measles

[Jimjams]

Has anyone's child had measles really midly? DS2 (17 months) has all the symptoms, but isn't particularly ill. He is still breast fed. I don't think its german measles as his brother had that 6 weeks ago- and the incubation period is 2 to 3 weeks- so he would have had it by now.

Just heard back from the doctors- I can pop him along to their out of hours surgery and they'll check him over.

Will report back.....

[Jimjams]

Well that was clear as mud! I am now very confused.

Dr said it couldn't be measles (before examining him) as he wasn't ill enough. I asked if it was possibly to get a very mild dose of a baby was still being breastfed and he said no (which kind of contradicts the argument that even if vaccination doesn't work totally any vaccinated child will only get a very mild case- but still).

So he said it might be rubella. I said "his elder brother had rubella 6 weeks ago" he said "oh its definitely rubella then". So I said "but i thought the incubation period was 2 to 3 weeks" he said "yes it is but maybe he got is somewhere else- or maybe its just a virus".

He asked whether he'd had MMR, I said no and so he said it must be rubella. - or maybe just a virus

Anyway I asked whether he should be quaratined and he said yes- so I said "5 days?" and he said "or 7 but there are no guarantees anyway so it doesn't really matter...."

???? All very confusing.

Anyway I don't think it is rubella, it hasn't followed the rubella pattern shown in books, ds1 has just had it (and I suspect ds2 had a case without a rash at the same time). if he was going to get rubella it would have been three weeks ago. The rash is a bit different as well.

So moral dilemma- do i ignore him, assume it could be measles and go into quarantine for 2 WEEKS!!!! (oh god), or do I assume its just a virus and start going out and about again as soon as he is better?

The friends I see most often have unvaccinated children.

Has anyone heard of mild doses of measles? if not I'll guess its just virus I suppose.

Confused of the south-west

[mears]

Babies who have viruses of any description may present with a rash. I remember ds no.2 being admitted with a rash (10 days after being discharged having had meningitis) - and then I was told that it was a rash associated with a virus of non-speific origin. He was not unwell as such but did have a high temperature.
The other times my children had extensive rash was when they had scarletina and needed antibiotics. It was diagnosed by looking at their throats. Again had high temperature with/without vomiting.

Only other time ds1 had a rash, despite being well, was when he had his first satsuma. I thought he might have measles but the doctor said that the tell-tale sign that it was an allergic respose was the way the rash went down his fingers. Not much help to you Jimjams, but you might want to look at his hands and think if there is anything new he has eated such as satsuma or strwaberries. Just a thought. Hope it resolves soon.

[Jimjams]

Thanks mears. I did wonder about an allergy- but the only thing it could be to is a new brand of raspberry youghurt. Checked his hands they're clear. Although he's not particularly ill, he has had a slight temeperature since Tuesday and he's grotty today. He also keeps rubbing his eyes and is a little snotty.

I suspect it is some random virus. I just don't want to sart a measles epidemic by waltzing into nursery with him when I drop off DS1

[Jimjams]

Hmmm well whatever it is DS1 is now getting it (heavy eyes, cold, runny nose and cough). He's had rubella so that's confirmed it's not that. He did have a measles jab, but knowing what I know now I'm not sure it was given at a very good time, so I wouldn't be surprised if it hadn't worked. Had a long search on the net and you can get mild measles, so I will try and have a nose in DS1's mouth for the diagnostic koplik's spots. He's looking a bit sicker than ds2. I suspect however that it's just a random virus, and unless DS1 suddenly develops obvious measles I will assume we don't need to be quarantined.

[easy]

JimJams
We had a similar experience about 8 months ago, just before ds was 3.

A bit off-colour, snotty and tired, highish temperature, rash mainly on his back but rest of body too.

I took him to doctor, who had a student in with him at the time. Dr asks student to examine ds, then asks her suggestions for diagnosis. She says "possibly measles ?"
Dr says "not likely, a child this age will have had MMR" shouldn't he have checked his records?

I leapt in to point out that he had not had MMR (you and I know why not), and got my usual lecture. EVENTUALLY Dr says "might be measles but I would expect him to be more poorly if it was, probably just a virus"

Isn't measles just a virus anyway?

Anyway, I asked about quarantine, should I keep ds off nursery, and dr said that he had probably already passed it on before becoming symptomatic, don't worry, and sent me away.

