we both had broken fanjos together!) x

cardamomginger Thu 07-Mar-13 18:25:04

Thanks Jacks and insecure (waves and blows kisses)! I'm EXHAUSTED and in much more pain today - but I was pretty much expecting to feel this way!! Have been resting as much as possible and watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer grin.

Jacksmania Thu 07-Mar-13 18:40:14

Oh, I love Buffy. She's so awesome grin

And I just re-read your post and I love that your gynae gave you a hug. That's really sweet.