Postponong immunisations until the new 5-in-1 vaccine is available

[tangerinecath]

DD is due her first round of immunisations in around 2 weeks' time - DH and I have decided to postpone them until the new 5-in-1 vaccine is available. I have done a lot of reading and listened to much advice before taking this decision, but given the facts as I see them I don't believe that we are putting DD's health at risk by postponing the vaccinations for the extra 4-6 weeks that our surgery tells me that we will have to wait. I thought I's share the info I put together with you, I'd appreciate any comments or further advice.

Meningitis C ? Spread by close contact with an infected person, via coughing, sneezing or kissing. 2 confirmed cases in infants less than 1 year old last year. Other strains of meningitis (especially MenB) far more prevalent. Mortality rate approx. 7%. Possibility of seizures, hearing loss, skin scars, limb loss or brain damage in survivors.

Whooping Cough (Pertussis) ? Spread by contact with an infected person, via coughing and sneezing. 111 confirmed cases reported last year in babies less than 1 year old. Mortality rate approx 0.2%. Half of babies who catch the disease are hospitalised.

HiB ? Spread by contact with an infected person, via coughing and sneezing. Causes diseases such as meningitis, eppiglottitis, septic arthritis, osteomyelitis, septicaemia, celullitis, pneumonia, pericarditis. 29 confirmed cases reported last year in infants of less than 1 year old. Mortality rate approx. 5%. Possibility of seizures, hearing loss, skin scars, limb loss or brain damage in survivors.

Tetanus ? Present in soil and manure, gets into the body through cuts and sores. No confirmed cases reported in babies under 1 year in 2002. Mortality rate is very low.

Diptheria ? Spread by contact with an infected person, via coughing and sneezing. 21 confirmed cases reported in 2002. Mortality rate 5-10%. Possibility of long term heart disease in survivors.

Polio ? Spread by contact with an infected person, via coughing and sneezing. Virtually eradicated worldwide due to vaccination programme (the last reported case in this country was in 1998). 0.1% of cases in children result in some paralysis (rate is higher in adults). Mortality rate very low.

Information gathered from the Health Protection Agency?s website at www.hpa.org.uk and the NHS?s immunisation website at www.immunisation.org.uk.

[Heathcliffscathy]

so we're talking about altogether around 200 babies being affected by the whole lot of these...i wonder how that figure stands up against the number of babies affected adversely by vaccination (some dying)? imo you're doing the right thing in delaying at the very least (so far i've chosen not to vaccinate my ds, now 10 months old).

[Davros]

Bloody coughing and sneezing has a lot to answer for! DH always avoids anyone who sneezes or coughs when we are anywhere and will slay anyone who comes to the house with a cold (sorry, er flu!)

[GeorginaA]

Bumping for the evening crowd on your behalf, tc

[stupidgirl]

I'm not going to get involved in this because the last vax thread I got involved in ended up getting quite nasty, but personally I don't like the idea of pumping 5 different diseases into a child in one go. That's a hell of a strain on the immune system.

[fuzzywuzzy]

I'm with stupidgirl on this one, when I read about the five in one the thought did occur to me as to how well researched this one is, or are our babies going to be the guinea pigs again. I'm due in October and the thought of pumping my tiny baby with so many chemicals in one go is terrifying me. I thought I had it sorted I was going to ask for infanrix and have the meningitis after two weeks as we did with dd but noooo now all this blows up....

[edam]

There is an advantage over the old 8, 12 and 16 week jabs in that the new ones don't contain mercury and the polio element is inactivated. Until now babies have been given 'live' polio which carries a risk of infecting anyone not immune to polio through eg. nappy changing. And injected with mercury, which the US has stopped using (in these jabs although is still there in others) and which the World Health Organisation is telling governments to withdraw. (And which the Food Standards Agency says is a such a risk for pregnant women that they should limit the amount of oily fish they eat...).

The Department of Health website you reference at the bottom says these new vaccs have been used in Canada for seven years with no safety problems. I think if they had been around when ds was having his first jabs I might have preferred them to the old DTwP he got, which did contain mercury.

So, if I was in your shoes, I'd probably wait for the new one.
HTH

[tangerinecath]

I can understand stupidgirl and fuzzywuzzy's feelings on the 5 in 1, but it has to be better than the current concoction. I don't see why you still can't insist on infanrix, fuzzywuzzy, surely it'll still be available?

[fuzzywuzzy]

tangerinecath I am considering it, but god the nurse made me feel like a criminal when I refused to allow her to give dd the meningitis vac as well as the others at the same time. She snarled at me for about ten minutes about how dd would be at risk and a risk to others..... I just felt so bad I was sooo glad dp was with me and utterly calm about our stance...
At the end of the day these are our babies and we have to live with the consequences of the decisions we make....