There had been a case of measles a couple of weeks previously, and I am inclined to think this may have been a mild case.

Like you tho', can't be sure. Hope both boys feel better soon.

LOL

[Jimjams]

Thanks for that easy! it's so hard to find sensible information. So many sites etc make out that a child can't have measles unless they are at deaths door! However I did find somewhere which said that people born prior to 1955 are assumed to be immune to measles as it was so virulent and widespread that all will have come into contact with it, and even if they didn't have a clinically recognisable disease they may have had a very mild or even an asymptomatic case.

The rash has come up in exactly the same order as measles (forehead and behind ears then onto body). I don't know. I suppose the only way to be sure would be if ds2 got measles at some stage in the future - then I would know this wasn't it.

The MMR line makes me laugh- it doesn't even work that well. In recent outbreaks 60% of measles cases have been in vaccinated children anyway.

I avoided the lecture- maybe because ds2 is still young enough to have not been called up for MMR yet.

Thanks for that though. Glad I'm not the only confused one

[sb34]

Message withdrawn

[Jimjams]

Thanks sb34. I'm still undecided- waiting to see if his unvaccinated playmates go down with it (if it's measles they probably will- not that we saw many people in his grizzly stage.) Mind you I did wander around Totnes with him on Thursday- the town where almost every child is unvaccinated so we'll see.....

I'm hoping it is measles as if it is he's escaped with a very mild dose and will be immune for life. I suspect it's just a random virus though. Although rash is fading in the measles order.

[Oakmaiden]

It makes the statistics about measles all a bit silly though, doesn't it? If the doctor can't be bothered to find out if it really is measles (which is easy enough to do - a mouth swab would detect it if it was)and many doctors won't investigate unless the child is really ill, then that means the "of 600 notified cases of measles last year, 10 had a bad outcome" means nothing - since there were potntially a far greater number of cases that weren't even investigated. All it really means is that "of the 600 cases that made children poorly enough to bother notifying, 10 had a bad outcome. Of course we have no idea what proportion of children who had measles this was, because we won't investgate unless children are really ill, because we don't want people to find out that a lot of children DO get mild cases of measles and that sometimes it isn't a big deal. We want them to think it is ALWAYS a big deal - that way they are far more liely to make the decisions we want them too...."

Oh, cynical me.

[Oakmaiden]

By the way the statistics I just used were made up.... (by me).

[Jimjams]

Oakmaiden - I've seen just as unbelievable stats used anyway Trawling through death stats (how lovely) it appears that in the USA in 1964 (the year before mass measles immunisation was introduced) there was 458083 cases of of measles resulting in 421 deaths- a death rate of 0.09% if I have done the maths correctly. I would assume it would be a fairly accurate figure as mealses was so common then that drs shouldn't have had any problems recognisng it. Of course mild cases may not have been reported so I guess the death rate could be even lower.

Of course the figures will be higher in malnourshed populations (especially if low in vitamin A which is the best treatment for measles- and has been shown to reduce both death and complication rate).

Which is fine- an extra 421 people alive in the states in 1964 could be alive today if they had been given measles vaccine (assuming it has a 100% success rate), but wth such a low death rate surely you have to be certain you're not introducing other serious side effects into the recipients. Whoops tripped and landed on my soap box again. I'm off.

[WideWebWitch]

Jimjams, aren't you tempted to push for an oral swab since you want to know whether it is measles or not? at your soapbox comment. Anyway, hope your boys are both better soon. Oakmaiden, yep, lies, damned lies etc

[Jimjams]

I know www- but can't be bothered to get into another battle wth drs.

Hope I didn't start a mass epidemic in Totnes on Thursday!

[MABS]

Jimjams - just seen this, how are the boys today ? Take care

[Marina]

Yes, hope they are both feeling better Jimjams. If you get it next maybe you can be surer it wasn't measles? There has been a ripe old selection of monster snotty viruses stalking the children and adults of London this spring - much, much worse than last year.

[Jimjams]

Well rash has gone in a measles order having hung around for a measles length of time. Ds1 seems to not be going down with anything now. I feel fine so goodness knows. My money's on a random virus. Or mild measles

One rather good side effect is that ds2 has been sleeping for hours during the day! And lying in in the morning.