[Angeliz]

fuzzywuzzy, i'm with you on this. I am due again in Feb and my gut intsinct tells me to go with Infanrix. (dd had that one).
I don't even know if it will be available then but i will try my hardest .
It's one aspect of babydome i'm NOT looking forward to repeating

[Davros]

I think the advantage with the old ones is that you could split them up and spread them out which is what I did, and I got the ones without mercury anyway so, for me, the new ones would not be better but don't think what I did will be an option.

[IlanaK]

I have this problem too. Ds is now 9 weeks and I did not have him immunised at 8 weeks due to the news story about the mercury. I asked my GP for infranix and she said no. I wrote to her and received a letter back today which basically avoided the whole infranix thing and did not asnwer my querey about it at all. She basically reported what they are being told by the govt and that I could wait for the 5-in-1 but she advised immunising now. We are writing back to push for infranix but not sure what we will do. 5 at one time certainly seems a lot.

[Davros]

you can always pay privately for infanrix etc (at least at the moment I believe).

[tangerinecath]

I don't know if I am going to open up a whole can of worms here but I spoke to my HV today re. DD's vaccinations, mentioning infanrix as an option, and I was told that the NHS are discontinuing infanrix at the same time as the DTwP-Hib. The new vaccines will be used everywhere from 8th October at the latest and all old stock will be destroyed. Have a look here for more info (you'll need Adobe Acrobat to read it).

[Davros]

But don't they use it for the pre-school booster? Or is that Hiberix? OR are they going to give all children the full load again pre-school?

[karen99]

that was a very interesting link, tigercath. So what do babies receive for primary vacc's if parents do not want to consent to HIB? (this is not directed at you! just an observation in general) This was one of our problems and my 14mo ds still hasn't been vaccinated despite trying to get them done since he was 9mo.... (we're pro-vacc, but anti-thiomersal & hib) At the moment I've finally managed to get the surgery to agree to Infanrix, but looks like this vacc will be destroyed from Oct and what can I use to complete his course???? Drives me potty all of this..

[WideWebWitch]

It is so insulting the way many gps treat parents who ask for Infanrix. Makes me v cross.

[FairyMum]

The figure of how many babies seriously ill or dead from these illnesses wuld obviously be higher if the babies hadn't been vaccinated. Of course I will vaccinate mine!

[zebra]

Thanks for the link, TangerineCath.
Why are you anti-HIb jab, Karen99? DH had bad/scarey/awful pneumonia from it a few years ago, I had a bad cough for 5 weeks... whilst vaccinated DS was fine.

[karen99]

Hi zebra, we decided we weren't going to give ds hib or menc.. also I've heard too many cases of adverse affects after children are given the Hib booster. However, just looked at the 'new and improved' (?!) NHS website and it doesn't state anything about a Hib pre-school booster any more - here - or am I going blind? Hmmm, wonder why.. also found one line saying that "The best way to keep children protected against Hib in the long term is currently being reviewed". Strange.

[Davros]

Everyone seems to have known about Infanrix but there was also Hiberix, the non-thimerosil HIB. I gave my DD both of those, plus MenC and Polio. Even with a severely autistic 9 year old I would not leave her unvaccinated but I'm "lucky" that we don't think our DS was affected by immunisations, just didn't want to take any chances with DD.

[morocco]

I'm sooo confused - is the new jab the same as the one they give in France and other european countries as well as in Canada (read that it was on another thread) - if so, it might be that the vaccine packet actually contains the hib part separate to be combined just before the injection itself - my ds had infanrix-hib and that is what his vaccine was like (I had to buy it at the chemists)so if you wanted to avoid the hib it might still be possible? what it he new jab actually called?
just a thought - I'm getting so lost in this

[Jimjams]

morocco they give infanrix in France AFAIK- unless they've changed it recently.

[kbaby]

Im confused. Is the 5in1 better to give than the current immunisations. DD has had the 1st lot but i have since requested infatrix instead. Im waiting for a reply from my GP. If the answer is no do I wait until September and receive the new 5in1??

[Jimjams]

If you were planning to give all the other vax at the same time then you may as well hang on if you're not offered infanrix. if you were planning on splitting them then you would have to push for infanrix. The only other difference is in the polio vaccination. The UK dept of health has maintained for years the the killed vaccine isn't as effective (although they've obviously changed their minds on that one). Most other countries have said that the oral polio vaccine is dangerous as its been the main (only in last decade) cause of paralytic polio in countries such as the UK where polio no longer exists.

Funnily enough anthroposophical doctors who are a funny mix of alternative and orthodix medicine prefer the oral polio vaccine as it enters the body through the natural route and therefore stimulates the immune system in a "normal" fashion.

Swings and roundabouts as usual.

[kbaby]

Im new to all this so sorry for the questions.
Is it benificial to space the immunisations out and have menc one week and then polio another etc.

Also is there any research to prove that the 5in1 is safe to use
Thanks